Pope take on Potter - It's about time!

[Kolya]

News brief:
http://www.news24.com/News24/Entertainment/Abroad/0,,2-1225-1243_1737622,00.html

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't touch those books and wouldn't allow my kids to either.

[Lotar]

I have no problem with them...

[Kolya]

I have no problem with them...

I'm not going to argue with you Lotar, but I feel they are just a bit too "Dark" for me. I don't meddle with "Occultic" material, however innocent they look. My friend had a bad experience with a oweigi (sp) board, and I stay away from such stuff.
My step daughter is into New Age, and reads spell books all the time. I'm just not comfortable with that.

[Zacharias]

News brief:
http://www.news24.com/News24/Entertainment/Abroad/0,,2-1225-1243_1737622,00.html

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't touch those books and wouldn't allow my kids to either.

I'm not going to argue with you Lotar, but I feel they are just a bit too "Dark" for me. I don't meddle with "Occultic" material, however innocent they look. My friend had a bad experience with a oweigi (sp) board, and I stay away from such stuff.
My step daughter is into New Age, and reads spell books all the time. I'm just not comfortable with that.
I'm with you on this. I stay away from all "Occultic" material. :)

[ExOrienteLux]

I suppose you guys don't read Tolkien or Lewis either, do you?

-Philip.

[Padraig]

I suppose you guys don't read Tolkien or Lewis either, do you?

-Philip.
:thumbsup:

I suppose we're all doomed because at Orthodox seminaries - at St Tikhon's and St Vlad's, these books are really popular - at least with the seminarians that I know. I find that most people who don't like Harry Potter really haven't read them. We have a 5-year old daughter, and as soon as she's old enough to sit still for longer chapter books (she's a bit wiggly :) ) we'll be reading her these books along with Lewis and Tolkein. They are that great. I would certainly put Rowling in the same class as Lewis and Tolkein as a storyteller. The Potter Series, and Rowling personally, are heavily influenced by Narnia and Lord of the Rings

The reason they're popular is because they are good stories. We don't have many good stories now-a-days. So when one comes along, they fill the inherent need in the human condition for quality storytelling.

kevin

[Zacharias]

I suppose we're all doomed because at Orthodox seminaries - at St Tikhon's and St Vlad's, these books are really popular - at least with the seminarians that I know. I find that most people who don't like Harry Potter really haven't read them. We have a 5-year old daughter, and as soon as she's old enough to sit still for longer chapter books (she's a bit wiggly :) ) we'll be reading her these books along with Lewis and Tolkein. They are that great. I would certainly put Rowling in the same class as Lewis and Tolkein as a storyteller. The Potter Series, and Rowling personally, are heavily influenced by Narnia and Lord of the Rings
I have nothing against people who love them. Different people have different convictions. I personally don't wish to read them. :)

[Mary of Bethany]

I just finished reading the first 3 books, and am ready to start the 4th.

I love them!

Mary

[Northern Light]

Harry Potter Books are fantasy...just like many other children's books and TV shows. The books are well written, the plot is very good, and the characters talk and act like real kids. Maybe that's the main reason they are popular - they identify with the reader.

The main theme of the story is Good vs. Evil, and of course, good always triumphs over evil.

Harry Potter is not the only childrens books/movies that have wizards, magic, and strange creatures.

Care Bears had No Heart, The Hobbit had Grandulf, and not to mention the many Disney stories that have fantasy material....nothing is said about those.

Perhaps the Harry Potter series should be read before opinions are made.:)

[choirfiend]

2 more days til the next book!

These stories have nothing more to do with the genuine occult than Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, The Wizard of Oz, the Little Mermaid, or any other fairy tale that includes monsters, witches, magic, spells, etc. On the contrary, it displays magic as something that everyday magic people use to stir the soup while they're doing the laundry, and while there are those who would use it to harm, they are being valiantly opposed. I tell ya, if you think there might be problems with it, read just the first one yourself to see what the hubbub is about. Educate yourself, and do so with the blessing of your priest. These books are only under fire because they're so popular the world over--because of excellent plots, characters that you feel like you know, character development that leaves most adult novels behind, and the great mystery of Harry's past. If you have ever/will ever allow your kids to have anything to do with non-fiction, fantasy, science fiction, or fairy tales, then read Harry Potter and make an informed decision about whether it has anything to do with the occult.

[gord96]

i don't read them or have any desire to but really don't have a problem with them.....no different than LOTR or any other type fantasy book

[Lotar]

There's a book, written by an Orthodox Christian, about Christianity in Harry Potter.
The author was here in Riverside a few months back, when our parish helped sponsor a debate between him and a Baptist author at Cal Baptist University. Unfortunately I missed it. :(

[Rilian]

Here's an article (http://www.apostle1.com/12-13-2003-The%20Harry%20Potter%20Phenomenon%20and%20Orthodox%20Re.htm) written by Bishop Auxentios of Photiki that seems pretty interesting. I believe the bishop is from one of the very conservative Greek Old Calendar churches.

I think there are more important things out there to worry about than Harry Potter.

[Marjorie]

I LOVE Harry Potter and have been eagerly awaiting the 6th book for a long time. I said this on OBOB, but any books where the central mystery is not "magic" but instead the fact that self-sacrificing love saves above all (throughout the series it is repeated that Harry's mother's blood, given for love of him, protects him from evil), are okay by me. Rowling is a member of the Church of Scotland, believes in God, and apparently attends church pretty regularly.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Matrona]

I love Harry Potter. I have all the movies and books; I haven't ordered Half-Blood Prince yet though.

Harry is fine by me, as long as kids who read it are able to distinguish between magic and reality. If I had a kid who was taking it too seriously and becoming interested in the occult, I would just explain that Harry lives in a fantasy world, in the real world God doesn't give us powers like that, but the gifts he has granted us are much better than any spells.

[Rilian]

There's a book, written by an Orthodox Christian, about Christianity in Harry Potter.
The author was here in Riverside a few months back, when our parish helped sponsor a debate between him and a Baptist author at Cal Baptist University. Unfortunately I missed it. :(

Was it John Granger? The bishop mentions him in the article I posted and says he is a reader.

The fact is we should be concentrating on the real vehicle of Satan - The Incredible Mr. Limpet.

Don Knotts as a fish?

HERESY!

[Marjorie]

I love Harry Potter. I have all the movies and books; I haven't ordered Half-Blood Prince yet though.

Harry is fine by me, as long as kids who read it are able to distinguish between magic and reality. If I had a kid who was taking it too seriously and becoming interested in the occult, I would just explain that Harry lives in a fantasy world, in the real world God doesn't give us powers like that, but the gifts he has granted us are much better than any spells.

Word.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Lotar]

Was it John Granger? The bishop mentions him in the article I posted and says he is a reader.

The fact is we should be concentrating on the real vehicle of Satan - The Incredible Mr. Limpet.

Don Knotts as a fish?

HERESY!

Ya, that was the guy.

[Shubunkin]

I personally like the Harry Potter stories, but still believe it certainly is a parent's peragative to decided what is best for their own children. I'm sure some children can handle it as just a fantasy, and others may not as easily.

[Rilian]

Here's the book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1414300913/qid=1121364749/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_ur_1/104-7203351-1519920?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) and here's the guy (http://www.orthodoxspeakers.com/john%20granger.htm) that wrote it.

[Llauralin]

Here's the book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1414300913/qid=1121364749/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_ur_1/104-7203351-1519920?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) and here's the guy (http://www.orthodoxspeakers.com/john%20granger.htm) that wrote it.I have that book; it's pretty good, and if nothing else does a good job in showing how differetnly people can interperate the same thing, based on what they knew/thought/believed going into the encounter.

I actually was strongly opposed to Harry Potter...until I started reading one. Now I think they're really good, and would definatly let a kid read them once they're old enough. I won't be going to any midnight releases or anything, but I'm definatly interested in reading the new one. And teachers have a point: these books are not real occoult, are better than a lot of stuff out there, and are getting kids to read. Parents should have the right tokeep Harry out of their homes if they so choose, but don't really need to be so upset, when there are so very many genuenly bad influinces around.

[Dust and Ashes]

I've been thinking about picking up the first book and trying it. The only thing with me is I'm not really into campy type stuff so I'm not sure if I'd like them or not. Are they "children's books" or are they pretty much timeless entertainment for all ages?

[Photini]

I haven't allowed my children to watch or read the books either.

[Llauralin]

I've been thinking about picking up the first book and trying it. The only thing with me is I'm not really into campy type stuff so I'm not sure if I'd like them or not. Are they "children's books" or are they pretty much timeless entertainment for all ages?
Have you ever read the Hobbit? They're about that level, with the later booke being somewhat more mature than the first ones (I would let an eight year old read the first couple, but not the last two). They are noticibly children-oriented, but can be read and enjoyed by adults in the same manner as Narnia, the Hobbit, or George MacDonald's fairy tales. You might, however, be annoyed by the constant school settings, complete with immature jokes, cliques, and mean teachers. I was, but only a little; definatly not bad enough to make them unreadable.

Personally, I would reccomend that if you're not into the whole school thing, to read Goblet of Fire rather than Sorcerers Stone.

[Maximus]

With all due respect for the OP, why should we care - except out of curiosity - about what the Pope thinks?

I've read all but the last Potter book. I enjoyed all of them and the films, too, but I have mixed feelings about their suitability for children.

[Matrona]

I've been thinking about picking up the first book and trying it. The only thing with me is I'm not really into campy type stuff so I'm not sure if I'd like them or not. Are they "children's books" or are they pretty much timeless entertainment for all ages?

The books advance as Harry gets older. The first one is a little cheesy, but after that they get less so.

J.K. Rowling doesn't talk down to her readers--all of them are easy to read, but everyone can relate to them which is why they are so popular with adults, too.

The third and the fifth are my favorites.

[choirfiend]

I've been thinking about picking up the first book and trying it. The only thing with me is I'm not really into campy type stuff so I'm not sure if I'd like them or not. Are they "children's books" or are they pretty much timeless entertainment for all ages?


I didn't find them campy. They have adult vocabulary (great for increasing your children's vocab!), are artfully written, contain excellent characters, and show a spectrum of emotional and thematic material. These are not Nancy Drew or Hardy Boys books. The latest one was over 900 pages; I read it straight through for about 16 hours. Excellent.

[Matrona]

With all due respect for the OP, why should we care - except out of curiosity - about what the Pope thinks?

I sure don't care what he thinks. He's obviously never read them, anyway.

I've read all but the last Potter book. I enjoyed all of them and the films, too, but I have mixed feelings about their suitability for children.

They can be pretty dark in places, like the end of Goblet of Fire. But I don't think they're necessarily inappropriate for children. Kids do have to deal with tragedies sometimes, and as long as they're old enough to not be really disturbed or have nightmares, they should be allowed to read them. Plus, the books have good messages, like exposing how insane racism is, as well as the old British peerage system. Everything the Dursleys try to make Harry feel bad about, are precisely the things that make him special.

[Lotar]

I haven't allowed my children to watch or read the books either.

You don't even let them watch the books? Man, you're strict. :eek:

:sorry:

[Photini]

You don't even let them watch the books? Man, you're strict. :eek:

:sorry:
yup. Mean ol' mom that I am.

[VickiY]

Besides the good vs. evil, there are many excellent lessons in these books..such as "It's not your background, but the choices you make"...I can't wait for the new book!

[Photini]

. I would certainly put Rowling in the same class as Lewis and Tolkein as a storyteller. The Potter Series, and Rowling personally, are heavily influenced by Narnia and Lord of the Rings



I was reading an interview she did and the question of Tolkein came up. She stated that she would not put herself on the level with Tolkein because his mythology was completely new and imaginative. Whereas she tends to use "myths that people used to believe were true." (i.e. the Hand of Glory)

[Servus Iesu]

I was reading an interview she did and the question of Tolkein came up. She stated that she would not put herself on the level with Tolkein because his mythology was completely new and imaginative. Whereas she tends to use "myths that people used to believe were true." (i.e. the Hand of Glory)

She's right about that! I scoff at the notion that Harry Potter is comparable to J.R.R Tolkein's epic trilogy Lord or the Rings. He practically created the fantasy genre and his thought was trully original.

[Padraig]

I scoff at the notion that Harry Potter is comparable to J.R.R Tolkein's epic trilogy Lord or the Rings. He practically created the fantasy genre and his thought was trully original.

While the scale of the works might not be comparable - Tolkein created an entire mythos after all, the storytelling is comparable. And as far as good stories, and storytellers, go, they are equal. I'm sure Ms Rowling would not compare herself to Tolkein. I don't know anyone who would compare themselves to one of the greats.

I love Tolkein, and Middle-earth, but we must be honest. He incorporated elements of Celtic and Norse mythology that already existed. His creatures, etc are not original in and of themselves. They were centuries old when he used them in his world. He used them creatively and wonderfully to populate his rich world. But the world of Hogwartz is just as rich, and complex, if not as developed as Tolkein's. But then the purpose of the two are quite different. Tolkein was trying to create a mythology for England, a mythological past that he thought was lacking. Rowling is telling a simpler story, and uses a variation on our world to tell it, so there wasn't the need to develop the way Tolkein wanted to.

As far as characters go, some of the Potter characters are just as developed and complex as any of the Tolkein characters, possibly moreso because there are fewer of them. We shouldn't compare them though, that's not the intent of my earlier post. They are indeed in the same class of great storytellers. Their stories are different and serve different purposes for different people. They are, however, equal in quality and beauty.

kevin

[Kolya]

All I would like to add at the tail end here, is that I've never seen Gandalf casting spells to get even with anyone. He fought with Sauroman in self defence, but that's different.
I'm OK with Mythology, Sci-Fi, and Legend. But NOT with Demonology!

The plots and characters are so slick, because she admits herself that she "received" the idea for the whole series on one train ride. I wonder, from whom?
I came out of a church that is deceived because of a woman who wrote what she 'received'. I'm not about to go that route again.
Baroness Rowling (Who before this was a 'nothing' school teacher) is rich enough. She'll rise a notch in Forbes magazine after this new book. I however, will not contribute to her cause.

[Marjorie]

Harry doesn't cast spells to get even with anyone either. The magic just works as a metaphor for life in general. The bad guys use magic to hurt other people; the good guys use it to protect. Harry only fights in self-defense, or to save the lives of others. In fact, he hardly ever fights even when his life *is* in danger.

Paul McCartney said that he woke up one day with the tune to "Yesterday" in his head; does that mean we should forbid our children to hear that song?

I've come up for ideas for stories at different times... there are some stories where I can pinpoint moments when ideas came to me. That doesn't necessarily indicate demonic influence, just inspiration.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Xpycoctomos]

With all due respect for the OP, why should we care - except out of curiosity - about what the Pope thinks?

Why should we care about half the threads here in TAW? A lot of it's just pure curiosity and somethin' to talk about.

I agree with others, Harry Potter is fine. It should certainly be left up to the parent and no one should be criticized for not allowing their children to read that or Dr Suess. The Smurfs is based on occultic belifs (or rather pagan relgion... not sure as to the difference... either way it's godless) but I don't think the Smurfs is going to make any kid join the occult.

http://www.iamlost.com/features/smurfs/angry5.jpg

Or will they???

[Marjorie]

Hahahaha. I thought the Smurfs were communist...

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Kolya]

Why should we care about half the threads here in TAW? A lot of it's just pure curiosity and somethin' to talk about.

:thumbsup: 'nuff said!

I dunno, I'm not knocking anyone here who likes the rascal Harry, but different stokes for different folks.;)

[Xpycoctomos]

Before reading this, I thought (judging by the headline) that the Pope made a public speech or wrote an encyclycle against the book. I was wondering: why did he waste his time taking on some fictitious character from England rather than using this opportunity to take on the threat of a real character in Los Angelos?

After reading the news article the headline seems VERY misleading. All it was was that he (when He was Cardinal) simply wrote a letter of thanks and praise to a good Catholic woman who wrote a book criticizing the book. He didn't "take on" anything, he merely praised someone who did.

[Kolya]

That's journalism for ya!;)

I've asked Rob to close this OP.

Forgive me for my rant!

[Xpycoctomos]

Oh, I didn't think there was anything wrong with your OP at all. I really wasn't criticizing you at all.

[Marjorie]

Same here, Kolya... I bear you nor your opinions any ill will and just wanted to share a different view. I don't have a problem with this thread at all.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Kolya]

Thanks John and Marjorie (And all the other posters) for your input anyway. It's good to know what others are thinking.

[Photini]

All I would like to add at the tail end here, is that I've never seen Gandalf casting spells to get even with anyone. He fought with Sauroman in self defence, but that's different.
I'm OK with Mythology, Sci-Fi, and Legend. But NOT with Demonology!

The plots and characters are so slick, because she admits herself that she "received" the idea for the whole series on one train ride. I wonder, from whom?
I came out of a church that is deceived because of a woman who wrote what she 'received'. I'm not about to go that route again.
Baroness Rowling (Who before this was a 'nothing' school teacher) is rich enough. She'll rise a notch in Forbes magazine after this new book. I however, will not contribute to her cause.

I agree Kolya. But I never attempt to make anyone see my way. I just wish those of us who are uncomfortable with these books weren't scoffed at. I've based my decision on interviews mostly, and the way that Ms Rowling herself talks about the books. I have to make decisions to the best of my ability to what I feel is best for my children. They understand that I do NOT approve of these books....and while they have seen one of the movies (at daycare I think) they have not been swept away in the Harry Potter craze. They understand that I disapprove, and why. As far as good moral lessons and such.....we have a church that is FULL of the lives of the Saints. I encourage my children to read those, and they do, and they ENJOY them.

But yes, I'm a mean ol' momma.

P.S. I wasn't saying that anyone in here "scoffed" at me or anyone else. But the last time I onenly admitted I have a big problem with Harry Potter books, someone about ripped my head off, and made fun of me. That these books even have the ability to raise so many people's passions, is yet another reason why I do not approve of them in my home.

[RobNJ]

By request of the OP