I have offended again

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Someone has been offended by me saying that I could not find the invisible Church... I think whomever was offended is overly senative.

Forgive me...

[MrJim]

:wave:


Let me tell you someone else that couldn't find it;) .

I sat under a great Old Order River Brethren teacher named Myron Dietz for some classes about church history. Imagine an short stocky little balding fellow with a great white beard who liked to smack the podium when he talked.

Well he was going on about the teaching of the reformer regarding this very subject. "Luther said the church is invisible. Well, I don't know where this invisible church is!! <<smack podium and raise voice to shout>>" It was a great teaching session I still have on tape and he was a terrific anabaptist teacher.

Guess that's something else we have in common? We love the Lord Jesus Christ and believe the church is the visible Body of Christ.:cool:

Pardon me for interrupting your apology...I'll let you get on with it.

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I am not appolgizing... I am not removing my post....

I am standing my ground... this may be the end.

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Some people need to decide if they are mods or Christians... they are no synonymous.

Forgive me....

[choirfiend]

Outrageous. Bad manners in the name of Christ. And in the name of Orthodoxy.

[Matrona]

If someone chooses duties as a moderator over what's required of them as a Christian, they should not be on staff here.

This is a Christian forum. Mods should be Christians first and mods second.

[Marjorie]

I'm confused...

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Orthosdoxa]

I'm confused, too... Let's talk about cats instead!

I woke up this morning to a furry orange butt in my face. No, not my hubby, silly! My furbaby, Lenny! And he was just so happy, kneading and purring up a storm. I just wish he would face TOWARDS me instead of away from me during these wake up calls...

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I'm confused, too... Let's talk about cats instead!

I woke up this morning to a furry orange butt in my face. No, not my hubby, silly! My furbaby, Lenny! And he was just so happy, kneading and purring up a storm. I just wish he would face TOWARDS me instead of away from me during these wake up calls...

They all do that! Put that furry orange butt right in your nose... like you wan't it there.

Forgive....

[Orthosdoxa]

Yeah... I always know what's happening when I hear my hub shriek from the other room, "NOT THE PINKEYE! LENNY!!!"

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Yeah... I always know what's happening when I hear my hub shriek from the other room, "NOT THE PINKEYE! LENNY!!!"

I think it's the way they greet each other... and they find it pleasing....

Nice Butt huh? Wan't to see it again? Here smell this....

YUK!

[Melethiel]

If I could put in my two cents here... :sorry:

I'm not offended by your denial of the invisible church, in fact, I mostly agree with you. What does put me off is your vehemence that the Orthodox Church is the ONLY visible church, plus your assertions that a certain statement is correct because the Orthodox Church says so, with no sources to back up the claim. I admire your devotion to your church, but I came to CF wanting to learn more about the Orthodox Church, and your attitude is turning me away from Orthodoxy rather than pulling me toward it.

To the others who've been more open in discussion: :hug:

[Servus Iesu]

Orthodoxyusa,

Obviously we don't totally agree but I say keep speaking out until they forcibly silence you. That is what I try to do.

[Llauralin]

I won't debate here, but I actually agree with Flesh's objections, despite pretty much accepting the Orthodox claim to be the true Church, visible and one.

Edit: Not offended, just...I dunno...if that was how I'd found out about Orthodoxy I wouldn't have even thought about going to a service.

[OrthodoxyUSA]

If I could put in my two cents here... :sorry:

I'm not offended by your denial of the invisible church, in fact, I mostly agree with you. What does put me off is your vehemence that the Orthodox Church is the ONLY visible church, plus your assertions that a certain statement is correct because the Orthodox Church says so, with no sources to back up the claim. I admire your devotion to your church, but I came to CF wanting to learn more about the Orthodox Church, and your attitude is turning me away from Orthodoxy rather than pulling me toward it.

To the others who've been more open in discussion: :hug:

That's just too bad... we are not going to change the Truth to suit you sensability. Nor will I candycote it..

CF is attempting to put away all the Church Fathers and what the councils said in order to be Politically Correct... and you know what...

The Truth of the Church is not moldable. It is what it is... you either are or are not a Christian based on how you conform to Christ.

[Llauralin]

Edit: I was reading stuff into that "invisible church" thing in retrospect. Sorry, that's not what I was mad about...:(

[choirfiend]

Melathiel and Llauralin,

Please accept my apologies and do not let the Truth be ruined by the candycoat of bad taste. Chew it for a little bit and the rudeness comes right off and you get the glorious fulfillment of Christ. Disregard what should be disregarded.

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I won't debate here, but I actually agree with Flesh's objections, despite pretty much accepting the Orthodox claim to be the true Church, visible and one.

Edit: Not offended, just...I dunno...if that was how I'd found out about Orthodoxy I wouldn't have even thought about going to a service.

What about my rights? I am offended too... What about all of the Orthodox and Catholics who are sick and tired of hearing about a non existant invisble Church...

The very newness of the idea smacks of Heresy!

This is a two way street.

I am offended!

[OrthodoxyUSA]

OrthodoxyUSA:

Do you think the Church Fathers reacted to people's misunderstandings of their teachings by odopting a patrinizing, sneering tone, and mocking their opponents with "Darn! Lost that invisible church again!"

This isn't about what you meant, about God being present at the Liturgy; it's about your compleate lack of civility in that circumstance.

I am not into Ecumenicism... If you don't want the Truth so be it....

And as for the Church Fathers perhaps you should read a little more.... they got more than just a little upset!

The ECF's would be banned from CF as fast as you can post.... they would call a Heretic a Heretic.

[Llauralin]

What about my rights? I am offended too... What about all of the Orthodox and Catholics who are sick and tired of hearing about a non existant invisble Church...

The very newness of the idea smacks of Heresy!

This is a two way street.

I am offended!
You think this is about RIGHTS? Very American of you. Yeah, everything is about rights, and nothing is about obligation, or love, or forgiveness.

Fine, be offended. I really don't care.

[Llauralin]

I am not into Ecumenicism... If you don't want the Truth so be it....

And as for the Church Fathers perhaps you should read a little more.... they got more than just a little upset!

The ECF's would be banned from CF as fast as you can post.... they would call a Heretic a Heretic.
Perhaps I should.

ON the other hand, if they write like you, parhaps I do not wish to anymore.

[choirfiend]

I dont see many non Orthodox coming here and talking about an invisible church. I didnt see you making an argument for the Church, either. What good do your actions accomplish? Do you feel more self-satisfied? Assured yourself of your Orthodoxy?

[Shubunkin]

The Truth of the Church is not moldable. It is what it is... you either are or are not a Christian based on how you conform to Christ.

You have been reading my thoughts!! :sorry:

oopss.... forgive me too... :holy: I get too highly excited at times. :)

[OrthodoxyUSA]

You think this is about RIGHTS? Very American of you. Yeah, everything is about rights, and nothing is about obligation, or love, or forgiveness.

Fine, be offended. I really don't care.

My obligation is to Christ and the Church, not to CF.... the person who was ofended by my post went screaming about his being offended... well I'm offended too.

You want forgiveness.... then repent. As for Love it comes in tough packages sometimes.

[Servus Iesu]

I am not into Ecumenicism... If you don't want the Truth so be it....

And as for the Church Fathers perhaps you should read a little more.... they got more than just a little upset!

The ECF's would be banned from CF as fast as you can post.... they would call a Heretic a Heretic.

Brother,

Read St. Jerome's Against Helvidius... you are tame compared to St. Jerome.

[choirfiend]

And it can come so utterly distorted that it is unrecognizable. Is it love then?

[Servus Iesu]

With that said I don't think we should offend Protestants unnecessarily... but in some cases it is impossible.

[Llauralin]

the person who was ofended by my post went screaming about his being offended... well I'm offended too.
Did he...I guess I missed that part...:scratch:

[choirfiend]

I'm out. May god forgive us all for threads like this one and the ones it addresses.

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I dont see many non Orthodox coming here and talking about an invisible church. I didnt see you making an argument for the Church, either. What good do your actions accomplish? Do you feel more self-satisfied? Assured yourself of your Orthodoxy?

This took place in GT not TAW... Have you been following my posts?

I opened a friendly thread inviting everyone to Divine Liturgy.... it was attacked.

I don't think you've been around long enough to judge what I am doing.

Thanks for your opinion...

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Brother,

Read St. Jerome's Against Helvidius... you are tame compared to St. Jerome.

And he was a Saint.

[Llauralin]

Brother,

Read St. Jerome's Against Helvidius... you are tame compared to St. Jerome.
He went around screaming "I AM OFFENDED!!!" everytime he met a heretic?

Nope, definatly not reading him.

[OrthodoxyUSA]

He went around screaming "I AM OFFENDED!!!" everytime he met a heretic?

Nope, definatly not reading him.

You can alway live with your head in the sand....

[Orthosdoxa]

Awww... Lenny is being such a love! He loves to be on my neck, curling around my face and purring up a storm!

Orange cats are the best!

[OrthodoxyUSA]

St. Nicholas, the very Saint who we have modeled Santa Clause after slapped Arius and knocked him out of his chair.

HERETIC! SON OF THE DEVIL! I believe were his words!

[choirfiend]

This took place in GT not TAW... Have you been following my posts?

I opened a friendly thread inviting everyone to Divine Liturgy.... it was attacked.

I don't think you've been around long enough to judge what I am doing.

Thanks for your opinion...

Yes, I read all your posts. I only need to look to your immediate actions, and those are all I have an opinion concerning.

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always preserves."

Lord, have mercy!

[Llauralin]

It's nice to hear you've given up on that whole "We do not know where the church is not, only where it is" thing, and become a saint.

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Yes, I read all your posts. I only need to look to your immediate actions, and those are all I have an opinion concerning.

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always preserves."

Lord, have mercy!


You are obviously a Dove... and I appreciate that... but I am a Hawk.

I hope you can find an appreciation for that as well.

[Shubunkin]

Awww... Lenny is being such a love! He loves to be on my neck, curling around my face and purring up a storm!

Orange cats are the best!

I love orange cats too (actually know as "red" in the fancy)... but now we have a black smoke, and he acts very much like your Lenny does. :)

[choirfiend]

And hawks kill doves.

[Shubunkin]

I never heard of an "invisible church" ... this is all very confusing to me. :confused:

[OrthodoxyUSA]

It's nice to hear you've given up on that whole "We do not know where the church is not, only where it is" thing, and become a saint.

What makes you think I've changed at all?

"We do not know where the church is not, only where it is" is still a true statement.

[Melethiel]

I'm not against calling a heretic a heretic, and using strong words to do so. Heck, Luther was known for mouthing people off. (And don't get into whether or not Luther was a heretic please.)
But it would be nice if when you scream heretic to have something to back it up. Scripture, ECF's, whatever. Simply saying "you're wrong because my church says so" is not going to make people inclined to listen to you, or consider why whatever point it is might be wrong. You might know your church's teachings and the reasoning behind them, but most other do not.

[OrthodoxyUSA]

And hawks kill doves.

Don't feel threatened...

I just don't back down. It's not in my nature. Surely you have enough Orthodox in you to know that it takes both kinds.

[choirfiend]

And the Holy Spirit, in the form of a dove, confirmed the truthfulness of His word...

aaaaaand, thats really it.

[Melethiel]

I have a cat that's kind of an orange-brown color. Cats rock. :D

[gzt]

Just stop it, all of you.

[Llauralin]

...

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I'm not against calling a heretic a heretic, and using strong words to do so. Heck, Luther was known for mouthing people off. (And don't get into whether or not Luther was a heretic please.)
But it would be nice if when you scream heretic to have something to back it up. Scripture, ECF's, whatever. Simply saying "you're wrong because my church says so" is not going to make people inclined to listen to you, or consider why whatever point it is might be wrong. You might know your church's teachings and the reasoning behind them, but most other do not.

Hey, I like Luther for the most part... I think he was used as a scapegoat.

Did I scream Heretic?

I made a joke about not being able to find the invisable Church.

What's to back up?

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Possibly because you were sneering at people who were saying that they believe God to be at their services also. Then, rather than explaining what might possibly be different about the Liturgy, you were offended at their attempts to defend themselves.

HORSEPUCKY.... SHOW ME WHERE I SNEERED AT ANYONE OR WHERE I STATED THAT GOD WAS NOT PRESENT IN THEIR SERVICES.

THAT IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE....

YOU JUST MADE MY IGNORE LIST.

[Shubunkin]

Hey, I like Luther for the most part... I think he was used as a scapegoat.

Did I scream Heretic?

I made a joke about not being able to find the invisable Church.

What's to back up?


I just ran a Strong's search, and it does not show up there, so there is no "invisible church" mentioned in the Bible. 'Nuff said. :crosseo:

[Llauralin]

I made a joke about not being able to find the invisable Church.

What's to back up?
Edit: The rage with with you greeted the response

[Shubunkin]

I have a cat that's kind of an orange-brown color. Cats rock. :D

They sure do. ^_^

[Melethiel]

Hey, I like Luther for the most part... I think he was used as a scapegoat.

Did I scream Heretic?

I made a joke about not being able to find the invisable Church.

What's to back up?
Making a general observation. :sorry:

I like your joke about the invisible church...can I join you in bumping into the side of the hill next time? :sorry:

[Melethiel]

They sure do. ^_^
I have an adorable kitten who's a few months old. He is really fluffy. ^_^

[Llauralin]

HORSEPUCKY.... SHOW ME WHERE I SNEERED AT ANYONE OR WHERE I STATED THAT GOD WAS NOT PRESENT IN THEIR SERVICES.

THAT IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE....

YOU JUST MADE MY IGNORE LIST.
Two minutes ago when you said that I was sticking my head in the sand, that any disagreement was offensive, that you could say anything you like, and call anyone you like heretical because some saint smacked some other saint.

Thank you for the ignore. Seriously.

[Llauralin]

Making a general observation. :sorry:

I like your joke about the invisible church...can I join you in bumping into the side of the hill next time? :sorry:

I actually liked it too. Until this thread, that is.

[Melethiel]

Two minutes ago when you said that I was sticking my head in the sand, that any disagreement was offensive, that you could say anything you like, and call anyone you like heretical because some saint smacked some other saint.

Thank you for the ignore. Seriously.
Arius wasn't a saint. ;)

[OrthodoxyUSA]

You could start with explaining what you mean when you say that "the Church is visible and one."

Or with actually saying why you do not believe there to bean invisible church.

Or even by clarifying what might be meant by "invisible church," what terms may be better, and engaging in a rational discussion neither watering down your own beliefs nor attacking the intelligence of your opponents.

I MADE A JOKE!

I was demonstrating humor... making light of a situation

You are turning it into to something that it wasn't.

You want to get into a discussion about the invisible Church? It belongs in it's own thread... We have had so many threads on that it's not funny...

The thread I created was an open invitation to worship at Divine Liturgy.

[Shubunkin]

Just stop it, all of you.


Yeah, the subject of cats is pretty hard to take most of the time. :eek:

[Shubunkin]

I have an adorable kitten who's a few months old. He is really fluffy. ^_^

I have a cat that just turned 1 year old, and he has the fluffiest, l-o-n-g-e-s-t tail I have ever seen. He uses this tail of his as a weapon. If we pick him up and he doesn't want to go outside, or wherever we are taking him too... he WHAPS us at the side of our faces with it. :o

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Two minutes ago when you said that I was sticking my head in the sand, that any disagreement was offensive, that you could say anything you like, and call anyone you like heretical because some saint smacked some other saint.

Thank you for the ignore. Seriously.

Are you going to show me or not?

[Melethiel]

Yeah, the subject of cats is pretty hard to take most of the time. :eek:
Don't you know cats are pure evil? :eek: ;)

[Servus Iesu]

I'm not much of a cat person. But I love puppies... especially black labs and golden retrievers. There is nothing better than a dog though that can knock you off your feet and then slobber all over you to show his affection.

[Llauralin]

The thread I created was an open invitation to worship at Divine Liturgy.
You started that thread on the GT board!

[Melethiel]

I have a cat that just turned 1 year old, and he has the fluffiest, l-o-n-g-e-s-t tail I have ever seen. He uses this tail of his as a weapon. If we pick him up and he doesn't want to go outside, or wherever we are taking him too... he WHAPS us at the side of our faces with it. :o
Nice. How long is his tail?

[OrthodoxyUSA]

You started that thread on the GT board!

And?

[Llauralin]

Are you going to show me or not?
Actually, I'm going to leave this thread before I get booted out of TAW.

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I Love cats....

[Melethiel]

If I pick my kitty up and he doesn't want to be picked up, he just kind of twists around and jumps out of my arms. :P

[Shubunkin]

Don't you know cats are pure evil? :eek: ;)

That is what my hubby keeps telling me. Just because my cat (one I used to have) tried to walk into a burning fireplace. Hubby said he was just homesick. :D ... well I caught him before he got too far.

[Shubunkin]

I'm not much of a cat person. But I love puppies... especially black labs and golden retrievers. There is nothing better than a dog though that can knock you off your feet and then slobber all over you to show his affection.

I love doggies too, I have two dogs. :) Both are rescues, and I only adopt rescues. :)

[Llauralin]

I've got a cute fat black cat.... He's more into sitting on my chest breathing in my face, rather than the but rubbing thing, though.

[Shubunkin]

Nice. How long is his tail?


14 1/2 inches long, and I believe it is actually longer than he is. :sorry:

[Melethiel]

Dogs are okay. My old neighbor has two adorable little Pekingese dogs who are just awesome. :D

[Melethiel]

14 1/2 inches long, and I believe it is actually longer than he is. :sorry:
Wow...that's some tail. Two of my cats have really short tails, only about 2 inches, and really bushy. They somewhat resemble the tail of a bobcat. My kitten just has a normal old tail. ^_^

[Orthosdoxa]

High five sister! I only adopt rescues, as well. Note the web address under my name.

I saved Lenny and another orange dweeb, Mouse, just days before they were to be euthanized, and they are truly the joy of our lives. They bring us constant entertainment, and hub and I have tons of inside jokes related to cat behaviours, so you might even say they've helped our marriage. Guido was advertised in the paper as needing a new home by a family that was moving, and Herman... well, that was on a pure whim, from a different shelter. Three days later, he gave me a nasty bite that resulted in a serious case of cellulitis. I was on an IV for 3 days and had to have numerous shots in the hiney. Luckily, we forgave him, and he's still part of the family.

Now I just need to get a dog to make it perfect! I'm thinking Boston terrier... or any shelter mutt of about that size...

[Shubunkin]

I Love cats....

Me too. ^_^

Hubby claims my cats have little red devil suits on under that fur. They also hide their horns....somewhere between their ears? :eek:

[Shubunkin]

Dogs are okay. My old neighbor has two adorable little Pekingese dogs who are just awesome. :D


I love Pekingnese, my mother used to have one. I'd love to get one someday, if possible a rescue, of course. :)

[Rilian]

I love Pekingnese, my mother used to have one. I'd love to get one someday, if possible a rescue, of course. :)

My wife and kids are at my in laws right now and one of my wifes cousins has a Pekingnese which apparently both kids have now fallen in love with and can't stop talking about.

I think there may be a dog in our future.

[Shubunkin]

High five sister! I only adopt rescues, as well. Note the web address under my name.

I saved Lenny and another orange dweeb, Mouse, just days before they were to be euthanized, and they are truly the joy of our lives. They bring us constant entertainment, and hub and I have tons of inside jokes related to cat behaviours, so you might even say they've helped our marriage. Guido was advertised in the paper as needing a new home by a family that was moving, and Herman... well, that was on a pure whim, from a different shelter. Three days later, he gave me a nasty bite that resulted in a serious case of cellulitis. I was on an IV for 3 days and had to have numerous shots in the hiney. Luckily, we forgave him, and he's still part of the family.

Now I just need to get a dog to make it perfect! I'm thinking Boston terrier... or any shelter mutt of about that size...

Wow, that's terrific!! I have some contacts with the Dandie Dinmont Terrier rescues from puppy mills, and I have a Dandie. They are the sweetest dogs ever (in my opinion, of course)... stubborn, and a lot like Pekingese. I think small terriers are the best ... and of course I'm severely prejudiced.. . :D

[Shubunkin]

My wife and kids are at my in laws right now and one of my wifes cousins has a Pekingnese which apparently both kids have now fallen in love with and can't stop talking about.

I think there may be a dog in our future.

That's super! :D

[Orthosdoxa]

Char... are you the user formerly known as Paisley Rose?

[Melethiel]

My cats are all strays that have been hanging around for a couple of years. (We live in the country, surrounded by woods.)

[Shubunkin]

Char... are you the user formerly known as Paisley Rose?

Yep...lost the password for a while...

[Orthosdoxa]

We've got some strays, too, Mel.... Ommie, Softie, and Expostilarion are our most frequent visitors, then we've got a few others who show up every few days to eat that we haven't named yet. I love feeding hungry kitties with no home - I can't solve all the world's problems, but I can at least make life a little more tolerable for some of God's cuddliest creatures...

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Fruit Loop (my cat) just climbed up in my lap...purr purrr purrr

[gord96]

i don't like cats....how about dogs??? ;)

anyway OrthodoxyUSA......stand your ground mate......

[Orthosdoxa]

Char, Rose, whoever you are, that's wonderful!!!! I remember when you came here as an inquirer, and now you've got an Orthodox symbol by your name!!! :clap: Did you announce that you'd changed names, or did I just miss the boat somewhere? :blush:

[Melethiel]

Our strays are practically house cats now. Especially the kittens that are completely used to people. The only difference is that they stay outside and they know how to hunt. :D

[Shubunkin]

Char, Rose, whoever you are, that's wonderful!!!! I remember when you came here as an inquirer, and now you've got an Orthodox symbol by your name!!! :clap: Did you announce that you'd changed names, or did I just miss the boat somewhere? :blush:

No I guess I didn't announce that... but didn't think I'd posted much here...maybe more than I remembered? Anyway, it seems the password to the Paisley name is still lost. It won't come through the email either. :( Oh well...

[Orthosdoxa]

Well, you posted enough for me to remember you as someone seeking Orthodoxy, then when I saw your website, I knew. :)

Welcome home!!! Are you a catechumen now?

[Orthosdoxa]

Dogs are good too, but I think you're outnumbered here, Gord...we're cat folk. :)

[Llauralin]

Our strays are practically house cats now. Especially the kittens that are completely used to people. The only difference is that they stay outside and they know how to hunt. :D
So's ours; we found it in the street outside my dad's work one day, and just took it home. Now he's so fat he can barely hunt though. The one that grew up a housecat was better; he even brought us home a live King Snake, which we nursed ack to health. :)

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Dog's aren't allowed in the Nave... Cats are....

Na Na....

[Rilian]

Many years Charitina.

Welcome back.

[Shubunkin]

Well, you posted enough for me to remember you as someone seeking Orthodoxy, then when I saw your website, I knew. :)

Welcome home!!! Are you a catechumen now?

Not quite...but I was doing a favor for our Lutheran church and was holding off inquiring to the Orthodox church here. Now I'm more positive than ever. Perhaps I can tell the story here about it someday...and hope it doesn't get too...well, you know ... anti-Lutheran! :o It's awful.

[Shubunkin]

We've got some strays, too, Mel.... Ommie, Softie, and Expostilarion are our most frequent visitors, then we've got a few others who show up every few days to eat that we haven't named yet. I love feeding hungry kitties with no home - I can't solve all the world's problems, but I can at least make life a little more tolerable for some of God's cuddliest creatures...


I have a neighbor lady who does this. I have to admire her consistent help with that as she walks to the park with a small cart full of catfood. We leave catfood out too, and the neighborhood strays come and eat there in the back, even though my dogs will have none of it. They are indoors most of the time anyway!

[Shubunkin]

Many years Charitina.

Welcome back.

Ah, thank you so much, Rilian. :)

[drewmeister2]

Someone has been offended by me saying that I could not find the invisible Church... I think whomever was offended is overly senative.

Forgive me...

Forgive my stupidity, but what is the invisible Church? :scratch:

[Shubunkin]

Dogs are good too, but I think you're outnumbered here, Gord...we're cat folk. :)

I have a Border Collie who adores the cat... then the Dandie thinks all cats are vermin...so we do have an interesting household here.

[Shubunkin]

Fruit Loop (my cat) just climbed up in my lap...purr purrr purrr

Good name for a cat. I dare not say my cat's name... :o oh...what the hay... his name is Calvin. And no, he isn't a Calvinist!! ^_^ :P

[Shubunkin]

Char, Rose, whoever you are, that's wonderful!!!! I remember when you came here as an inquirer, and now you've got an Orthodox symbol by your name!!! :clap: Did you announce that you'd changed names, or did I just miss the boat somewhere? :blush:

Actually, my real name is Charlene. You can call me Char, lots of my friends do. :hug:

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Forgive my stupidity, but what is the invisible Church? :scratch:

You know what I'm going to let someone else who is not so upset answer the question....

Forgive me...

[gord96]

wouldn't dislike cats so much if I wasn't brutally allergic to them.....they can ruin my night right quick......even if I met the most perfect woman in the world, if she had a cat, I would be outa there......

[Shubunkin]

You know what I'm going to let someone else who is not so upset answer the question....

Forgive me...

Right on... :hug:

[Matrona]

Many years, Charitina! :)

[Shubunkin]

wouldn't dislike cats so much if I wasn't brutally allergic to them.....they can ruin my night right quick......even if I met the most perfect woman in the world, if she had a cat, I would be outa there......

How about if she had a Sphynx? you know... the hairless variety? That is what my cat is, only he has hair (an anomalie)... :D

[Shubunkin]

Many years, Charitina! :)

Thank you so much Matrona! :hug:

[gord96]

How about if she had a Sphynx? you know... the hairless variety? That is what my cat is, only he has hair (an anomalie)... :D

i heard cat allergies are caused more by their saliva then hair so probably no :sick:

[Shubunkin]

i heard cat allergies are caused more by their saliva then hair so probably no :sick:

I've heard it's both ways, either or... but I always say everyone is allergic to cat hair.. I know it causes me to sneeze from time to time. There are other things that cause intense allergic reactions in me, and as you say an all night long type of thing... so I know what you mean about that. Yeah, stay away from that perfect woman with a cat!! ;)

[Marjorie]

Perhaps I should.

ON the other hand, if they write like you, parhaps I do not wish to anymore.

Oh, please read them. Just not with reference to anything he or me or anyone else tells you about them. They're wonderful without recommendation or warning.

As for this whole thing, I am confused as to what started this and what is going on, and I dislike anyone making fun of anyone else, though I will say that it's quite clear to Orthodox Christians that the one visible Church is the one that, for the past few centuries, has been termed the Orthodox Church, which is to say the Church involved in the 1054 conflict which survived in the Eastern part of Christendom. That being said, I don't think saying that people outside this visible Church may be saved implies an invisible Church. It just means that God is merciful, period, and I don't feel need to assign terminology to that.

But again I reject any rudeness in the name of righteous anger. There is a difference... and the Church Fathers recognized it.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Xpycoctomos]

People need to lighten up, desensatise a bit let people express themselves and use TAW as a good way to not be so easily offended. Things are too PC around here. If a simple funny comment poses a huge stumbling block for someone... well, ther is a lot more in store for them should they continue. The Orthodox Church tends not to beat around the bush... and we like humor :)

John (haghenschlapfter.com)

[Lotar]

Someone has been offended by me saying that I could not find the invisible Church... I think whomever was offended is overly senative.

Forgive me...

I got a "one last chance" warning for making a joke about that... :scratch:

These forums are getting weird. You never know what will offend people. :doh:

[Llauralin]

People need to lighten up, desensatise a bit let people express themselves and use TAW as a good way to not be so easily offended. Things are too PC around here. If a simple funny comment poses a huge stumbling block for someone... well, ther is a lot more in store for them should they continue. The Orthodox Church tends not to beat around the bush... and we like humor :)

John
I didn't actually mean in my previous comments that I was actually in any way offended by that joke, and I'm sorry for saying so, BTW. I actually thought it was funny. I was reacting to:

I am offened that you believe the Church is Invisible.

I am offened!

I am offened!

I am offened!

You mock the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and you want me to take a back seat to your offense?

SHAME ON YOU!

NO! THE CHURCH IS NOT AND NEVER SHALL BE INVISIBLE!

YOU CAN CLOSE MY ACCOUNT ON IT IF YOU WISH....BUT I WILL "NEVER" DENY MY FAITH!
Followed quickly by the assertion of a certain right to be offended.

I'm sorry for the argument that followed, everyone. It's not what I meant. Forgive me.:(

[Marjorie]

I'm offended by this whole thread.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Xpycoctomos]

I got a "one last chance" warning for making a joke about that... :scratch:

These forums are getting weird. You never know what will offend people. :doh:

agreed. I like it here... I'll just ride this out as long as it lasts.

However... a few things I would like to point out. We need to realize that CF is basically a protestant domain of which Catholics and Orthodox are the minority. It is difficult for most protestants to understand what we mean when we say we are the True Visible Church in a good light. this forum is run by protestants and created by Erwin (who, I assume is a protestant). It only makes sense that it would be run from a protestant mentality. The Apostolic mindset is so contrary to the protestant mindset. We cannot expect most protestants to understand and completely agree with the idea of ONE VISIBLE Church... or else they would be Catholic or Orthodox. So, we cannot expect them to run it with a special sensitivity towards a mentality they do not understand. I must admit. From a typical protestant POV (of those protestants that do not have the idea of ONE UNITED VISIBLE CHURCH) it would be wrong, inconsistant and arrogant for one of these Churches to claim the same as we because their understanding of the nature of the Church does not warrant such a claim that such a Church exists except that invisible intangeable Church that no one can claim.

So basically, despite what may seem to some as an arrogant tone, I am saying so as to defend Erwin and others efforts to censure what they MAY see as arrogant being that they do not understand our view of the Church. The simple fact is. Our (Catholics and Orthodox) concept of the Church is not the same as that of CFs. There is not really,as far as I see, a legitmate place here for us to freely discuss our views on things with out fear of censure. Now, it seems that they have turned a blind eye to our rhetoric, but tomorrow they could decide to step up the censuring... or not. And that's alright. I say we Orthdoox and Catholics be Orthodox and Catholics and express the Truth as our Churches have taught us and stay here as long as CF will have us. In such the case that they will not (unless we express not Apostolic thought) we will find another home. No hard feelings. Just reality: we simply don't view the Church in the same way.

John

PS: I realize that there are exceptions to the "Protestants" I mention but this is mostly on an idividual rather than denominational level. For those protestants who believe that there is A visible Church that was set up as the Pillar and Ground of Truth and that Truth is not relative.... I welcome you to TAW. For those who do not, you are equally welcome but please understand that while our beliefs may not be appealing to you, they are our beliefs and this... so far, is our home :)

[Marjorie]

I think we're all kind of taking this too seriously... (this is not directed at any specific post or poster)... none of us is John Chrysostom, no evil empress is banishing us... it's a messageboard. We're here just because someone else is letting us, and no one is asking us to renounce our faith, and if they do then obviously we'll all leave. But no one here is a martyr or (on the other hand) a Christlike figure suffering in the face of intolerable arrogance... we're just bickering children-- safe, comfortable, smug-- myself first of all.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Lotar]

Sorry John, but think that is total donkey chips. (can I say that? :P )

CF was created as a merger between a Catholic run forum and a Protestant run forum. For some reason people are forgeting that. Sure it's all run by Erwin now, but it was built on this principle, and he certainly recieves a fair share of donations from Catholic and Orthodox users.

[Xpycoctomos]

I didn't actually mean in my previous comments that I was actually in any way offended by that joke, and I'm sorry for saying so, BTW. I actually thought it was funny. I was reacting to:


Followed quickly by the assertion of a certain right to be offended.

I'm sorry for the argument that followed, everyone. It's not what I meant. Forgive me.:(

I understood what you meant and I wasn't referring to you. I do understand that there is a line between being rude and just sticking up for the truth without beating aroudn the bush. I just think that people can deal with it without mods a lot of times. Not that I've never used a mod... but that was generally when a guest is overstepping his or her bounds here in TAW.. I think that was once, and I made it clear that I didn't want this person to get a warning... just bring it to their attention for the posters own good.

John

[Marjorie]

Sorry John, but think that is total donkey chips. (can I say that? :P )

CF was created as a merger between a Catholic run forum and a Protestant run forum. For some reason people are forgeting that. Sure it's all run by Erwin now, but it was built on this principle, and he certainly recieves a fair share of donations from Catholic and Orthodox users.

Really? I didn't know that.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[gzt]

Nonsense! We're all very important martyrs here. We'll go down in history if they alter their terms of service ever-so-slightly!

[Xpycoctomos]

Sorry John, but think that is total donkey chips. (can I say that? :P )

CF was created as a merger between a Catholic run forum and a Protestant run forum. For some reason people are forgeting that. Sure it's all run by Erwin now, but it was built on this principle, and he certainly recieves a fair share of donations from Catholic and Orthodox users.

Oh.. I didn't know that. In that case... you're correct. But, I was offended by that, so I will have to report you.

John

PS: and the donations thing is a VERY good point... I think Ill erase what I wrote :)

[Lotar]

Oh.. I didn't know that. In that case... you're correct. But, I was offended by that, so I will have to report you.

John

PS: and the donations thing is a VERY good point... I think Ill erase what I wrote :)

That's me. Say the truth in the most offensive way possible. You'll know I'm right, but you'll hate me for it. :P

[Kolya]

Guys,
This thread stinks. What have we all achieved using up this bandwidth?
May I ask a pointed question? If our Lord and Savior were to "Open the door" here and "Walk in on us" cyberspace speaking, and asked us what the Primary issue was we were debating, what would you tell Him? Is it Really necessary to 'defend' the truth? The Truth needs no defence. It stands immutable. Scoffers can rail against it all they want, it won't change. Martyrs went to their Maker because the Truth can't change, never will, and does not need defending.
But, argument never won anyone to Christ. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. It is His work to convict us of Truth. We shall state the Truth, we shall stand by it, but it needs no defence.
If someone does not accept your point of view, leave that to the Holy Spirit to work out. If you've planted a seed of Truth in Love, it will germinate and grow. If you plant seeds of Truth with argument, it only falls on the "Hard Ground", and is lost.

Just my 2cents - I'm leaving this thread.
Peace be to you.

BTW OUSA, your invitation did bear fruit. Someone is here asking about Divine Liturgy. Your intentions were good, and God can make everything right.:)

[elizabethevangeline]

I got a "one last chance" warning for making a joke about that... :scratch:

These forums are getting weird. You never know what will offend people. :doh:

Yah, today someone justified calling me a deceiver, a liar, possibly not a christian, & ignorant because he was offended by a response I made to his rant about liturgical/traditional worship being self-focused. I never had a chance to clarify my intention or alter my words...it went straight to personal attack. My attempt at a humorous response has been deleted, the personal attack on my character was still up last I looked. I find it weird, and I find it weird that people just sit back and watch it happen.

[Matrona]

Yah, today someone justified calling me a deceiver, a liar, possibly not a christian, & ignorant

Rule #1 at CF is against flaming, and it is specifically against the rules to accuse someone of not being a Christian. Did you make a report?

My attempt at a humorous response has been deleted, the personal attack on my character was still up last I looked. I find it weird, and I find it weird that people just sit back and watch it happen.

Yeah, one time someone flamed me and broke a whopping three rules, some rules more than once, within the post. Last I checked, it was still up, and no one even replied to my report. I even made a second one to make sure I'd done it. No reply. Nobody cares, apparently.

[Kolya]

Yah, today someone justified calling me a deceiver, a liar, possibly not a christian, & ignorant because he was offended by a response I made to his rant about liturgical/traditional worship being self-focused. I never had a chance to clarify my intention or alter my words...it went straight to personal attack. My attempt at a humorous response has been deleted, the personal attack on my character was still up last I looked. I find it weird, and I find it weird that people just sit back and watch it happen.

Matt 5:11,12

Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.


Matt 5:44

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

[elizabethevangeline]

Yes, I've finally learned about reporting. Supposedly mods are still reviewing.

I think those kind of outbursts (my spiritual state was commented on) are similiar to the kind of manipulation that spiritually abusing churches/leadership use. It's really disturbing.

[Matrona]

I think those kind of outbursts (my spiritual state was commented on) are similiar to the kind of manipulation that spiritually abusing churches/leadership use. It's really disturbing.

Yeah, I've experienced that kind of thing a couple times. :(

I have the sneaking suspicion my reports are ignored in some fora.

If you ever suspect you're not being treated fairly by staff, go to a member of the staff team Alpha. I recommend Gabriel.

[RobNJ]

I think we're done here...feel free to continue the pet discussion in a new thread (so says the mod owned by a black &amp; white cat named Sam )