The Word Hell

[SH89]

After attending my church(or rather, a building holding the church)for about a year, i have noticed that in all of the sermons, i have not heard the word "HELL" be used once!

I found this quote online:
John MacArthur said, "We need to adjust our presentation of the gospel. We cannot dismiss the fact that God hates sin and punishes sinners with eternal torment. How can we begin a gospel presentation by telling people on their way to hell that God has a wonderful plan for their lives?"

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.-mark16:16

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.john3:36

There are tons and tons of scriptures that say that if we reject Jesus we will be damned!

[trying_ 2B_wheat]

come to think of it, i dont hear it very often either. but we spend less time on telling people whats gonna happen if you dont believe and more on telling people how to become more Christianly

[New_Wineskin]

My focus is on the Lord . I have a relationship with Him - not Hell . Since it has no bearing on my life , I don't need to hear about it once a week or even once a month . I don't need to hear about it at all .

[whitmorris]

I agree with new_wineskin. Why should we focus on telling people that they are damned? That only turns them away from the ministry. We need to preach the greatness and glory of the lord and not make him look like a merciless condemning God.

[twistedsketch]

You can't have a true Gospel message without hell, and you can't give a true picture of God if ou're just focusing on hell all the time. Hell needs to be worked in there sometime.

[iglesia]

After attending my church(or rather, a building holding the church)for about a year, i have noticed that in all of the sermons, i have not heard the word "HELL" be used once!

I found this quote online:
John MacArthur said, "We need to adjust our presentation of the gospel. We cannot dismiss the fact that God hates sin and punishes sinners with eternal torment. How can we begin a gospel presentation by telling people on their way to hell that God has a wonderful plan for their lives?"

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.-mark16:16

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.john3:36

There are tons and tons of scriptures that say that if we reject Jesus we will be damned!

The central message of the gospel is salvation through faith in Christ. Although, the scriptures certainly reinforce the emptiness of eternity without Christ, this is not the Good News which makes the gospel special. The Good News is that we don't have to rely on our best efforts to overcome that emptiness (which would make such a goal impossible), but that it is offered to us as a gift for those who would accept it. I see nothing wrong with a church that focuses on this good news (even at the expense of talking about Hell). In fact, I would have a problem with a church that doesn't.

[twistedsketch]

The central message of the gospel is salvation through faith in Christ. Although, the scriptures certainly reinforce the emptiness of eternity without Christ, this is not the Good News which makes the gospel special. The Good News is that we don't have to rely on our best efforts to overcome that emptiness (which would make such a goal impossible), but that it is offered to us as a gift for those who would accept it. I see nothing wrong with a church that focuses on this good news (even at the expense of talking about Hell). In fact, I would have a problem with a church that doesn't.
But what is this emptiness? Is it hell you are talking about, or the general dirt and emptiness of this life?

Christianity should never be reduced to a happy medicine. God never intended it to be that kind of thing anyway. Take two men who are on a plane. A stewardess comes by passing out parachutes. To one, she says, "Here, put this on, your flight will be more comfortable." The man takes it, puts it on, but immediately starts getting frustrated. He's not more comfortable, rather it's making the flight a lot LESS comfortable, no matter how hard he tries to adjust his seat and position. But to another man, she says "Here, this will save your life if the plane crashes." He gladly accepts it, and the extra bulk is not much of a concern to him because he knows what it is for and why it will come in handy.

Christianity is much like that. Christians under persecution are holding onto something beyond worldy comfort - they know that as bad as their imprisonment, torture, and execution may be, they are avoiding something far worse and going to something far greater.

Jesus, who was full of good news and grace, talked about hell more than anybody else did in the whole Bible. It was in fact a major subject. Without at least touching on hell, people are not getting the fullness of the Gospel message.

[ChristianMuse]

My focus is on the Lord . I have a relationship with Him - not Hell . Since it has no bearing on my life , I don't need to hear about it once a week or even once a month . I don't need to hear about it at all .

It is certainly true that Christians have no need to avoid hell since that has already been accomplished in each believer's life. Yet...

Not all who attend church are saved.
1/ The visitor.
2/ There are also some people that call themselves Christian who are not saved for they do not understand the gospel.

What about those who do know the gospel and are saved? They need to be reminded from time to time about the price that was paid and the cost for not believing. This is specially true for those churches who's ministry is more evangelistic.

Hell is a big part of the gospel message. It is a small part of the christian message. In a well rounded (educated) church an understanding of hell and what it represents is neccesary.

:)

[Entertaining_Angels]

Although I'm not a fan of fire and brimstone messages, I think in many churches an unbalanced view of Christianity is portrayed. Many Christians want to hear the fluffy purpose-driven messages and not focus as much on anything uncomfortable. We like the stuff that 'tickles our ears'. I think many Christian churches are failing to present the total message.

[Entertaining_Angels]

Christianity should never be reduced to a happy medicine. God never intended it to be that kind of thing anyway. Take two men who are on a plane. A stewardess comes by passing out parachutes. To one, she says, "Here, put this on, your flight will be more comfortable." The man takes it, puts it on, but immediately starts getting frustrated. He's not more comfortable, rather it's making the flight a lot LESS comfortable, no matter how hard he tries to adjust his seat and position. But to another man, she says "Here, this will save your life if the plane crashes." He gladly accepts it, and the extra bulk is not much of a concern to him because he knows what it is for and why it will come in handy.



Now this is a good analogy. :thumbsup:

[StevenL]

Which "hell" are you talking about? What is the derivation and meaning of the English word "hell"? Anybody really know? Are you talking about "sheol" that was translated as hell? Or "hades"? Or "gehenna"? Or "tartarus"? Which hell do you mean?

[Entertaining_Angels]

Which "hell" are you talking about? What is the derivation and meaning of the English word "hell"? Anybody really know? Are you talking about "sheol" that was translated as hell? Or "hades"? Or "gehenna"? Or "tartarus"? Which hell do you mean?

(asked politely because I really am interested)

Does it matter?

[Lynn73]

You can't have a true Gospel message without hell, and you can't give a true picture of God if ou're just focusing on hell all the time. Hell needs to be worked in there sometime.

I agree. Hell is a reality for the lost and it shouldn't be ignored. I can't remember the last time our pastor preached on hell.

[gazza2000]

Yes but the Lord does have a wonderfull plan for everyone so I see no reason not to tell someone that. Have yo uever walked up to osmeone and said "Your going to hell become a Christian", it's not going to work.

[ChristianMuse]

Yes but the Lord does have a wonderfull plan for everyone so I see no reason not to tell someone that. Have yo uever walked up to osmeone and said "Your going to hell become a Christian", it's not going to work.

Too many people think of Christianity as a philosophy. The church is where the club meets and expresses itself in various activities. Too many people do not realize that there are eternal consequences for sin. Too many do not understand the nature of man. Too many think that there are many paths to the truth. Too many are going to be lost. The gospel is a witness to people about these truths. It is not whether they all will accept it. Nor is it that few will believe. It is the call to the world to repent. It is the prophetic message. And few there be that find it.

:)

[New_Wineskin]

It is certainly true that Christians have no need to avoid hell since that has already been accomplished in each believer's life. Yet...

Not all who attend church are saved.
1/ The visitor.
2/ There are also some people that call themselves Christian who are not saved for they do not understand the gospel.

What about those who do know the gospel and are saved? They need to be reminded from time to time about the price that was paid and the cost for not believing. This is specially true for those churches who's ministry is more evangelistic.

Hell is a big part of the gospel message. It is a small part of the christian message. In a well rounded (educated) church an understanding of hell and what it represents is neccesary.

:)

Well , I disagree that Hell has a major part of the gospel . That would only create people who want salvation from hell and not a relationship with the Lord .

Be that as it may ( and back to the discussion ) ... many people go to these meetings for the sermon ( I don't but many say that is one of the major reasons for attending meetings ) . If the message is about the gospel or basics , that can be mentioned in advance so that those who already know about the topic may take the opportunity to do something else and , perhaps , somewhere else . One could always speak on something else and any unbeliever present can ask questions about the topic which may lead to the gospel . After all , it isn't as if many people will speak on something as a discussion - more of a lecture . That doesn't help people who want to ask questions about what they hear .

[StevenL]

(asked politely because I really am interested)

Does it matter?

It does if we want to understand what was actually said at the time it was written. If not, we can just lump all the ideas into one at our whim...and call them "hell."

The word "hell" comes from the same root as "hole"... It means ...hidden, concealed, unseen, not perceived.

We have many ideas about "hell" that did not come from the original language and speaker. Like devils and pitchforks....laughing as they poke the damned.

Hades and gehenna are both translated as hell. Revelation says that hell (hades) will be thrown into the lake of fire (hell). So.... hell will be thrown into hell? That is confusion.

A tongue can be set on fire by "hell" (gehenna). So is "hell" a place way over there after death.....or is it here now?

Souls and bodies are destroyed in hell (gehenna) fire.

The rich man is tormented in hell (hades)....but....hades is thrown into the lake of fire. Was that his eternal state?

Our God is a consuming Fire.

There are many things we don't quite get about "hell" and there is much much confusion. And, I believe, false doctrine.

As far as "hell" being part of the good news....we should use the words and ideas of the original Scriptures and not preach confusion.

[Athanasian Creed]

The Good News IS that despite deserving a Christless, everlasting torment in the Lake of Fire, Christ died for us so that we could be spared.

Before one can fully appreciate that Good News, one needs to understand the Bad News first and foremost !! ;)


Ray :wave:

[Asaph]

Does the word "hello" derive from the word "hell"?

If so, I wish I'd have known that before that last wife greeted me the first time. Would have saved me a passle of torment. ;) :D

Asaph

[Entertaining_Angels]

You'll never guess what a part of our sermon covered today, hell. The message was discussing God's grace.

Having been a part of the 'fluffy' churches, I appreciate a church with balance.

God bless

[ChristianMuse]

Well , I disagree that Hell has a major part of the gospel . That would only create people who want salvation from hell and not a relationship with the Lord .

Hell is a major part of the gospel. It is not however the major part of the gospel. A well rounded gospel covers all the basics so that a person's salvation has a good foundation of knowledge upon which to grow. Other major parts of the gospel are Jesus is Saviour and Jesus is Lord. There are many other fundamental principles as well listed in Hebrews.

:)

[Jim Woodell]

Hell is a major part of the gospel. It is not however the major part of the gospel. A well rounded gospel covers all the basics so that a person's salvation has a good foundation of knowledge upon which to grow. Other major parts of the gospel are Jesus is Saviour and Jesus is Lord. There are many other fundamental principles as well listed in Hebrews.

:)

What is the gospel? 1 Cor. 15:1-9. The gospel (good news) is that Christ has died for our sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried and raised again on the third day according to the scriptures. Rom 6:23b, "...the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Hell is what God has redeemed us from through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. Hell is not, in any way, a part of the gospel. Many times the Bible and it's overall teaching is confused with the gospel.

The Bible clearly teaches that "The wages of sin is death..." (Rom. 6:23) This death is "hell" that was prepared for the devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41). We all sin and short of God's calling (Rom. 3:23), therefore we all need to be saved. Christ (the sacrifice of himself) is the only source of salvation (John 14:6;Acts 4:12).

Christ never sinned, but he died (Heb. 4:15; 2 Cor. 5:21), therefore he paid a debt he DID NOT OWE. Since I am a sinner, I owe a debt that I CANNOT PAY. Since Christ paid a debt he did not owe, and I owe a debt I cannot pay, the GOOD NEWS is that IF I will accept the debt Christ paid HE will cancel my debt. 1 - 1 = 0

It is also GOOD NEWS that I don't have to rely on or trust in myself for my salvation. God invites us to place all of our burdens on him (1 Pet. 5:6-7).

[holo]

The gospel tells of life abundantly, and we tend to talk about hell abundantly.

God > man.

[twistedsketch]

Hell is a major part of the gospel. It is not however the major part of the gospel. A well rounded gospel covers all the basics so that a person's salvation has a good foundation of knowledge upon which to grow. Other major parts of the gospel are Jesus is Saviour and Jesus is Lord. There are many other fundamental principles as well listed in Hebrews.

:)
Exactly. So many people toss around the title of Savior - but what are we saved from?

[holo]

Exactly. So many people toss around the title of Savior - but what are we saved from?And what are we saved to?

[twistedsketch]

But to be saved TO something we need to be saved FROM something. I'm all about telling people about God and heaven just as much as I am about fire and brimstone. You need both for a true and complete Gospel message.

[Edouard]

Question: Ever try telling a non-christian that they are going to Hell?
Response: ?

Most likely they will not listen to anything you have to say!

Question: Ever ty telling a non-christian that Jesus died for them?

Response: not sure, but i guarantee you will open the door for conversation!

Evangelism is about building relationships with our community outside of the Church. If our goal is to preach the gospel of hell i really think God would be upset, right now within the church on a technical point the discussion of whether Hell exists yet or not is up for debate.. however there is no debate that it will be an everlasting place of torment.

When you try to make new friends, do you say hey your ugly?
No instead you try and be nice and do something nice for them!

I hope my point is understood and not miscontrsued. Keep in mind Paul says that an infant Christian needs milk to thrive!

Your Brother in Christ David
May we all praise and worship our Lord Jesus Christ!

[New_Wineskin]

Hell is a major part of the gospel. :)

Ok . Like I said , I disagree with that . But , that's ok . :)

[holo]

People are supposed to see that we are God's children. If you want to be all "biblical", be biblical in taking seriously the part that says people will know we are children of God because we love one another.

Love conquers everything, especially doctrine and intellect.

[Entertaining_Angels]

I think it's an important reminder for us. Like the previous poster said, if you tell somebody who is an unbeliever they're going to hell, they'll just look at you crosseyed. Our sermon on Sunday involved discussing hell and it really got me thinking about some unsaved folks I know and what would happen if they died tomorrow. I think it gets us off our complacent little rear ends and is a bit motivating.

I just think because so much of that is discussed in the Bible, maybe there's something to it and we ought to be studying it.

[Faith In God]

Question: Ever try telling a non-christian that they are going to Hell?
Response: ?

Most likely they will not listen to anything you have to say!

Question: Ever ty telling a non-christian that Jesus died for them?

Response: not sure, but i guarantee you will open the door for conversation!

Evangelism is about building relationships with our community outside of the Church. If our goal is to preach the gospel of hell i really think God would be upset, right now within the church on a technical point the discussion of whether Hell exists yet or not is up for debate.. however there is no debate that it will be an everlasting place of torment.

When you try to make new friends, do you say hey your ugly?
No instead you try and be nice and do something nice for them!

I hope my point is understood and not miscontrsued. Keep in mind Paul says that an infant Christian needs milk to thrive!

Your Brother in Christ David
May we all praise and worship our Lord Jesus Christ!
Hellfire preaching does damage to the gospel, but to start off by preaching the cure for a disease the person doesn't think he has is to play a "wicked part" in their damnation, as Charles Spurgeon once said. Don't preach Christ crucified to someone who doesn't understand why He was crucified (for his sins, and he must know what sin is before he can repent of it). To do otherwise is to make a false convert thinking he will be saved when his heart is not repentant toward God (and, if nothing changes, will result in that soul being lost).

[Asaph]

People are supposed to see that we are God's children. If you want to be all "biblical", be biblical in taking seriously the part that says people will know we are children of God because we love one another.

Love conquers everything, especially doctrine and intellect.

Amen. The Gospel has not even one thing to do with hell, not one. The word itself means the "Good Message". The good message of what? The good message that God so Loves us that He Himself has provided a way for us to be with Him in Love forever. It doesn't have anything even remotely negative about it.

That's what the law is for. It is a tutor to bring us to Christ, but once there, we are not supposed to be under the "tutor" anymore.

It is this man-made notion that we are supposed to be mixing the tutor with the Gospel that prevents us from showing the Love of God to the world by our love of one another.

Love, and let the Law do it's own work. People will demand that you give them the Good News. :)

Asaph

[iglesia]

Hellfire preaching does damage to the gospel, but to start off by preaching the cure for a disease the person doesn't think he has is to play a "wicked part" in their damnation, as Charles Spurgeon once said. Don't preach Christ crucified to someone who doesn't understand why He was crucified (for his sins, and he must know what sin is before he can repent of it). To do otherwise is to make a false convert thinking he will be saved when his heart is not repentant toward God (and, if nothing changes, will result in that soul being lost).

I don't think it is necessarily accurate to say that the non-believer does not understand the disease, especially for the person who, for one reason or another makes the decision to step foot in a church. Before I came to Christ I did not need anyone to tell me about Hell; I was already there and I'm sure I knew as much about it as any Christian out there. The last thing I needed in a message was to be told that God is going to punish you and eternally torment you for your sins. What I needed was to be told that I could be redeemed by humbling myself before God and accepting the gift of His grace.

This is what I needed and I am grateful there are churches that provided it. If, at first, I had gone to a church that felt the need to preach on Hell, I would have continued to live as I was. There may be some people for whom that message is necessary; I'm not one to judge that. But I certainly cannot criticize churches that choose not take that approach.

[ChristianMuse]

The thread started out by asking why at church meetings that the mention and teaching about hell is seldom, if ever, heard. The mention of evangelistic reach was mentioned by me and refers to the meeting itself, not the work done in the community. In this reference of within the walls of the church I mentioned the teaching of the gospel and that hell was a major part of the message. My basis for this rests on what is milk? Hebrews 5:12-13 and Hebrews 6:1-2

Hebrews 5:12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Now those who attend a church filled only with mature Christians who are well practiced in the basics of Christianity certainly can go on to perfection. But if they ever open the door for evangelism the basics will have to be covered once again and that includes the teaching on eternal judgment and hell as its consequence.

:)

[Lynn73]

I don't think it's true that the gospel has nothing to do with hell. Isn't that what Jesus came to save us from? Where we'd be going if we rejected Him?

[holo]

If we died with him, how MUCH MORE will we LIVE by him?

[Asaph]

I don't think it's true that the gospel has nothing to do with hell. Isn't that what Jesus came to save us from? Where we'd be going if we rejected Him?

The Gospel only has to do with where we go because of Him.

Those who have not yet understood their own end, have no need of the "Good News".

The command to preach the "Good News" was originally given to those who already knew what the "bad news" was.

The "tutor" was already clear to all those to whom He spoke the great commision to. It should be understood that spelling the bad news out to them was unecessary, and the bad news was a "given".

Asaph

[ChristianMuse]

The Gospel only has to do with where we go because of Him.

Those who have not yet understood their own end, have no need of the "Good News".

The command to preach the "Good News" was originally given to those who already knew what the "bad news" was.

The "tutor" was already clear to all those to whom He spoke the great commision to. It should be understood that spelling the bad news out to them was unecessary, and the bad news was a "given".

Asaph

If this was truly the case then I would think that the Gospels would be conspicuously absent of any remark about hell, judgment, and eternal punishment. Since it is found in each of the gospels the understanding of hell, etc. must have been necessary. As for those who had the Gospel originally given to them... did they know all this ( hell etc.) before Jesus revealed the truth to them? I doubt it. Even though Jesus picked them that doesn't mean they already had the knowledge. Like the parables Jesus used... he was always having to explain it to the apostles in planner language because too often they didn't understand what Jesus was saying to the crowds. Of course this misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying was in fulfillment of scripture.

Now if you are saying that just before he ascended to heaven, when the great commission was given to the church, that then they understood the gospel... I would agree with you. Yet the gospel is everything that Jesus revealed. That includes teachings and mentioning of hell, etc.

The question I would like to ask is why do some people treat the mentioning of the word hell within the church walls as anathema? If all you did was read directly from the scriptures you would have to mention the word.

Does one gain knowledge by avoiding the topic?

:)

[iglesia]

Does one gain knowledge by avoiding the topic?

:)

I agree that, in order to understand the solution, one first needs to know that there is a problem. Where I disagree is in whether the lost understand the problem in the first place. Hell is eternal separation from God, right? I assume we can agree to that premise. Before I came to Christ, I was quite aware of what it is like to be seprated from God. In fact, I believe that the only thing that I failed to understand about my situation was that I could not escape the hell that my life had become through death. I thank God that He got to me before I tried to escape on my own. What I am getting at here is that I think the lost understand the problem quite well. What they need to hear is the solution.

I don't think that our ministry should avoid the topic of Hell altogether, but the focus, IMO, should be the solution rather than the problem.

[ChristianMuse]

I agree that, in order to understand the solution, one first needs to know that there is a problem. Where I disagree is in whether the lost understand the problem in the first place. Hell is eternal separation from God, right? I assume we can agree to that premise. Before I came to Christ, I was quite aware of what it is like to be seprated from God. In fact, I believe that the only thing that I failed to understand about my situation was that I could not escape the hell that my life had become through death. I thank God that He got to me before I tried to escape on my own. What I am getting at here is that I think the lost understand the problem quite well. What they need to hear is the solution.

I don't think that our ministry should avoid the topic of Hell altogether, but the focus, IMO, should be the solution rather than the problem.

There are may people who have made the statement that they are already in hell because of life circumstances. This is usually spoken by those who do not believe in a literal hell and (more often than not) do not believe in God. They believe that death brings a release from earthly torment and then there is nothing. Some think that upon death all go to heaven. These are not scriptural responses.

You are correct in one aspect of hell, that it is a separation from God. What is missing is that there is a judgment and those found wanting are delivered to the lake of fire. We stand by faith in the revealed word of God. Those who are not of faith are condemned already because they do not believe. If we hold back part of the truth people will believe the first paragraph.

The problem remains... too many churches do not teach adequately about judgment and hell. Some do not mention it at all.

The question remains... Does one gain knowledge by avoiding the topic?

Why is this important... My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. Hosea 4:6

:)

[soldout]

There are may people who have made the statement that they are already in hell because of life circumstances. This is usually spoken by those who do not believe in a literal hell and (more often than not) do not believe in God. They believe that death brings a release from earthly torment and then there is nothing. Some think that upon death all go to heaven. These are not scriptural responses.

You are correct in one aspect of hell, that it is a separation from God. What is missing is that there is a judgment and those found wanting are delivered to the lake of fire. We stand by faith in the revealed word of God. Those who are not of faith are condemned already because they do not believe. If we hold back part of the truth people will believe the first paragraph.

The problem remains... too many churches do not teach adequately about judgment and hell. Some do not mention it at all.

The question remains... Does one gain knowledge by avoiding the topic?

Why is this important... My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. Hosea 4:6

:)

I've read through everything here and I have to say I lean towards agreeing with you. But what is not being acknowledged well enough in this thread, in my opinion anyway, is the fact that speaking forth truth to an unbeliever and speaking forth truth to a believer are two entirely didfferent things, even if the exact same words are used and the speaking forth happens only once and at the same audience.

There is something to be said and supported in those congregations that do nothing but teach through the bible, expository teaching.

They never miss the full council of God that way.

How could we be any safer than that?

[ChristianMuse]

I've read through everything here and I have to say I lean towards agreeing with you. But what is not being acknowledged well enough in this thread, in my opinion anyway, is the fact that speaking forth truth to an unbeliever and speaking forth truth to a believer are two entirely didfferent things, even if the exact same words are used and the speaking forth happens only once and at the same audience.

There is something to be said and supported in those congregations that do nothing but teach through the bible, expository teaching.

They never miss the full council of God that way.

How could we be any safer than that?

I whole heartedly agree with you. There is a vast difference between the believer and the unbeliever. That is why I stuck to the thread topic of "in the church" itself. What happens outside of the church is up to the individual and how that individual is lead by the Spirit to share the gospel with those who do not know the truth. The methods and topics are vast and varied.

:)

[soldout]

I whole heartedly agree with you. There is a vast difference between the believer and the unbeliever. That is why I stuck to the thread topic of "in the church" itself. What happens outside of the church is up to the individual and how that individual is lead by the Spirit to share the gospel with those who do not know the truth. The methods and topics are vast and varied.

:)

I have been witness to a seemingly insignificant scripture just breaking down a person. So my chioce always has to be just teach what the bible says. Give the meaning as you can (think Nehemiah) and let God do His own work.

At the end of the day, no matter how hard we have strived or how clever we think we have been, we are yet un-profitable servants. We have only done that which it was our duty to do.

I can guarantee you this, every one God has chosen will be saved. Not one will be lost. Not one.

[Faith In God]

I don't think it is necessarily accurate to say that the non-believer does not understand the disease, especially for the person who, for one reason or another makes the decision to step foot in a church. Before I came to Christ I did not need anyone to tell me about Hell; I was already there and I'm sure I knew as much about it as any Christian out there. The last thing I needed in a message was to be told that God is going to punish you and eternally torment you for your sins. What I needed was to be told that I could be redeemed by humbling myself before God and accepting the gift of His grace. This worked because you had knowledge of your sin and was already convicted of it. Those who are humble are given the gospel, and those who are proud must be lowered before they are ready to accept the grace of the gospel.

This is what I needed and I am grateful there are churches that provided it. If, at first, I had gone to a church that felt the need to preach on Hell, I would have continued to live as I was. No. You would've seen the truth of the fact of sin in your own life and would feel yourself nodding in agreement. Why would you be driven away by what you know is true? There may be some people for whom that message is necessary; I'm not one to judge that. But I certainly cannot criticize churches that choose not take that approach.
To take the law out of the gospel is to invite false conversions. To preach Christ crucified for sin before the audience understands the full extent of sin is for a doctor to tell someone he's never seen before to take a cure for a disease the person has never heard of.

[Faith In God]

If this was truly the case then I would think that the Gospels would be conspicuously absent of any remark about hell, judgment, and eternal punishment. Since it is found in each of the gospels the understanding of hell, etc. must have been necessary. As for those who had the Gospel originally given to them... did they know all this ( hell etc.) before Jesus revealed the truth to them? I doubt it. Even though Jesus picked them that doesn't mean they already had the knowledge. Like the parables Jesus used... he was always having to explain it to the apostles in planner language because too often they didn't understand what Jesus was saying to the crowds. Of course this misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying was in fulfillment of scripture. They understood sin because they ate, drank, slept, and breathed the Law (the ten commandments). It is conspicuously absent of the Law being preached. Look at the preaching of Paul (read Romans) and compare how much more he used the Law to convict of sin to the Gentiles.

Now if you are saying that just before he ascended to heaven, when the great commission was given to the church, that then they understood the gospel... I would agree with you. Yet the gospel is everything that Jesus revealed. That includes teachings and mentioning of hell, etc. No. The Gospel means "Good news". The full Gospel does, in fact, include the bad news so that the good news will be better understood and appreciated. If Jesus preached both bad and good news to the Jews who ate, drank, slept and breathed the law, then how much more a nation with an idolatrous understanding of God's holy nature?

[BTW]I have the strange feeling that I am agreeing with you, but seeming with an argument...am I right?

I agree that, in order to understand the solution, one first needs to know that there is a problem. Where I disagree is in whether the lost understand the problem in the first place. Hell is eternal separation from God, right? I assume we can agree to that premise. Before I came to Christ, I was quite aware of what it is like to be seprated from God. In fact, I believe that the only thing that I failed to understand about my situation was that I could not escape the hell that my life had become through death. I thank God that He got to me before I tried to escape on my own. What I am getting at here is that I think the lost understand the problem quite well. What they need to hear is the solution. Bill Bright conducted a survey in which he concluded that modern evangelistic efforts can expect an 80-90% backsliding rate. Right now, we exclude the law very much. I have been to a great many churches, and the 'alter call' is done at the end of every sermon, whether or not the cross, sin, hell, or God's judgment or righteousness was mentioned. I have to disagree with you.

I don't think that our ministry should avoid the topic of Hell altogether, but the focus, IMO, should be the solution rather than the problem. Say I am a doctor. I have a cure for a newly discovered disease. It is horribly expensive, though. I walk down the street and see someone with it. In horror, I sell my car and mortgage my house to acquire the cure, find the person and say "Excuse me, you have a deadly disease. I just sold my car and morgaged my house to get the cure." How will the person react? He might take it, he might not. And he will definately think you are kind of weird for coming up to him, a stranger, and giving up so much for a disease you don't really think you have. (Go up to anyone on the street, I challenge you. You think people are already convinced of the disease of sin? Ask a stranger (after you get a little conversation going) and ask them if they think they are a good person. They will, without fail, say "Yes", though some might concede that they make mistakes 'sometimes'.) Now, how much better would it be if I were to go up to the stranger, start talking to him, and point out the symptoms and ask him to examine himself to see if what I am saying is true. If he becomes convinced of the disease, he will seek the cure. And he will appreciate the sacrifice made for the cure. And he will take it with great thanks.

[ChristianMuse]

Bill Bright conducted a survey in which he concluded that modern evangelistic efforts can expect an 80-90% backsliding rate. Right now, we exclude the law very much. I have been to a great many churches, and the 'alter call' is done at the end of every sermon, whether or not the cross, sin, hell, or God's judgment or righteousness was mentioned.

Hmmm... is that the same back-sliding rate for ex-cons? I do not think that the method of coming to salvation is the root of the problem. It is discipleship or the lack of it that is a real problem in the Christian community. Reminds me of the parable of the sower. There really didn't appear to be too many that made it all the way.

:)

[Faith In God]

Hmmm... is that the same back-sliding rate for ex-cons? I do not think that the method of coming to salvation is the root of the problem. It is discipleship or the lack of it that is a real problem in the Christian community. Reminds me of the parable of the sower. There really didn't appear to be too many that made it all the way.

:)
Well, if you plow the ground of the hard sinner's heart before throwing the seeds, the seed has a better chance.

[ChristianMuse]

Well, if you plow the ground of the hard sinner's heart before throwing the seeds, the seed has a better chance.

How true are your words. This also is true; it is the work of the Holy Spirit to plow the ground and get it ready for the seed. Those who are prepared by God for the seed will flourish. We can only hope that tares are not sown at the same time by the enemy.

:)

[Faith In God]

How true are your words. This also is true; it is the work of the Holy Spirit to plow the ground and get it ready for the seed. Those who are prepared by God for the seed will flourish. We can only hope that tares are not sown at the same time by the enemy.

:)
The Holy Spirit brings the increase as well as the growth of the seed itself, but the tearing down of pride can be worked by the Law (the Ten Commandments). When Peter first preached (publicly, at Pentecost), at his mentioning of the Jews' collective sin (namely, killing Christ), they were "cut to the heart". The Holy Spirit must work, but we have to be sharing the whole Gospel, which includes the bad news of sin (otherwise the good news doesn't make much sense.)

[ChristianMuse]

The Holy Spirit brings the increase as well as the growth of the seed itself, but the tearing down of pride can be worked by the Law (the Ten Commandments). When Peter first preached (publicly, at Pentecost), at his mentioning of the Jews' collective sin (namely, killing Christ), they were "cut to the heart". The Holy Spirit must work, but we have to be sharing the whole Gospel, which includes the bad news of sin (otherwise the good news doesn't make much sense.)

I agree that the whole gospel needs to be preached. All of the new testament needs to be preached. Even the old testamant has value for it is an example to us of how God deals with his people and promises that were made and a general history of God's acts among the nations.

[epyon]

Your are right the word hell is use very little though the bible.

[holo]

You can't have a true Gospel message without hell, and you can't give a true picture of God if ou're just focusing on hell all the time. Hell needs to be worked in there sometime.I have a friend who is amazingly good at sharing the gospel, and if we'd had a competition in getting others saved, he'd beat me hands down. He doesn't even believe in hell.