The Irish Orthodox Monks

[MariaRegina]

No, I don't think even the seafaring Irish monks got that far :D

Neil

On the contrary, the Irish monks were Orthodox monks who most likely were Lebanese as the Lebanese set up trading posts in all the major ports from Spain, to France, England, Ireland, Greenland, Iceland, and possibly America before 1000 AD. Recently an ancient Christmas greeting was found carved in stone on American shores and this dates prior to 1000 AD. Researchers think that it was carved by Celtic monks.

The Celts were converted by the Orthodox monks who came as missionaries possibly on the Lebanese trading ships. There are traces of ancient Byzantine Churches in England - and there is a disputed site where someone talks about Rome forceably converting the Orthodox Irish to Catholicism afte the Schism of 1054. Have you heard anything about that? Or is that a fabrication?

The Celts were marginalized to the coasts of England, Ireland, Scotland, Normandie and Brittany, France, by the aggressive Germanic Tribes: Anglos, Saxons and Picts.

BTW: Eric the Red was said to have visited Peru to bring the Christian gospel to the Natives there. There is a story told by the ancient Peruvians of this king coming in a boat with flaming red hair. He taught them about the Trinity and told them that Christian Missionaries would come and teach them. This is one reason why the Indians didn't fight the Spanish who came for gold until it was too late. The Spanish missionaries did evangelize the Natives, but what a tragedy, our human greed destroyed the lives of so many.

[Rilian]

Where did you come across all of this Aria? I had always thought the Phoenicians traded but never settled beyond the Mediterranean.

Also my understanding has been that Ireland was evangelized through Roman Britain and was a stronghold of the Latin language among the monastics who then in turn evangelized Pagan areas of western Europe.

[MariaRegina]

Where did you come across all of this Aria? I had always thought the Phoenicians traded but never settled beyond the Mediterranean.

Also my understanding has been that Ireland was evangelized through Roman Britain and was a stronghold of the Latin language among the monastics who then in turn evangelized Pagan areas of western Europe.

I took a course in the History of the English Language at the university, which is a senior level course which Master's level students can count toward their credits.
I have earned by B.A. in Linguistics.

It was wonderful. When I took it in 2003, I posted several references to it here at CF, but I cannot find the thread in my searches. There is quite a lot on the internet and my professor gave us about 2 or 3 lectures on this. It was simply fascinating.

The Phoenicians established several trading ports in Spain and had an active community. The Divine Liturgy was celebrated in Spain and the custom of honoring the dead by baking bread came from the Phonenicians and the Greeks who settled in Spain. My ancestors are French Lebanese from the line of St. Thomas More Roper and the former President Reagan is Irish Lebanese aka Black Irish (as I am also).

Have you ever heard of the Black Irish - most of us are called Black Irish due to the almost black color of our hair which persists even past menopause in women, but we Black Irish are of Lebanese ancestry (mixed in with some Celt, Viking, etc.). However, some will say that the Spanish Armada carried some men on board who survived and married the fair Irish daughters of the farmers. From the research I read, it said that most, if not all, of the sailors were killed by the concerned Irish farmers who wanted to protect their daughters. :D

The fighting Irish strike again.

[MariaRegina]

Ireland was Christianized rather early during the first century. Then the Romans had difficulties maintaining the Isle and it fell into pagan hands. Those war mongers, the Germanic tribes, kept invading the fortified cities that the Romans established. It had to be christianized again.

[Marjorie]

I heard some of this from one of the nuns at the monastery, but I can't remember the name of the book she was referencing...

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Rilian]

Have you ever heard of the Black Irish - most of us are called Black Irish due to the almost black color of our hair which persists even past menopause in women, but we Black Irish are of Lebanese ancestry (mixed in with some Celt, Viking, etc.). However, some will say that the Spanish Armada carried some men on board who survived and married the fair Irish daughters of the farmers. From the research I read, it said that most, if not all, of the sailors were killed by the concerned Irish farmers who wanted to protect their daughters. :D

The fighting Irish strike again.

The variation I had heard was the Spanish Armada one, and that if you had fair hair and green or blue eyes somebody in your family was on friendly terms with a Viking at some point.

[MariaRegina]

The latest research I read shows that the men in the Spanish Armada were not allowed to debark and as a result most died of scurvy.

Truly, the Irish have a prayer that asks protection "From the things that go bump in the night," which addressses the Vikings that came to pick up the fair maidens to take for a wife. Those women were taken to Scandanavia as the cold climate and sparse living conditions killed many new brides, not to mention the voyage itself.

However,

I have dark brown hair and green eyes and fair skin that sunburns too easily. Now my hair is salt-pepper typical of many Black Irish. The Lebanese also have that same kind of hair as I have seen in the Melkite and Antiochian Churches.

[Maximus]

The variation I had heard was the Spanish Armada one, and that if you had fair hair and green or blue eyes somebody in your family was on friendly terms with a Viking at some point.

The following is anecdotal, but I had a buddy from Dublin who said DNA research was done in Ireland that showed that the modern Irish have more Scandinavian than Celtic ancestry. I haven't tried to confirm what he told me. I know that most of the large cities in Ireland were founded by the Vikings. The far west of Ireland is the more Celtic part.

Many Irish women were taken to Iceland as brides for the settlers there, too.

[Lotar]

I've also heard that the Irish were supposed to be closely related to the celts that came up through Spain. And I've heard that Irish monasticism was highly influenced by the Egyptians.

Everyone seems to have some theory or another, but they all fall short of the truth. The Irish are a genetically superior race of beings that have lived in Ireland from the beginning of time, and we invented monasticism.
:P

[Kolya]

The following is anecdotal, but I had a buddy from Dublin who said DNA research was done in Ireland that showed that the modern Irish have more Scandinavian than Celtic ancestry. I haven't tried to confirm what he told me. I know that most of the large cities in Ireland were founded by the Vikings. The far west of Ireland is the more Celtic part.


Oh boy, I must REALLY have been in the melting pot! I have Irish in me from my American Ancestors, and Dutch too, and who knows what else. My skin is also too fair, and I've always had to use a total blockout suntan lotion on the beach as I burn too easy. My hair is dark, though wavy. And my daughter got ice blue eyes, like my dad, though neither I nor her mother did not.
I always say I'm a "Liquorice All Sort" ;) (Type of candy)

[ExOrienteLux]

Everyone seems to have some theory or another, but they all fall short of the truth. The Irish are a genetically superior race of beings that have lived in Ireland from the beginning of time, and we invented monasticism.

Shhhh!!! Don't say that too loud or the rest of us will have to kill you for revealing the secret - that the Irish are secretly the overlords of this planet and that the whole drunken stupor thing is just a sham. You know the NWO, the Illuminati? They're just pseudonyms for the Irish who were stupid enough to let themselves be known as what we really are.

I mean, come on: we saved Western civilisation, remember? And were the first Europeans to land in the New World (yay for St. Brendan!). And developed cold fusion techniques (but that was before we discovered uisce - then things kind of went downhill).

:D

-Philip.

[Kolya]

[/font]

Shhhh!!! Don't say that too loud or the rest of us will have to kill you for revealing the secret - that the Irish are secretly the overlords of this planet and that the whole drunken stupor thing is just a sham. You know the NWO, the Illuminati? They're just pseudonyms for the Irish who were stupid enough to let themselves be known as what we really are.

I mean, come on: we saved Western civilisation, remember? And were the first Europeans to land in the New World (yay for St. Brendan!). And developed cold fusion techniques (but that was before we discovered uisce - then things kind of went downhill).

:D

-Philip.

And don't tell anyone we rented out the Elves so they could shoot the LOTR!:P

[Irish Melkite]

Truly, the Irish have a prayer that asks protection "From the things that go bump in the night," which addressses the Vikings that came to pick up the fair maidens to take for a wife.

Elizabeth,

From ghoulies and ghosties,
And long-legged beasties,
And things that go bump in the night,
O Lord deliver us

is usually attributed as a Cornish prayer (occasional as Scots). It has nothing to do with the Vikings; it was intended to ward off the dangers of the lost souls prowling the Earth.

Although there is a relatively newly formed entity called the Irish Lebanese Cultural Foundation, which came about from bonds developed when Irish UN forces were stationed in Lebanon as peacekeepers, there has been no serious suggestion from anyone that the Irish and Lebanese have any common ethno-biological heritage.

The term "Black Irish" isn't known in Ireland in the meaning commonly applied in the US (dark-haired Irish with porcelain complexions). There it is used solely (in Ulster primarily) as a derisive term for Protestants of Irish Celtic stock (as opposed to those of Anglo-Irish, Scots-Irish, or other non-Irish ethnic orgin).

It's most common occurrence in the Western Hemisphere, prior to modern times, was to describe those from the Caribbean island of Montserrat (a/k/a the Caribbean Ireland) who were the mixed-race descendents of marriage between Irish settlers and resettled Black former slaves. Attend a meeting of the Montserrat Progressive Societies or Montserrat Achievers, scattered across the US, and you'll encounter their descendents - very proud of their mixed heritage and Irish surnames.

The explanations of the hair-skin coloration combo that Irish-Americans have come to term Black Irish are accounted for, most likely, in tracing back to the legendary races that settled Ireland - the Firbolg, the Tuatha na Danaan, and the Milesians. The Firbolg in particular are described as being of dark hair.

There were less than a score of Spanish Armada survivors known to have reached shore and remained in Ireland, hardly enough to have created a new strain. Other than the small Irish-Palatine community centered chiefly in and about Limerick, the Normans who came to be termed the Anglo-Irish, the Scots-Irish introduced via the Plantation, and those descended of the Danish Vikings who settled chiefly in the eastern and southeastern coastal areas, such as Waterford and Dublin, there are no appreciable bodies of transplants to Ireland beyond its (now) native Celtic inhabitants. (The Vikings made many more permanent landfalls among the Scots, particularly in the Western Isles, where the names of early clan chiefs and sept chieftains often reflect Scandinavian styling or derivation in their personal names.)

It is true that the Galicians of Spain are now believed to constitute a seventh Celtic race, in addition to those of Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Man, Cornwall, and Brittany.

While there are suggestions that there was some interchange between Coptic monks and Ireland, as evidenced by some influences in Irish ecclesial and literary art, I've never seen it seriously suggested that Ireland was christianized in the 1st century, re-paganized, and later re-converted. The Phoenician trading routes are relatively well-documented and don't include Ireland.

Many years,

Neil

[Photini]

Oh boy, I must REALLY have been in the melting pot! I have Irish in me from my American Ancestors, and Dutch too, and who knows what else. My skin is also too fair, and I've always had to use a total blockout suntan lotion on the beach as I burn too easy. My hair is dark, though wavy. And my daughter got ice blue eyes, like my dad, though neither I nor her mother did not.
I always say I'm a "Liquorice All Sort" ;) (Type of candy)
Same here. My mother had blue eyes. My son has red hair (which he gets from both my side and his father's side) and FRECKLES like you wouldn't believe. I have my fair share of freckles as well.

[Kolya]

Same here. My mother had blue eyes. My son has red hair (which he gets from both my side and his father's side) and FRECKLES like you wouldn't believe. I have my fair share of freckles as well.

Yah, My daughter got the freckles too! My son got the blond hair.:scratch:

[ExOrienteLux]

Much as I like to say that I'm Irish, it's a bit more accurate to say that while I have Irish in me, I'm mainly Scots-Irish and Scottish. As such, I've got a relatively good tolerance for sun, a stocky build, and dark brown hair. My girlfriend, on the other hand, is your typical Irish lass: flowing red hair, fair skin, burns easily, and a temper to match the color of her hair. Of course, her temper burns just like hot fire: fast and hot, but it gets done with quick. She's mo roiseann, no doubt about that.

-Philip.

[Axion]

Ireland was never as isolated as some people imagine, looking at a map. There is evidence now that trading vessels from Constantinople and the east were still visiting the western British isles as late as the 600s AD, 200 years after the Roman legions left Britain. It was only when the Muslims conquered North Africa in the late 7th century that Mediterranean trade ceased and trade and contact with the east halted. Of course the Church was united in those days.

irish monk, St brendan is reckoned to have sailed to America in a leather coracle-vessel. His voyage was retraced and proved possible 20 years ago by Tim Severin.

Until the 18th century barbary pirates raided isolated Irish and coastal british communities for slaves - another forgotten link.

[vanshan]

Where did you come across all of this Aria? I had always thought the Phoenicians traded but never settled beyond the Mediterranean.

Also my understanding has been that Ireland was evangelized through Roman Britain and was a stronghold of the Latin language among the monastics who then in turn evangelized Pagan areas of western Europe.


Somewhere on this page: www.orthodoxengland.btinternet.co.uk/hp.htm I found an excellent, and somewhat lengthy article about the Latinizing of the English Christians.

Basil

[Photini]

Much as I like to say that I'm Irish, it's a bit more accurate to say that while I have Irish in me, I'm mainly Scots-Irish and Scottish. As such, I've got a relatively good tolerance for sun, a stocky build, and dark brown hair. My girlfriend, on the other hand, is your typical Irish lass: flowing red hair, fair skin, burns easily, and a temper to match the color of her hair. Of course, her temper burns just like hot fire: fast and hot, but it gets done with quick. She's mo roiseann, no doubt about that.

-Philip.
I've got Scottish from my dad's side, and Irish from my mother's side, along with a fair amount of Cherokee. :)

[MariaRegina]

I've got Scottish from my dad's side, and Irish from my mother's side, along with a fair amount of Cherokee. :)

Hey, we might be related. I'm part Cherokee. In fact, our family just missed the trail of tears in Georgia.