Icons made by non-Orthodox people - Are they okay?

[Zacharias]

Are icons made by non-Orthodox people okay to use? Are they "real"? :confused:

[Photini]

I personally would shy away from them, as I would rather be supporting an Orthodox person in their work.

But if the Icon is blessed by an Orthodox priest, honestly, I don't see much of an issue with it. I could very well be wrong though. By the way, do you need any Icons? I have some duplicates if you're interested? PM me if you are. :)

[Zacharias]

I personally would shy away from them, as I would rather be supporting an Orthodox person in their work.

But if the Icon is blessed by an Orthodox priest, honestly, I don't see much of an issue with it. I could very well be wrong though.
I was thinking of Coptic icons and small cheap mini icons I saw at an Episcopal bookstore. :)

By the way, do you need any Icons? I have some duplicates if you're interested? PM me if you are. :)
Thanks but no thanks. My mom is totally against my giving out any of my information to anyone. Thanks again. :hug:

[Photini]

No problem. :) I think Coptic Icons are beautiful. I took some pictures of some Ethiopian Icons when I was in Kansas last year. Take a look (I know the quality isn't that great...)

[Zacharias]

No problem. :) I think Coptic Icons are beautiful. I took some pictures of some Ethiopian Icons when I was in Kansas last year. Take a look (I know the quality isn't that great...)
They're beautiful, is it okay to have Coptic icons? :)

[Photini]

I personally don't see any problem with that at all. :)

[choirfiend]

We get our icons blessed by the priest, especially the non-hand-painted ones. So, til you're having that done someday, you can keep whatever you like, I think. A priest would be better counsel.

[Matrona]

Are icons made by non-Orthodox people okay to use? Are they "real"? :confused:

It depends. Keep in mind that icons written by non-Orthodox sometimes flout the traditional guidelines of iconography and the icon might express an unorthodox or anti-Orthodox idea or doctrine. But there is nothing wrong with them innately because they weren't written by an Orthodox Christian.

Also remember that there is nothing innately wrong with 'western style' iconography. The same warning applies, but other than those 'two men and a dove Trinity' icons, they are usually fine.

If you're not sure about one, I'd recommend having an Orthodox priest have a look at it or describing it to him.

I've seen some very beautiful icons written by non-Orthodox, and some so-called 'icons' that were 'written' by Orthodox that were absolutely horrible.

[Monica, child of God]

Yes, ask your priest. Mine said that Coptic icons are okay but I don't buy ones that are not in the canonical Orthodox style. For instance, I have a Coptic tryptic of the Dormition of the Theotokos and it is in the exact same style of the canonical Orthodox ones. But I have seen icons of three identical men holding their hands in a blessing. I think this is a depiction of the Trinity which is not canonical and I won't go anywhere near it.

M.

[Photini]

The only Trinity Icons I like are the ones with the three Angels and the Baptism of Christ.

A monk at the monastery was telling me a story about that Trinity icon with the old man, the dove and Christ. He said a non-Christian from another country (I think he said Japan, but can't remember) had seen this icon and made the comment, "It is good that your God has a young son, because he looks very old."

[Zacharias]

"It is good that your God has a young son, because he looks very old."
LOL! That's awful! :D

[Michael the Iconographer]

Also remember that there is nothing innately wrong with 'western style' iconography. The same warning applies, but other than those 'two men and a dove Trinity' icons, they are usually fine.



Not to condtradict you, BUT, in the 17th C Patriarch Nikhon condemned all "icons influneced by the renaissance," ie. written in oil paint, and suggested they all need burned and the people writing them need to cease and decist.

I have no problem with Coptic icons, as they are more or less Orthodox. I don't want to get in an argument with anyone about the definition of Orthodox over that last statement. I do have a problem with non-Orthodox writing icons in general. Yes, my teach is not Orthodox, but he also follows the rules of iconography much more strictly than many other Orthodox iconographers. I personally would not teach anyone who is not Orthodox to write an icon. My godfather would not show me any iconographic technique until I was chrismated and I can see why. There are people who are not Orthodox such as Robert Lenz who call themselves iconographers and use iconography for socio-political motives, and this is wrong. I dare say it borders on sacrilege.

Michael

[Zacharias]

How about icons that Orthodox styled that I found in an episcopal bookstore? They looked just like real Orthodox icons. :)

[Matrona]

How about icons that Orthodox styled that I found in an episcopal bookstore? They looked just like real Orthodox icons. :)

They're probably fine. Probably good to have a priest look them over when you are able to visit a parish, to make sure there's nothing squicky about them.

It's funny you mention that there's an Episcopal parish selling icons, because there's something specific I need to warn you about: there's an Episcopal parish out in California that is host of the infamous 'icons' of the 'dancing saints'. So if you see an 'icon' of Malcolm X kicking up his heels and shaking a tambourine, RUN AWAY!! :sick:

[MariaRegina]

Brent, how come those new armour bearers don't stay in place and then meander into another's thread?

[Zacharias]

Brent, how come those new armour bearers don't stay in place and then meander into another's thread?
Are you you using firefox? If so Erwin said it's a firefox bug, it can be fixed by refreshing your page.

[Zacharias]

They're probably fine. Probably good to have a priest look them over when you are able to visit a parish, to make sure there's nothing squicky about them.

It's funny you mention that there's an Episcopal parish selling icons, because there's something specific I need to warn you about: there's an Episcopal parish out in California that is host of the infamous 'icons' of the 'dancing saints'. So if you see an 'icon' of Malcolm X kicking up his heels and shaking a tambourine, RUN AWAY!! :sick:
:sick:

[Maximus]

Personally, I would stay away from Coptic icons, unless you think it is okay to have Nestorian icons, and Arian icons (if you could find them), and any other sort of icons.

Since there is no shortage of Orthodox icons, why go for non-Orthodox icons?

[Llauralin]

How did you guys figure out what icons to get? I was looking at the ones on Skete and there were just SO many! I really like the Jesus the True Vine one, and kinda want to get one (not to mention my father was giving not so subtle hints he really likes it too), but otherwisewas rather overwhelmed.

[Zacharias]

Personally, I would stay away from Coptic icons, unless you think it is okay to have Nestorian icons, and Arian icons (if you could find them), and any other sort of icons.

Since there is no shortage of Orthodox icons, why go for non-Orthodox icons?
I wanted Coptic because of their beauty (probably not anymore thanks to your post ;)). Episcopal because they hve mini wooden icons (I'm talking about the ones done in the Orthodox tradition). :)

[RobNJ]

Are you you using firefox? If so Erwin said it's a firefox bug, it can be fixed by refreshing your page.

Not just firefox.. it's affecting all of clan Gecko (Firefox, Mozilla & Camino)

[Zacharias]

Not just firefox.. it's affecting all of clan Gecko (Firefox, Mozilla & Camino)Erwin's probably the best person to notify. :)

[choirfiend]

Just do what I do, and change your options so you dont have to see as much as that extra junk as possible...No problems then.

[VickiY]

Getting icons in non-traditional format means you also miss the symbolism and the theology behind the icons...the colours mean something, the items the saints hold mean something, the position of the hands means something....All that is lacking in an otherwise beautiful image.

As to the prohibition of icons done in oil, that is because traditional Orthodox iconography is done in egg-tempura...the colours are often mixtures of ground semi-precious stones, and so the final image represents the animal kingdom, the vegetable kingdom, and the mineral kingdom (earth). Oil painting misses that mark, even if the image is identical. *Of course, this also means that all our icon prints would be condemned under that no-oil paint condemnation.

As to which icons to buy? And of which saints? Christ and the Theotokos are essential, and an icon of one's patron saint...beyond that, however, chose your icons on the basis of your needs, and on the basis of which saints you have a strong devotion to.

Vicki

[Zacharias]

Getting icons in non-traditional format means you also miss the symbolism and the theology behind the icons...the colours mean something, the items the saints hold mean something, the position of the hands means something....All that is lacking in an otherwise beautiful image.

As to the prohibition of icons done in oil, that is because traditional Orthodox iconography is done in egg-tempura...the colours are often mixtures of ground semi-precious stones, and so the final image represents the animal kingdom, the vegetable kingdom, and the mineral kingdom (earth). Oil painting misses that mark, even if the image is identical. *Of course, this also means that all our icon prints would be condemned under that no-oil paint condemnation.

As to which icons to buy? And of which saints? Christ and the Theotokos are essential, and an icon of one's patron saint...beyond that, however, chose your icons on the basis of your needs, and on the basis of which saints you have a strong devotion to.

Vicki
I see your point and agree. I'm not Orthodox so I don't have a patron saint (I figure you get one at Chrismation?). I don't have an icon of the Theotokos yet. I plan to buy these with my birthday money: http://www.skete.com/moreinfo.cfm?Category=63&Product_ID=774

[Marjorie]

That's a beautiful diptych!

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Zacharias]

That's a beautiful diptych!

In IC XC,
Marjorie
Thanks, Skete is an excellent site. Good icons and good prices. :)

[Marjorie]

Thanks, Skete is an excellent site. Good icons and good prices. :)

Yes, I've gotten most of my icons from there. It's a great resource.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[choirfiend]

There's also a TON of icons available here

http://www.archangelsbooks.com/categories.asp?cat=160

[Zacharias]

There's also a TON of icons available here

http://www.archangelsbooks.com/categories.asp?cat=160
Thanks :)

[Marjorie]

Brent,

I like your new deisis-esque-icon signature!

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Zacharias]

Brent,

I like your new deisis-esque-icon signature!

In IC XC,
Marjorie
Thanks! :)

[Xpycoctomos]

Personally, I would stay away from Coptic icons, unless you think it is okay to have Nestorian icons, and Arian icons (if you could find them), and any other sort of icons.

Since there is no shortage of Orthodox icons, why go for non-Orthodox icons?

I really appreciate the simplicity of them. Aren't their Ethiopian Orthodox who are canonically Eastern Orthodox (in communion with us?). Do they have icons in this style or do they just mimic the Greek style?

John