Things that are Adiaphora

[SPALATIN]

Here's a thread starter. Things we believe should or should not be adiaphora.

[Jenna]

rut roh...... *scampers off for the dictionary* I'll be right back!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Ok, this is for all the other people like myself, who needs to increase their vocabulary. :) ADIAPHORA (http://www.lcms.org/ca/www/cyclopedia/02/display.asp?t1=A&word=ADIAPHORA)

[C.F.W. Walther]

Singing a hymn in church---seriously. I had a cold one Sunday and didn't feel like singing. A lady opened up a hymnal, found the hymn, slid down the pew and gave me the hymnal and then glared at me. Don't really remember seeing THAT in the BIBLE. Maybe under making joyfull noise:) Should have blown my nose like a honker (joyfull noise?).......hmmmm.

[ByzantineDixie]

Leitourgia Divina adiaphora non est.

www.gottesdienst.org (http://www.gottesdienst.org/)

[LilLamb219]

Crossing ones self is adiaphora.

[filosofer]

Leitourgia Divina adiaphora non est.

www.gottensdienst.org (http://www.gottensdienst.org)

The form of the Divine Liturgy is adiaphora.

[C.F.W. Walther]

Leitourgia Divina adiaphora non est.

www.gottensdienst.org (http://www.gottensdienst.org)

I can't get the link to work. Are you saying the Liturgy is NOT adiaphora? If you are then I have to agree. In content it is truly biblical and mandated but in specifics it isn't.

[ByzantineDixie]

I can't get the link to work. Are you saying the Liturgy is NOT adiaphora? If you are then I have to agree. In content it is truly biblical and mandated but in specifics it isn't.

Sorry, I corrected the link but the right page isn't coming up...don't know what the deal is. Yes...the liturgy is NOT adiaphora.

[ByzantineDixie]

The form of the Divine Liturgy is adiaphora. What do you mean by "form"?

[filosofer]

What do you mean by "form"?

hmmmm, let's see.

TLH 5, TLH 15

LW 136 (Divine Service I), LW 158 (DS II, 1st Setting), LW 178 (DS II, 2nd Setting)

Luther's Deutsche Masse (DS III, LW p, 197)

The last one is quite different liturgically from the "normal DS".

So which one is the Divine Service, if it is not adiaphoron [singular Latin form]? And this doesn't address the Swedish, and other Scandanavian services.

[ByzantineDixie]

hmmmm, let's see.

TLH 5, TLH 15

LW 136 (Divine Service I), LW 158 (DS II, 1st Setting), LW 178 (DS II, 2nd Setting)

Luther's Deutsche Masse (DS III, LW p, 197)

The last one is quite different liturgically.

So which one is the Divine Service, if it is not adiaphoron [singular latin form]?

OK, thanks.

Well, its no secret I am not crazy about some of forms used by Lutherans today...but to say the forms may vary does not make the liturgy adiaphora, does it?

[filosofer]

And that is why I noted that the form of the Liturgy/Divine Service is adiaphoron.

Ever notice how often the word "is" becomes important in theology... and morality? ;)

[ByzantineDixie]

And that is why I noted that the form of the Liturgy/Divine Service is adiaphoron.


Ah...yes you did, smartie. I didn't catch that...that's what I get for trying to fly in and out of here quickly.....R

[filosofer]

The reason I note this point is that we have to be sure we are fighting the right battles. If we don't recognize the difference between what is essential and what is "indifferent" (adiaphora), then we play into Satan's hand by diverting from what God has given the Church to do.

If we fight over adiaphora, in the end we can fight against everyone/everything, and form our own church body, where everyone is exactly like us - I think that is part of the Great Commission, ultra-conservative style. ... I think that is found either in Matthew 29:38 or Hesitations 4:12... ya'll can look it up.

[ByzantineDixie]

Hey filo...when I quote you my posts are all red and green...like Christmas. :P

[filosofer]

;)

What???? Liturgical color is not adiaphora - get the Blue out here! Oh wait, traditionally it was purple. No, that's Advent. Christmas is white....

Carry on.... red and green work well... :D

[Jim47]

Hey filo...when I quote you my posts are all red and green...like Christmas. :P


Thats because of your cheerful diposition Rose.

Yer really a "peach" err I mean a "Rose"


Adiaphora! Going to church on a Wednesday instead of Sunday? I would sure miss Sunday service though. :preach:

[SPALATIN]

This has been quite a discussion so far. Rose and filo commandeered the thread for about 8 threads straight. Let's keep it going. For those of us who might be vocabularly challenged the word Adiaphora means that it is neither prohibited nor commanded by scripture.

[filosofer]

...the word Adiaphora means that it is neither prohibited nor commanded by scripture.

Well, technically not.

Adiaphora means "things indifferent" (adiaphoron is the singular), and refers to those things that are neither commanded nor prohibited in Scripture.

[SPALATIN]

Well, technically not.

Adiaphora means "things indifferent" (adiaphoron is the singular), and refers to those things that are neither commanded nor prohibited in Scripture.



Aghhh he's like me. He wants to be technical about it. Hey filo, if your wife says the time is 8:00 do you ever correct her and say "no, its 7:58", or "No it's 8:02".

;)

[filosofer]

Aghhh he's like me. He wants to be technical about it.

In this case, it is for a reason. In order to discuss theological topics, it is important to maintain consistent terminology (look what happened with one letter at Nicea). :)


Hey filo, if your wife says the time is 8:00 do you ever correct her and say "no, its 7:58", or "No it's 8:02".



Absolutely - that is not an adiaphoron! :D

[SPALATIN]

In this case, it is for a reason. In order to discuss theological topics, it is important to maintain consistent terminology (look what happened with one letter at Nicea). :)





Absolutely - that is not an adiaphoron! :D


I knew it.

[filosofer]

Another adiaphoron: adoration of Mary

[ByzantineDixie]

Another adiaphoron: adoration of Mary


Adoration...hmmm...maybe that's not the best word for it but certainly all generations shall call the Theotokos, the Mother of God, blessed.

From Luke 1:

41When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45Blessed is she who has believed that what the Lord has said to her will be accomplished!"
46And Mary said:
"My soul glorifies the Lord
47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant.
From now on all generations will call me blessed,
49for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.

But I promise I won't get into a Mary discussion in this thread...this will be it from me.

[filosofer]

What took you so long? ;)

I think there is a danger in some of the movements within Lutheran groups to over-emphasize Mary. And then we have to remember the Scriptural position. I indeed refer to Mary as Blessed, as Scripture, but not ever-Virgin.

Okay, enough for me too.;)

[C.F.W. Walther]

emaculate deception?


:/

[filosofer]

:)

[filosofer]

Other adiaphora:

Drinking alcoholic beverages (which becomes forbidden if excess)
Liturgical calendar
Church festivals/seasons (Advent, Christmas, Epiphany, Lent, Easter, Pentecost, etc; note that our weekly worship on Sunday is the only [by example] "observed" celebration of the resurrection")
Computer choice (but Macs will be used in heaven ;) )
Clergy vestments

[Protoevangel]

Other adiaphora:

Drinking alcoholic beverages (which becomes forbidden if excess)
Unless, of course, a teetotaler tells you that drinking is forbidden. Then you are under compulsion to drink around him!


Computer choice (but Macs will be used in heaven ;) )
But the Macs in heaven will be using Linux!

[SPALATIN]

Unless, of course, a teetotaler tells you that drinking is forbidden. Then you are under compulsion to drink around him!


Yeah that and heavy machinery. ;)

[Qoheleth]

The danger in the Lutheran church is that everything has become or eventually becomes adiaphora.

Q

[filosofer]

Or just as bad, making something that is adiaphoron and declaring it is absolute.

Neither extreme reflects God's Word.

[Qoheleth]

Absolute?? How about recognizing the Lord's grace and the fullness of the church that seeks to hasten the work of our Savior

Q

[filosofer]

Not sure where you going with this? Have I indicated anything other than that?

[Tetzel]

Is the belief in the virginity of Mary beyond the birth of Christ not adiaphoric?