Visited a LCMS church today

[Protoevangel]

Got there in time for Sunday School. The adult study was beginning an introduction to the Book of Concord. We went over some of the history of the book and Lutheranism. Next week we will begin with the Small Catechism.

Worship was good. Much the same as I'm used to. It was nice to have confession/absolution; I hear they have this every week. The sermon was good, and from the Word. The Law was not watered down, and the Gospel was really Gospel. The music was much more contemporary than I expected. Their Communion policy is that if you agree with a number of statements printed in their bulletin, then you are welcome.

They are beginning VBS Monday, and asked for my daughters to come. They don't charge anything, that's a nice change. The VBS stuff was all set up, and partially blocking the view to the altar. That was disappointing, but all in all, I really enjoyed being there.

I will continue going, at least to the Sunday School, while they are going over the Book of Concord.

[Tetzel]

Private confession?

What were those questions in the bulletin by the way?

[Protoevangel]

Private confession?
No, public confession. Even when we do have confession at my regular church, it is commonly followed by a kind of fuzzy feel-good speech, but rarely with any kind of actual word of absolution. This was a nice change.

What were those questions in the bulletin by the way?
Well, I'm doing this from memory, it wasn't a Communion service, but the Pastor showed me the questions in the bulletin for Communion Sundays. It was something very similar to:


We believe that the body and blood of Jesus are truly present in, with and under the bread and wine distributed in Holy Communion.
We believe that the Lord’s Supper is a participation in the body and blood of Jesus Christ.
We believe that receiving the body and blood of Jesus in faith brings us the actual and real forgiveness of sins.
We believe that there is a danger in taking the Lord’s Supper without acknowledging that the Lord’s body and blood are truly present in, with and under the bread and wine.
Whomever has faith in these words, "Given and shed for you" and "for the remission of sins" is truly prepared, but whomever does not believe these words, or doubts them, is unworthy and unprepared; for the words "for you" require all hearts to believe.
If you agree to and believe the above, we welcome you to Commune...
The above were the same points as in the bulletin, but I probably worded them a little differently.

[SPALATIN]

No, public confession. Even when we do have confession at my regular church, it is commonly followed by a kind of fuzzy feel-good speech, but rarely with any kind of actual word of absolution. This was a nice change.


Well, I'm doing this from memory, it wasn't a Communion service, but the Pastor showed me the questions in the bulletin for Communion Sundays. It was something very similar to:

We believe that the body and blood of Jesus are truly present in, with and under the bread and wine distributed in Holy Communion.
We believe that the Lord’s Supper is a participation in the body and blood of Jesus Christ.
We believe that receiving the body and blood of Jesus in faith brings us the actual and real forgiveness of sins.
We believe that there is a danger in taking the Lord’s Supper without acknowledging that the Lord’s body and blood are truly present in, with and under the bread and wine.
Whomever has faith in these words, "Given and shed for you" and "for the remission of sins" is truly prepared, but whomever does not believe these words, or doubts them, is unworthy and unprepared; for the words "for you" require all hearts to believe.
If you agree to and believe the above, we welcome you to Commune...
The above were the same points as in the bulletin, but I probably worded them a little differently.

Dan,

Did you actually feel that you believed the words the pastor spoke after the confession? Did you feel forgiven of your sins? What kind of feel-good speech does your own pastor give after confession?

Scott

[Protoevangel]

Dan,

Did you actually feel that you believed the words the pastor spoke after the confession? Did you feel forgiven of your sins?
Closer to the point, I knew I was forgiven. I believed the words the pastor spoke. I felt grateful and joyful that I was forgiven, but I also knew that the forgiveness was not based on those feelings; the feelings instead were in response to the forgiveness. If I had not felt anything, I would have still known and believed that I was forgiven.


What kind of feel-good speech does your own pastor give after confession?

Scott
Have you ever read any of Willy's posts? I have actually wondered once or twice if my pastor and Willy were one and the same, or at least if they attended the same seminary.

[Music4Hym777]

Closer to the point, I knew I was forgiven. I believed the words the pastor spoke. I felt grateful and joyful that I was forgiven, but I also knew that the forgiveness was not based on those feelings; the feelings instead were in response to the forgiveness. If I had not felt anything, I would have still known and believed that I was forgiven.


I love that feeling, that is how my pastor always makes me feel after the confession and absolution (which I love about my church, we do have confession and absolution every week, I dont know what I would do with out it).

Had I known that the ELCA were straying this far away from the true faith of Lutheranism, I would have been out a while ago, but my church is half LCMS and half ELCA (dont ask how it works, but it makes it so that we are LCMS on some views and ELCA on others and we all get along), the head pastor is ELCA (although he could fool you for an LCMS pastor except he does allow open communion) but the assistant pastor is LCMS and will tell you that.

[SPALATIN]

Closer to the point, I knew I was forgiven. I believed the words the pastor spoke. I felt grateful and joyful that I was forgiven, but I also knew that the forgiveness was not based on those feelings; the feelings instead were in response to the forgiveness. If I had not felt anything, I would have still known and believed that I was forgiven.



Have you ever read any of Willy's posts? I have actually wondered once or twice if my pastor and Willy were one and the same, or at least if they attended the same seminary.

There was a popular song in the 70s called "Little Willy" This was the refrain.

'Cos little Willy
Willy won't go home
but can't push Willy round
Willy won't go;
try tellin' ev'rybody

but
oh
no
little Willy
Willy won't go home.

Catchy theme eh. By the group that brought you "Ballroom Blitz" The Sweet.

[Flipper]

DanHead - it sounds just like my church. Glad you enjoyed it.

[C.F.W. Walther]

Me personaly, I don't feel as if I need to get reassurance from the pastor for absolution. I have that reassurance from God personally. When Luther set this confession/absolution into practice I feel the times warranted it with illiterate peasants, stressfull wars and the everpresent feeling that the RCC might try to overcome all this "reform movement" nonsense and pull them back into the fold and make them go to confession. It was an established practice with the RCC and Luther advocated it, as was the order of service parrarelled with the format of the mass. So I feel they just "went along" with the crowd. Give the new protestants a comfort zone to ease them into Lutheranism. I'm not trying to argue a point, I'm just giving my opinion and 2 cents worth....... probably not even worth that.

[C.F.W. Walther]

Dan sorry I got off the subject and I'm glad you enjoyed a truly LCMS/Christian experience even though I lean more to confessional/WELS format. There are still many LCMS churches that are staying conservative/confessional within the LCMS. God bless

[SPALATIN]

Me personaly, I don't feel as if I need to get reassurance from the pastor for absolution. I have that reassurance from God personally. When Luther set this confession/absolution into practice I feel the times warranted it with illiterate peasants, stressfull wars and the everpresent feeling that the RCC might try to overcome all this "reform movement" nonsense and pull them back into the fold and make them go to confession. It was an established practice with the RCC and Luther advocated it, as was the order of service parrarelled with the format of the mass. So I feel they just "went along" with the crowd. Give the new protestants a comfort zone to ease them into Lutheranism. I'm not trying to argue a point, I'm just giving my opinion and 2 cents worth....... probably not even worth that.

Ok, for you that's fine, but for many others it is a comfort to hear after making a confession of sin that they are forgiven for that sin. It helps to hear the word of God granting us forgiveness for our short-sightedness. If you feel that you can get that without hearing the Pastor, in the stead and by the command of Christ, tell you that your sins are forgiven great, but I know that for me it is still a great comfort to hear the words.

[ctay]

I still think its comfort hearing the words too, although I know God has forgiven me

[Protoevangel]

I can't imagine why anyone would not care about hearing those sweet sweet words...

[LilLamb219]

Me personaly, I don't feel as if I need to get reassurance from the pastor for absolution. I have that reassurance from God personally.

Really?

I personally cannot get enough of God letting me know I'm forgiven.

[ByzantineDixie]

There are still many LCMS churches that are staying conservative/confessional within the LCMS. God bless

And where might these many churches be? Just curious...are you from the upper Midwest?

I had a Lutheran pastor once ask where I lived...he was going to help me find a "good confessional" Lutheran church within a reasonable drive from my home. Never heard from him again....

[ctay]

The church I belonged to before and the one I'm at now do it. They are both in Alabama.

[ctay]

OOps made a boo boo.....:) made two posts the same!! Had to change this one. Sorry.

[ByzantineDixie]

whoops :sorry: made my own error and tried to respond to the wrong poster.

[C.F.W. Walther]

Here's some links and resources to churches still in LCMS

http://www.consensuslutheran.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Web_Links&file=index&req=viewlink&cid=1

http://concordtx.org/others.htm

http://user.txcyber.com/~wd5iqr/tcl/tcl.html

You might want to contact Daniel Pruess's office at this site for more info.

http://www.lutheracademy.com/index.htm

I'm assuming these church bodies in the list are all LCMS

[C.F.W. Walther]

If there are no confessional churches in your area LutherRose then a resource can be any WELS or ELS body

[filosofer]

Here's some links and resources to churches still in LCMS

http://www.consensuslutheran.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Web_Links&file=index&req=viewlink&cid=1

http://concordtx.org/others.htm

http://user.txcyber.com/~wd5iqr/tcl/tcl.html

You might want to contact Daniel Pruess's office at this site for more info.

http://www.lutheracademy.com/index.htm

I'm assuming these church bodies in the list are all LCMS


And don't be fooled. There are many confessional congregations in the LCMS that are not listed on these sites.

that is one of the problems: these sites sometimes give the impression that "if you are not part of them, then you can't be confessional Lutheran". Just ain't so.

[ByzantineDixie]

If there are no confessional churches in your area LutherRose then a resource can be any WELS or ELS body

Thanks, but WELS/ELS isn't an option...even if one was in our town. Where the LCMS has one set of problems due to waywardness, WELS/ELS has others that are inherent in the Synods' teachings. Thanks much, though. :wave:

[C.F.W. Walther]

And don't be fooled. There are many confessional congregations in the LCMS that are not listed on these sites.

that is one of the problems: these sites sometimes give the impression that "if you are not part of them, then you can't be confessional Lutheran". Just ain't so.


Yes you are right about LCMS churches NOT listed on confessional site. I don't see Jack Casione's, Herman Otten's and my church on the list. Couldn't get my pastor to submit our church to that list even though we are confessional/conservative.

[filosofer]

Yes you are right about LCMS churches NOT listed on confessional site. I don't see Jack Casione's, Herman Otten's and my church on the list. Couldn't get my pastor to submit our church to that list even though we are confessional/conservative.


Oh great, ;) :D you list Jack's congregation, but it is not LCMS anymore. And while Trinity, New Haven, MO is still LCMS, Herman Otten is not a rostered pastor of the LCMS.

But you are correct. And the congregations I have served and attended have all been confessionally sound, and they are not listed.

[SPALATIN]

I think that Jack's church is now just an independent if I am not correct please do so. He is still the owner of LQ though. Is Herman Otten a rostered Pastor of any synod or is he just causing trouble with PLI? ;)

[Melethiel]

So I also visited an LCMS church today. Overall, the wording of the liturgy was traditional, and I think the choice of hymns was better, in addition to there being a proper Confession/Absolution, which I liked. What threw me off though, was the lack of any kind of preface to Communion. The pastor just launched straight into the words of institution. There was no common cup, only the little plastic ones. The sermon was of about the same quality as I can get in my ELCA church, a bit worse even. As the only other LCMS church in this area is Ablaze!, it seems that I'm stuck in the ELCA for now (maybe I can get the person in charge of hymns at my church to pick them a bit more tastefully. :P )
:sigh:

[C.F.W. Walther]

I think that Jack's church is now just an independent if I am not correct please do so. He is still the owner of LQ though. Is Herman Otten a rostered Pastor of any synod or is he just causing trouble with PLI? ;)

Otten and his home church are figuratively back in the fold again allthough it just seems to be a patronizing effort to shut him up. It hasn't worked. He writes a publication called Christian News which has a circulation all over the world. Like Don Quiote he battles many windmills but unlike Quiote he seems to be winning some battles. Not with LCMS but with people/churches within the synod.
http://www.lutherannews.info/






:)

[filosofer]

Otten and his home church are figuratively back in the fold again allthough it just seems to be a patronizing effort to shut him up.

No, he has never been rostered. Yet his congregation continues as a member congregation. There have been specific LCMS rules that have been set up in response to HO, some as long ago as the mid 1960's.


It hasn't worked. He writes a publication called Christian News which has a circulation all over the world. Like Don Quiote he battles many windmills but unlike Quiote he seems to be winning some battles. Not with LCMS but with people/churches within the synod.


His writing of CN is deplorable; in fact, he would be rostered if he refrained from publishing it. He uses half-truths, etc. to raise doubts, fears, etc. Some of the concerns are legitimate - many are not.

I remember one time when I asked at a private (many in the room, but not open to anyone) meeting at seminary a question - my question and answer were published the next week in CN, without context, without trying to understand what the issues were.

Yet, I had the opportunity to meet him in person, and he conducts himself in a very Christian manner. If only they can pry that pen/typewriter/keyboard out of his hands! :crossrc: ;) :D