baptizism of the holy spirit

[CoveredByWings]

Our pastor was talking about this in my church today. How we as christians ask Jesus to be our savior the holy spirit dwells in us. Then we are baptized by water. well my question was Is asking Jesus into your heart sanctify you? or do you need to be baptized by the spirit and speak in tongs. please post as much info as possible.

[holo]

Faith in Jesus saves. It's much simpler than our many doctrines will have it. He said we should be like children. Kids don't define their parents and describe them with doctrines.

While the whole baptism thing is a hot potato, I'll suffice to say that blood is thicker than water, and that goes for salvation too.

[WesWoodell]

Our pastor was talking about this in my church today. How we as christians ask Jesus to be our savior the holy spirit dwells in us. Then we are baptized by water. well my question was Is asking Jesus into your heart sanctify you? or do you need to be baptized by the spirit and speak in tongs. please post as much info as possible.


Have you read Acts 2? Read it then tell me what it says the people did to have their sins forgiven.

[Stinker]

Our pastor was talking about this in my church today. How we as christians ask Jesus to be our savior the holy spirit dwells in us. Then we are baptized by water. well my question was Is asking Jesus into your heart sanctify you? or do you need to be baptized by the spirit and speak in tongs. please post as much info as possible.

Speaking in tongues was one of the evidences of having the 'power' (Acts 1:8) or (Holy Spirit). It is a metonymy that the Bible uses in regards to miraculous spiritual gifts. Having this gift never sanctified anyone. The evil Balaam, his donkey, and the evil messangers of Saul that were going to deceive David, all had the Holy Spirit.

Believers (intellectually & of the will) of the New Testament were already sanctified before they received the 'power' of the Holy Spirit. The exception of the one time only event of the Cornelius household, who received the Holy Spirit along with a measure of His miraculous power the very moment they came to faith. (Acts 10)

[Schroeder]

God saved us through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. God saves you by his Grace. How you believe in your heart John 3:16, at that moment the Spirit of God or Christ comes on you and cleanses your soul and you are saved. We would not receive this if Christ did not shed his blood for us and raise again. His baptism of the Holy Spirit his Rom 6 where we die and are risen in the spirit just as christ was. Titus 3:5, 1 Thess 2, 1 john 5:10, john 3,6. Acts 15 tells us that we are saved the moment we believe in our hearts about his son. In that moment the Baptism of Christ( the Holy Spirit) happens and we are cleansed.

[CoveredByWings]

Thank you for your responses. Im going to read acts tomorrow and ask God what it all means. I apprieciate your help.

God bless

[ImSoBlessed]

Speaking in tongues was one of the evidences of having the 'power' (Acts 1:8) or (Holy Spirit). It is a metonymy that the Bible uses in regards to miraculous spiritual gifts. Having this gift never sanctified anyone. The evil Balaam, his donkey, and the evil messangers of Saul that were going to deceive David, all had the Holy Spirit.

Believers (intellectually & of the will) of the New Testament were already sanctified before they received the 'power' of the Holy Spirit. The exception of the one time only event of the Cornelius household, who received the Holy Spirit along with a measure of His miraculous power the very moment they came to faith. (Acts 10)

the evil messengrs of saul never did have the holy spirit...they had a decieving spirit which was not holy...you need to ask God to show you the truth because saying that is treading on thin ice...

[SH89]

If water saves us, why doesn't God just throw us all in the ocean? Or, will God allow me to heaven if i take a shower and repent?

its silly to trust in water, or in ourselves to save us....

Ephesian 2:8-9 declares that For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

it is the Messiah, the Lord jesus Christ, that can only offer salvation. by his blood we have salvation,yet only applied when we believe

A good look into HEBREWS 7-10 will teach you a lot about Christ's sacrifice, the new covenant etc...

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

How is eternal redemption and everlasting life applied to a person?
In whom yea also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,-ephesian 1:13

He that believes on the son has everlasting life...john 3:36

Just to remind you, It is faith in the work of Christ on the Cross that saves us(rom 10:9)

Christ came to fulfill the law
to bring a permanent atonement rather than a temporary one...

Concerning tongues, no where in the bible does it state that tongues is required to prove that one has the spirit of God. It is the spirit of God that witnesses that we have him(rom 8:16). Tongues is a gift of God, which all believers do not have. 1 cor 12:30

[Apologetic]

"It is finished," (John 19,30) dear brother, also for you. Tongues and prophecy are gifts the Holy Spirit gives freely to Christians that we may build each other's faith and encourage one another.

Some people say that without the gift of tongues, you are not a true Christian, well I say "It is finished!" And it's all Jesus' work. He's my salvation, my sanctification, my life and atonement for my sins. That goes for you too, brother. The Bible doesn't say everybody can speak in tongues, it says "Does everybody speak in tongues?" that's a retorical question, saying - no not everybody. Some are given the gift of tongues, others are given the gift or prophecy, healing, or interpretation of tongues. The main purpose is that the congregation be strengthened and encouraged and that they may continue in boldness for the gospel.

Don't let anybody steal your assurance of salvation, lest it's a false assurance, and then God will let you know when you read the Bible. Let your assurance be built on nothing but Jesus' words "It is finished."

[Alex4Messiah]

If you're born again, you are the Child of God. But you need to be baptized in Holy Spirit to be able to walk in victorious new life. The evidence of His disciples being baptized in Holy Spirit was and is speaking in tongues. However sometimes people are looking for speaking in tongues instead of Holy Spirit Himself, although tongues are only the evidence. Seek you the Kingdom Of God and His righteousness. And you wil have also peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Shalom!

[Apologetic]

Dear Alex,
If you are born again, you are baptized in the Spirit. They are just two ways of expressing the same thing. Receiving the gift of tongues can happen long time after the baptism. Try to find in the Bible a place after Pentecost where Christ's disciples were baptized in the Spirit apart from being saved/born again.

What you will find is this:

1: The pentecost of the Samaritans/the disciples of John the baptist. This is just the Spirit breaking through to a new people - the Samaritans were "half-jews" and "half-heathen". They had some Jewish blood in them, and therefore it was natural for the gospel to come to them secondly, cuz they were kind of "caught in the middle".

2: The pentecost of the pagans. This is the Spirit breaking through with the gospel to the pagan peoples, with Cornelius and his house first.

Remember what Jesus said to His disciples before He went to heaven?

Acts 18,8: But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.

The Spirit came upon the peoples at different times: First the Jews (Jerusalem and Judea), then the half-Jews - the Samaritans, and in the end, to the heathen (to the ends of the world).

What you do when you say some Christians have been baptized in the Spirit and some haven't, you create a group of "elite Christians" and another group of "weakling-Christians". You say some are better than others and put those who have the gift of tongues closer to God than one who might have the gift of prophecy. This is wrong, there are no levels of being a Christian. Either you're a Christian, or you're not. Either you're in Christ, or you're not. There's ONE baptism, ONE Spirit and ONE faith, we're all one in Christ, but this doctrine splits the church in two.

It's not found in the Bible. None of the apostles ever say to Christians "You must be baptized in the Spirit", they say "Be FILLED with the Spirit", which is quite different. It means you get filled with the Word of God - you learn to know Him better and better and the Sword of the Spirit defends you in attacks from your flesh or the devil.

Saying you can be born again without being baptized in the Spirit is like saying to can go swimming without getting wet, like saying you can turn on the lights without using electrisity. It's impossible, because strongly connected. When you are born again, you receive a new nature - the nature of the Spirit, which wants to do what God wills, and wants to love Him and keep His commandments because He loved us first and sent His Son to make payment for our sins.

A victorious life as a Christian is not becoming righteous in your own eyes. A victorious life as a Christian is appreciating Jesus' death on the cross in your place more and more. The Spirit sets focus on Jesus as your Savior, because you are a sinner in need of salvation, and you will be so for as long as you live on this earth. When you finally get rid of your flesh - your sinful and evil nature - you'll be rid of your life on earth, praising God for His mercy in heaven, and you will be there because of what Jesus did on Calvary - nothing else.

The Bible DOES NOT SAY that unless you speak in tongues you are not a true Christian. It says 1Cor 12,30: Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

No, they all don't. Everyone gets their gift by how the Spirit in His wisdom sees is best for the Kingdom of God. You know what? The gift of prophecy is that of interpreting the Word - the Bible into today's situations and portraying Jesus in words from the pulpit as the crucified and risen Lord!

We are NOT to exalt ourselves with our gifts, saying "I'm better than you cuz I speak in tongues and you don't, you dry little thing!" I know of people who think that way and who simultanously say "Don't judge!" when it comes to criticism of their idols' doctrines and doings.

Just for the record, I'm a Lutheran and I pray in tongues. I thank God for this gift, though I don't know what good it has done me yet, cuz I don't understand what I'm saying. If you don't pray in tongues, don't be troubled, ask God for the gifts of the Spirit, but don't despair if He doesn't reveal your gift to you yet. He will when the time is right. He is the wisest of all and wants only what's best for you. Trust the Lord with all your heart and have no confidence in your mind.

[holo]

I never knew Lutherans could be so... well, un-boring.

Goes to show...

[Apologetic]

LOL the gospel is never boring unless you've lost sight of yourself as a sinner ;)

I'm afraid there are many Lutherans who have fallen away the last 20-30 years. many of the priests and bishops of the so-called Lutheran church of Norway wants to reconcile itself - not to God, but the the Roman church. I can see that happening if they split church and state. the Norwegian church will then be yearning for someone else to co-operate with. I wish it was more independant of politicians and more dependant on God...

[ImSoBlessed]

"It is finished," (John 19,30) dear brother, also for you. Tongues and prophecy are gifts the Holy Spirit gives freely to Christians that we may build each other's faith and encourage one another.

Some people say that without the gift of tongues, you are not a true Christian, well I say "It is finished!" And it's all Jesus' work. He's my salvation, my sanctification, my life and atonement for my sins. That goes for you too, brother. The Bible doesn't say everybody can speak in tongues, it says "Does everybody speak in tongues?" that's a retorical question, saying - no not everybody. Some are given the gift of tongues, others are given the gift or prophecy, healing, or interpretation of tongues. The main purpose is that the congregation be strengthened and encouraged and that they may continue in boldness for the gospel.

Don't let anybody steal your assurance of salvation, lest it's a false assurance, and then God will let you know when you read the Bible. Let your assurance be built on nothing but Jesus' words "It is finished."

speaking in tongues and the gift of tongues are different...why do people think they are the same?

[holo]

Bingo.

I don't pay too much attention to (church) politics though. If I can meet Jesus there, I'll go, whether it's in the state church or an AC/DC song or a pub.

[MJShields]

Thank you for your responses. Im going to read acts tomorrow and ask God what it all means. I apprieciate your help.

God bless
Thats the best response I've read all night...!!!!
"Read it and ask God about it"
To many people think that God is some far off unknowable unreachable entity that you can only theorise about. The spiritual realm is real and always has been, He is your father so treat him like he is. Ask him what he means. Thats what I did also and I feel that salvation is a proccess not an automatic ticket to heaven.
I think that there are four crucial points in acts that keep coming up, and they go like this..
REPENT (ask for forgiveness)
BELIEVE (in jesus)
BAPTISE (in water)
RECEIVE (the holy spirit)
Doesn't always happen in this order but the first two would have to i guess.
I feel that if you dont do all four then you're not running on all four cylinders so to speak. You can still go but just not as well as you could.
My wife and I are being baptised in water this sunday after having done the other three and we had a lot of guidance and study with church elders over the last few weeks so that we would know what were doing and why, and I cant wait, its going to be great!
The reason i mention this is that water baptism is important to do, I know its important because when we were preparing for this, Carol, an elder said that we would need support because things will happen to try to take you away from God and sure enough they did. We had a very hard fortnight just gone, so much so that on three occassions it almost tore our family appart. Why? because for one God was making us take responsbility for the worldly things I had been slack about, and for two, Satan used that open door to have influence on our lives, It was a very scary time, but God wont give you so much that you can not cope! Now that we are on the other side of that we are ready for our baptism. I believe that you need to have those four things to be able to stay on the path of being saved! remember that being forgiven is just the first step and so many people stop there and the wonder why they fall off later.
Your relationship with God is like a relationship with your own parent, You dont just treat him with respect once and then think you can treat him poorly for the rest of your life do you? you are being saved over the continuence of your whole life, the more you talk to that parent and praise them the more you get from that parent i think..

[Stinker]

Originally Posted by: Stinker http://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-by-right.gifhttp://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-top-right-10.gifSpeaking in tongues was one of the evidences of having the 'power' (Acts 1:8) or (Holy Spirit). It is a metonymy that the Bible uses in regards to miraculous spiritual gifts. Having this gift never sanctified anyone. The evil Balaam, his donkey, and the evil messangers of Saul that were going to deceive David, all had the Holy Spirit.

Believers (intellectually & of the will) of the New Testament were already sanctified before they received the 'power' of the Holy Spirit. The exception of the one time only event of the Cornelius household, who received the Holy Spirit along with a measure of His miraculous power the very moment they came to faith. (Acts 10)


the evil messengrs of saul never did have the holy spirit...they had a decieving spirit which was not holy...you need to ask God to show you the truth because saying that is treading on thin ice...

Then Saul sent messengers to take David, but when they saw the company of prophets prophesying, with Samuel standing and presiding over them, the Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul; and they prophesied. (1Samuel 19:20)

[Apologetic]

speaking in tongues and the gift of tongues are different...why do people think they are the same?

Why do you think they are not? I think that's a better question. When I read the Bible, I only see one kind of tongues unless other people tells me so. And I like having the Bible tell me things on its own.

Now, if you're referring to what happened at the pentecost of the 50th day after Jesus' ressurection, that they spoke different languages, I believe it was a miracle of hearing, because no one can SPEAK in different languages at a time. You only have one mouth. I find it most likely - from the text alone - that it was a hearing wonder, not a speaking wonder.

[RevKidd]

Read this thread I started on the Gift of Tongues and it's true scriptural purpose outlined by Acts and Corinthians...

http://www.christianforums.com/t1781608-tongues-purpose-use-distribution-scriptural-truths.html