Important question related to my family

[savedbygracebre]

I've now been a saved christian since dec. of 2004 and have since realized the many truth's that God wants me to know. I'm into his Word (including the j. mcgee versions of his bible translations and the good ole KJV) at least 2 to 3 hours a day. I do this out of desire because i love Christ and do want to walk in faith as God wants me to. Now the problem i have now is that even though my wife and her family believe in Jesus they are very much into this world and don't understand the concept of how we are not supposed to love the carnal things of the flesh. I have tried to stand in seperation only to continually get ousted from all sides for my beliefs. I've quit drinking completely, do not curse anymore, stay away from obscene lyrics or music, and also offensive movies. I call it living a "righteous life". Now the friends at my job who witnessed to me want me to go to their church which is a fundamental baptist church(i'm currently a catholic). I read their website and they believe in total seperation from the world-to the extreme-no movies, even g rated if the material is offensive, no music except church music(not even soft christian rock), women always wear conservative dresses all the time-no pants, women have to have long hair so as to not be like a man, men have to have short trimmed hair and cannot wear jewelry and can't even take off their shirt in public, obviously no drugs or alcohol of any kind, and etc.....
My problem is that because of my stand for Christ i have almost been divorced about 5 times and her family, who used to love me, kind of dislikes me now. And did i mention that i have two little beautiful children in my family? I can't stand the thought of seperation from them, but i know that by going to this new church would throw so much conviction on me that i could no longer be with my wife or family anymore. I desperately need some opionions from other people who have stood for Christ in my situation and how is the best way to handle this?
Thanks to all my christian btothers and sisters for taking the time out of your day to read this long letter.
God bless.

[New_Wineskin]

I've now been a saved christian since dec. of 2004 and have since realized the many truth's that God wants me to know. I'm into his Word (including the j. mcgee versions of his bible translations and the good ole KJV) at least 2 to 3 hours a day. I do this out of desire because i love Christ and do want to walk in faith as God wants me to.
...
I've quit drinking completely, do not curse anymore, stay away from obscene lyrics or music, and also offensive movies. I call it living a "righteous life". Now the friends at my job who witnessed to me want me to go to their church which is a fundamental baptist church(i'm currently a catholic). I read their website and they believe in total seperation from the world-to the extreme-no movies, even g rated if the material is offensive, no music except church music(not even soft christian rock), women always wear conservative dresses all the time-no pants, women have to have long hair so as to not be like a man, men have to have short trimmed hair and cannot wear jewelry and can't even take off their shirt in public, obviously no drugs or alcohol of any kind, and etc.....


A lot of rules in there . Did you come to Christ to do a lot of do's and don't a lot of don''ts or to have a relationship with the Lord ? You could have been doing those things ( or not doing those things ) before knowing Christ . You are the Lord's . He invites you to rest in Him .



Now the problem i have now is that even though my wife and her family believe in Jesus they are very much into this world and don't understand the concept of how we are not supposed to love the carnal things of the flesh. I have tried to stand in seperation only to continually get ousted from all sides for my beliefs.
...
My problem is that because of my stand for Christ i have almost been divorced about 5 times and her family, who used to love me, kind of dislikes me now.


Are you surprised ? You have been a Christian for a short time and yet consider that you have enough understanding to have the opinion that your wife and her family are "very much into this world" . Do you think that you can hide this opinion of them or that they would appreciate that opinion .



And did i mention that i have two little beautiful children in my family? I can't stand the thought of seperation from them, but i know that by going to this new church would throw so much conviction on me that i could no longer be with my wife or family anymore.


This group is into a righteousness by works . They are leading you away from the Lord . If you give them the chance , they will seperate you from your family . And , they will not stop giving you rules until you don't even question them ( if that hasn't happened already ) . You will be their slave - not the Lord's - *theirs* . If you don't leave now but wait until you have lost everything , you may very well blame the Lord because the group cost you your family and dignity .



I desperately need some opionions from other people who have stood for Christ in my situation and how is the best way to handle this?
Thanks to all my christian btothers and sisters for taking the time out of your day to read this long letter.
God bless.

Get away from that group . And , don't allow them to make you feel guilty for not being with them . Many people have been in your position and have only learned years later how harmful those groups are . Be with your family , love them and love the Lord .

Bless you and may He guide you into peace and joy and not works . :)

[holo]

savebygracebre,
live up to your username... :)

Why did you fall for your wife? Because the rest of the girls in the world were ugly and boring? Or was it her beauty (internal and external) that made the others pale in comparison?

Why did she make the choice to marry you? Did she have to separate herself from everything and anything to please you or be a good wife to you? Or did it come naturally?

Why do you love your kids? Surely they don't always respect you, surely they do things they shouldn't. What does being a parent mean?
Would you like them to do everything in their might to please you so they can honour you and be proud to say "I'm a real and devoted son of savedbygracebre"?
Or would you rather just extend your love to them, hold them, support them, and see them grow up to be straight and tall and strong simply because they've been spending time with you, and you being a loving and caring dad?

The reason I'm asking is that God portrays himself as our dad. Jesus is called prince of peace, shepherd, saviour, master etc etc etc. He is everything to everyone, covering our every need.
But I get the feeling that maybe God is first and foremost Lord and Judge to you, that you somehow must earn your place with him. But I don't think that's the case. He has already transferred us from the old to the new, from the earthly kingdom to the heavenly. The veil is torn, it is finished, we have been given the right to be called children of God, we are already born again.
And I can promise you, if you start realizing this, you will love the Lord like you never have before. You will start to act like the child you really are to him.
Just like your kids can never deserve your love. You'll always love them regardless of what they do, and you want them to know that, right? You'll want them to live right and honour you because they love you, don't you? Not because they hate the neighbour's dad. Not because they compare all the parents they see and cut themselves off from them so they can be with you. They're already yours!

You're not a perfect father, just as I'm not a perfect son, but my dad loves me even more than he loves himself. He loves me so much as to offer me trust and not just morals. He has his flaws, though. But God is the perfect dad, with perfect love.

[holo]

I just read new_wineskin's post and I agree.

"You are in the world but not of it" - I see that more as a statement of facts, rather than a command to remove anything that's not "godly" or "biblical" from your life.
Christ didn't abolish death, he overcame it. The chains of death couldn't keep him. And that's the same life that we have in us as believers. We are called to have faith like a mustard seed. Even a single straw of grass will break through the concrete - you don't need to demolish an acre of street to get the flowers through...

It is finished. Ponder on that. Accept that fact, if nothing else. Put your trust in it.

[New_Wineskin]

Good points , holo . :)

[savedbygracebre]

A lot of rules in there . Did you come to Christ to do a lot of do's and don't a lot of don''ts or to have a relationship with the Lord ? You could have been doing those things ( or not doing those things ) before knowing Christ . You are the Lord's . He invites you to rest in Him .




Are you surprised ? You have been a Christian for a short time and yet consider that you have enough understanding to have the opinion that your wife and her family are "very much into this world" . Do you think that you can hide this opinion of them or that they would appreciate that opinion .




This group is into a righteousness by works . They are leading you away from the Lord . If you give them the chance , they will seperate you from your family . And , they will not stop giving you rules until you don't even question them ( if that hasn't happened already ) . You will be their slave - not the Lord's - *theirs* . If you don't leave now but wait until you have lost everything , you may very well blame the Lord because the group cost you your family and dignity .




Get away from that group . And , don't allow them to make you feel guilty for not being with them . Many people have been in your position and have only learned years later how harmful those groups are . Be with your family , love them and love the Lord .

Bless you and may He guide you into peace and joy and not works . :)
You know it's hard for me to discern that they are actually cultish because of the fact that they take the KJV and live it exactly as it says you should.They are a new testament baptist church and go by some of the teachings of David Cloud. I came to know Jesus thru them and by getting into his word i have come to realize a tremendous amount of truths which have caused me to see things that my family does that is not good. They are like my old self-get drunk, gossip, curse like drunken sailors most of the time, and get angry sometimes over the smallest things(my family). So, with knowing what the word says and seeing how they act i have been a little judgemental towards their way of living. So, with the mess that i am now trying to fix(my judgements and self-righteousness), i know that going to this super strict type of faith would put so much conviction on me that it would be unbearable. The hard part is that they live by the true word of God and by not accepting their church would i be not fully honoring Christ as i should?

[savedbygracebre]

savebygracebre,
live up to your username... :)

Why did you fall for your wife? Because the rest of the girls in the world were ugly and boring? Or was it her beauty (internal and external) that made the others pale in comparison?

Why did she make the choice to marry you? Did she have to separate herself from everything and anything to please you or be a good wife to you? Or did it come naturally?

Why do you love your kids? Surely they don't always respect you, surely they do things they shouldn't. What does being a parent mean?
Would you like them to do everything in their might to please you so they can honour you and be proud to say "I'm a real and devoted son of savedbygracebre"?
Or would you rather just extend your love to them, hold them, support them, and see them grow up to be straight and tall and strong simply because they've been spending time with you, and you being a loving and caring dad?

The reason I'm asking is that God portrays himself as our dad. Jesus is called prince of peace, shepherd, saviour, master etc etc etc. He is everything to everyone, covering our every need.
But I get the feeling that maybe God is first and foremost Lord and Judge to you, that you somehow must earn your place with him. But I don't think that's the case. He has already transferred us from the old to the new, from the earthly kingdom to the heavenly. The veil is torn, it is finished, we have been given the right to be called children of God, we are already born again.
And I can promise you, if you start realizing this, you will love the Lord like you never have before. You will start to act like the child you really are to him.
Just like your kids can never deserve your love. You'll always love them regardless of what they do, and you want them to know that, right? You'll want them to live right and honour you because they love you, don't you? Not because they hate the neighbour's dad. Not because they compare all the parents they see and cut themselves off from them so they can be with you. They're already yours!

You're not a perfect father, just as I'm not a perfect son, but my dad loves me even more than he loves himself. He loves me so much as to offer me trust and not just morals. He has his flaws, though. But God is the perfect dad, with perfect love.
Thank you also for some very good points. I realize now that by me coming to grace that i have seperated myself way too far. Perhaps, if my family was already true God fearing christians , then they would accept the way that i am now with open arms. They live in this world with open arms-our savior says not to live in this world or love the things of the world. My question is at what point should i compromise my faith to appease them?

[holo]

I'm not so sure I agree with your impression that this church is living by "the true word of God". I've been under that kind of power myself, I "sacrificed" my CD collection in a fit of misunderstood spirituality and zeal, for example. Some of them will demand women to cover their heads and such. And it's oh so biblical, you know.

I still have a hard time trusting preachers now, especially if they present me with a lot of rules. I must go by the Spirit, walk, fall, get up, learn. In other words, live.

I think the whole reasoning is wrong; it puts demands on you that Jesus is supposed to have carried to the cross already. It denies God's ability to guide you personally by his Spirit, it reduces the word of God from a creating force into something that must be interpreted correctly by the clergy and presented to you.
And what scares me the most is that it is done with the best intentions. So I don't want to simply condemn these kinds of people. I've been one of them myself.

I don't think you should compromise your faith, and I don't think you have to. Your faith is your faith. I can have a beer with the best conscience in the world. If you can't, don't do it. And be careful that you don't expect unbelievers to act as if they were righteous and had the Holy Spirit to guide them. As my friend bottom_buzzer says, it's quite natural for the sinner to sin.

I'm a big fan of thinking for yourself and being led by the Spirit on a very personal level, day by day, in every situation. I don't think we're supposed to be dependant on following all kinds of rules - rather, it is love that is our standard. I don't judg myself as much based on whatever written or unwritten rule I break or keep, but whether or not I'm acting in love.
Love for my neighbour and love for God. Love doesn't mix well with being afraid of God or "his representatives". I've wasted too much of my life being scared of the world, satan, and most of all God. No more.

You are a child, you will grow. You are a branch on the tree, you don't bear fruit by yourself, it comes gradually, naturally and in good season. You didn't crawl up on the tree by your own effort, and you can't prune yourself. It's all HIS work, and in all our zeal and longing for righteousness and perfection and fruit, I think we often actually hinder His work in us. We're running around when Jesus just wants to sit with us and teach us. We don't shut up long enough to listen to what he has to say.

You, as a believer, have been restored to the state you were created to be in. There is no longer anything between you and God, nothing unsettled. Spiritually, you're in Eden IMO. So I think you can relax. You're free. God trusts you. He will not forsake or deny you because you take a wrong step. For all I know He may tell you to throw away your CDs. If he does, listen to him. I've found that a good way to recognize God's voice is that it's never ever condemning. He points at what's good, not the bad stuff. He's not interested in putting you down. If someone sends you on a guilt trip, it's most certainly not Jesus.
God will teach you the things you need to know in good time. Don't be afraid of life. You have abundant life in you. Don't be scared of the world, He has overcome it. Don't be afraid of God, he's a lot less judgmental and uptight than the average christian...

Sorry for rambling again.

[savedbygracebre]

I'm not so sure I agree with your impression that this church is living by "the true word of God". I've been under that kind of power myself, I "sacrificed" my CD collection in a fit of misunderstood spirituality and zeal, for example. Some of them will demand women to cover their heads and such. And it's oh so biblical, you know.

I still have a hard time trusting preachers now, especially if they present me with a lot of rules. I must go by the Spirit, walk, fall, get up, learn. In other words, live.

I think the whole reasoning is wrong; it puts demands on you that Jesus is supposed to have carried to the cross already. It denies God's ability to guide you personally by his Spirit, it reduces the word of God from a creating force into something that must be interpreted correctly by the clergy and presented to you.
And what scares me the most is that it is done with the best intentions. So I don't want to simply condemn these kinds of people. I've been one of them myself.

I don't think you should compromise your faith, and I don't think you have to. Your faith is your faith. I can have a beer with the best conscience in the world. If you can't, don't do it. And be careful that you don't expect unbelievers to act as if they were righteous and had the Holy Spirit to guide them. As my friend bottom_buzzer says, it's quite natural for the sinner to sin.

I'm a big fan of thinking for yourself and being led by the Spirit on a very personal level, day by day, in every situation. I don't think we're supposed to be dependant on following all kinds of rules - rather, it is love that is our standard. I don't judg myself as much based on whatever written or unwritten rule I break or keep, but whether or not I'm acting in love.
Love for my neighbour and love for God. Love doesn't mix well with being afraid of God or "his representatives". I've wasted too much of my life being scared of the world, satan, and most of all God. No more.

You are a child, you will grow. You are a branch on the tree, you don't bear fruit by yourself, it comes gradually, naturally and in good season. You didn't crawl up on the tree by your own effort, and you can't prune yourself. It's all HIS work, and in all our zeal and longing for righteousness and perfection and fruit, I think we often actually hinder His work in us. We're running around when Jesus just wants to sit with us and teach us. We don't shut up long enough to listen to what he has to say.

You, as a believer, have been restored to the state you were created to be in. There is no longer anything between you and God, nothing unsettled. Spiritually, you're in Eden IMO. So I think you can relax. You're free. God trusts you. He will not forsake or deny you because you take a wrong step. For all I know He may tell you to throw away your CDs. If he does, listen to him. I've found that a good way to recognize God's voice is that it's never ever condemning. He points at what's good, not the bad stuff. He's not interested in putting you down. If someone sends you on a guilt trip, it's most certainly not Jesus.
God will teach you the things you need to know in good time. Don't be afraid of life. You have abundant life in you. Don't be scared of the world, He has overcome it. Don't be afraid of God, he's a lot less judgmental and uptight than the average christian...

Sorry for rambling again.
Actually, don't feel sorry for rambling, because by reading your messages it shows me that you have some good spiritual insights. So, basically a person should live his life to bring honor to God, just live in his grace and not under a set of certain rules that expect you to fail at every turn? I understand the saying -saved by grace, not by works-they taught that to me(the fundamentalists), but the way i see i thru your eyes is to let Him guide you on your spiritual journey and don't live your life in an extremely "boxed-in" kind of spiritual life. Freedom from his blood on the cross-not chains from the burdens of living a completely righteous life. Correct? By the way, thanks for helping me out, your time is much appreciated. God bless.

[WesWoodell]

I would encourage you to ask yourself 2 important questions.



#1: What does this new church value more - rules or relationship?

Christianity is not about following a set of rules. Christianity is about being involved in a loving relationship with our Lord and Savior as well as the people around you. Of course we should follow the commands of Christ, but please be careful about judging those around you. If you have the Spirit, then it's fruit should be apparent to your family. Do not let Satan cause you to turn them away from Christianity by being a Pharisee.



#2: Does God want you to divorce your wife?



Let me share a few Scriptures with you ...

Malachi 2:16
16 "I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel ...
(NIV)

Matthew 5:31-33
31 "It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.'
32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
33 "Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.'
(NIV)

Matthew 19:3-12
3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"
4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'
5 and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?
6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
7 "Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"
8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
10 The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."
11 Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.
12 For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."
(NIV)

1 Corinthians 7:10-17
10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband.
11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.
13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him.
14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.
16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
17 Nevertheless, each one should retain the place in life that the Lord assigned to him and to which God has called him. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches.
(NIV)

1 Corinthians 7:27
27 Are you married? Do not seek a divorce.
(NIV)


I'll say a prayer for you. Please don't forget to pray for your family every single day!

Hope this helps in some small way. :)

-Wes

[New_Wineskin]

The hard part is that they live by the true word of God and by not accepting their church would i be not fully honoring Christ as i should?

From your own words , they are controlling and live the way of pharasees and not the Lord . Well , I have done my best to warn you . You *think* that you know the Scriptures from the little time that you have with them ( and with a version in a language that you do not speak no less ) . But , what about the Lord ? What has the Lord told you Himself ? This is about a relationship with Him - not a bunch of pages in a book . From how you look at your family , it shows how you think that the Lord looks at you . He wants you - those things and activities will take care of themselves . Those things that your family does shouldn't matter to you if you love them . If you make what they do as more important than their simply being with you , you will be driing them away . It will be *your* fault . Not the Lords or even the groups - but yours .

[Asaph]

Conviction and Condemnation.

Two similar sounding words that are actually polar opposites of one another.

Asaph

[savedbygracebre]

Thanks for all the replies. I haven't gotten back on here in a few days because it's been one of the worst weeks in my life. If it can happen-it's happened. With not going into details, i have decided to do everything short of comprising my faith to give this marriage a try. In prayers He will lead me as i know that divorce is not the best alternative when theirs two small children involved. God bless.