Poor People

[aReformedPatriot]

Being here in Canada on the mission field, it is interesting to see how money comes in and goes. But one thing I have noticed is two things: First, people who support you, or you think can support you, such as a few 'mega churches' we know with huge supplies of money, only want to hear the good about the ministry. If you tell them that a large portion your flock is scattered because of persecution, or that you are struggling financially, the response is generally "God is not blessing your ministry, perhaps you should pack up and come home." Now we know that this is bologna because we just can't pack up and abandon the faithful here and scripture tells of such things. Having experienced some of the 'bad' stuff and watched God provide everytime through some means, it would be a crime to abandon the church here. I've been here two weeks, we take it one day at a time, provision never ceases.

The second thing I have noticed is this. The biggest givers tend to be the poorest people. Some of whom give half thier income each month. Its amazing to watch and is a testimony of the greed that is among us. If you tell them your hardships, they get down on their knees and pray asking what else they can do. :)

The contrast to the church here and churches back home is huge. Back home I've seen churches split over something as silly as the style of music used to worship God. Up here the church endures insult after insult. People breaking into your supply sheds and trashing it. No indoor bathrooms in the winter because the cost to heat the place is too much and the tanks holding the water supply freeze in the arctic chill. Yet, people come. The church will endure, and a harvest will be reaped. :pray:

I am curious, why do you guys think the people who have the least, give the most? And is this a common thing?

- The Quitiatianti (derogatory, "White man's form of prayer/White preacher")
- TLE :)

[ZiSunka]

It's very true. The IRS says that the people in the bottom 10% of income in the US are most likely to tithe (about 30% give 10% or more to charity) and that only 3% of the households in the $75,000 to $100,000 brackets tithe. 60% of the households in that bracket give NOTHING to charity. Nothing, not even to gain a tax deduction.

When I go to rich churches to talk about my ministry, none has ever given more than $10 from the whole church. When I go to what would be considered lower middle class churches, it's not unusual for them to take up a special collection for Bread for the Brain and they always give in excess of $100 plus many books (cases full of them!). But the poor churches take up a special collection, do a fundraiser and give part of the church offering because they really really care about the other poor people in the world who don't have the word of God.

The truth is, the poor of the world have to rely on God not only every day, but every second of every day. When I was pulling down $60,000 every year, I wanted to spend most of it on me. I'd give, and a lot more than 10%, but in my heart, I saw it all as my money and I thoght I was really something for giving any of it at all. Now that I'm pulling in $7.10 an hour, I am constantly grateful that God keeps seeing to my needs. I constantly have to ask him to provide for me, and He's doing a great job! I want for nothing. I have plenty to eat, I can pay my bills, I have a little to spend on myself and I can still keep giving to God's work. I appreciate God more every day because I have to rely on him to keep me. I'm not so rich that I don't need him anymore. The greatest blessing in the world is to be dependent on God!

[arunma]

Personally, I think poor believers are the greatest of Christians, and I utterly reject the idea that "God wants you to prosper."

[MrJim]

When you live so close to the bottom you occasionally scrape a toe or knee it's easier to understand the "...do unto others..." rule since you can see yourself in the position of relying on others.

When you live high enough off the bottom then you can more easily make plans for that new car/house/vacation since the essential needs are easily met.

Love of money is a huge distraction and a pathway of destruction. But these days there is so much justification for the wealth that you are under suspicion if you are "poor", or rather if you don't fit in. My old minivan paint is faded and she's got 180K miles but other than that runs fine. Yet when I pull into the church parking lot I feel odd since there are not many other that look so rough. So I park facing into the field. And the elder justifies his Cadillac in that since it's better built than a Chevy it will last longer and be a better investment. Good stewardship, he says. Wonder if he's gonna put 250K miles on it? And in the mean time there's some beater church building scrounging for a roof and group of people lost in need of a missionary.

Sometimes I wonder if we won't all pay for this one way or another...

[arunma]

Sometimes I wonder if we won't all pay for this one way or another...

I think we will. I might not be wealthy by American standards (heck, I'm just a college student), but the mere status of being an American citizen makes me among the richest of people in the world. I have no doubt that in heaven, I will definitely be given far less honor than the poorest of Christians who live in third world nations. In many ways, I envy the fact that with such little money to worry about, many poor non-American Christians have much more time to dedicate to God.

[Carrye]

Matthew 5:3-11

Matthew 19:21-24

[arunma]

See why I like the Catholic Church?

[PapaLandShark]

Luke 21:1-6

[eldermike]

I am curious, why do you guys think the people who have the least, give the most? And is this a common thing?

]
JAS 2:5 Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?

[TwinCrier]

I think it's all about empathy. I remember an episode of Little House on the Prairie where the girls went collecting items for poor in a neighboring city. They shared with their ma that they observed that those who had less gave more then those who had a lot. The mother responded that those with less know what it's like to struggle and be without.
Christians really need to read the book of Job once in a while.

[Richard]

I think the poor give more because they are not caught up in the Rich Lifestyles you see today. Many Rich people don't give because they don't see a reason why they should have to. It is a common thing.

[MrJim]

See why I like the Catholic Church?

:scratch: :scratch: :scratch: ...I don't get it...

[arunma]

:scratch: :scratch: :scratch: ...I don't get it...

Let me elaborate a bit. While I disagree with many Catholic doctrines (trust me, I wouldn't want to be a Catholic), I greatly appreciate their concern for poverty. Of all the heresies out there, you'll rarely find a Catholic who embraces the Prosperity Gospel. We might have our theological disputes, but I give them credit where credit is due.

[9-iron]

Personally, I think poor believers are the greatest of Christians, and I utterly reject the idea that "God wants you to prosper."


As usual I have a different view! I was in a church for 3 years that preached poverty was a curse and the only way to get out was to tithe and give! Naturally the poor gave as much as they could hoping to escape their poverty. I also think this is widespread as well. Nobody likes being poor and I think these folks are often preyed upon!

I am currently in a Southern Baptist Church of about 300 members. The young people, say under 30 and the poor don't give hardly at all. The older crowd like 50 and older give and the wealthier folks always come through with some cash for whatever is needed. So I would say our church is in pretty good balance. Also there really isn't any criticism for those that don't give. Unless I am just blind to it. The most important thing is for everyone to get ministered to and find their place of service within the church.

[MrJim]

Let me elaborate a bit. While I disagree with many Catholic doctrines (trust me, I wouldn't want to be a Catholic), I greatly appreciate their concern for poverty. Of all the heresies out there, you'll rarely find a Catholic who embraces the Prosperity Gospel. We might have our theological disputes, but I give them credit where credit is due.

:clap:

I hoped you were headed in that direction! While there are obvious issues with gold crusted cathedrals the Catholics out there now and historically working with the "least of these" are doing great work. And it is a tremendous witness to me and the world. Mother Theresa, Father Damien, Catholic Relief-these are obvious. Then the hundreds (thousands?) of ministries working quietly to do God's will. We have a Catholic ministry for women and children that I pass by each day I come home from work.

Some would say that RC won't preach prosperity gospel since they want to keep their people enslaved but from what I see they'd get more $$$$ if they'd go the route of Big Money. It "works" for a lot of "successful" ministries.

[Carrye]

Then the hundreds (thousands?) of ministries working quietly to do God's will.

And isn't that the task of the Christian life? Unassumingly working within one's own community to improve one's own little corner of it? I can't fix the world, but I can make a contribution in the humble station that the Lord has placed me in life.

Catholic or otherwise, that is our task.

[novcncy]

I think we will. I might not be wealthy by American standards (heck, I'm just a college student), but the mere status of being an American citizen makes me among the richest of people in the world. I have no doubt that in heaven, I will definitely be given far less honor than the poorest of Christians who live in third world nations. In many ways, I envy the fact that with such little money to worry about, many poor non-American Christians have much more time to dedicate to God.

It's not how much you have, it's what you do with what God gave you. Remeber the widow with the two mites. Matthew 12, Luke 21 Think about the dependance and reliance on God that she was demonstrating. Can a rich person REALLY enjoy the prime rib that THEY bought, as much as the poor person can enjoy the chicken the God GAVE them? I think not.

Also, consider the parable of the talents. Matthew 25. I don't think we will all be judged, (i.e. corporately) but that God will judge us individually. Whether He gave us ten dollars, or ten million, He expects us to be good stewards of it, and we will definitely account directly to Him for how we handled His resources. I do agree that too many Americans consume their wealth, instead of utilizing it for God's glory and to spread the gospel, but we will all answer for our own actions, in the end.

[arunma]

It's not how much you have, it's what you do with what God gave you. Remeber the widow with the two mites. Matthew 12, Luke 21 Think about the dependance and reliance on God that she was demonstrating. Can a rich person REALLY enjoy the prime rib that THEY bought, as much as the poor person can enjoy the chicken the God GAVE them? I think not.

Also, consider the parable of the talents. Matthew 25. I don't think we will all be judged, (i.e. corporately) but that God will judge us individually. Whether He gave us ten dollars, or ten million, He expects us to be good stewards of it, and we will definitely account directly to Him for how we handled His resources. I do agree that too many Americans consume their wealth, instead of utilizing it for God's glory and to spread the gospel, but we will all answer for our own actions, in the end.

Yes, I agree with that. But I also think that most rich people are far worse stewards of their money than the poor. Certainly it is possible to be a good Christian who happens to be wealthy. I just think that such people are very hard to come by.

[novcncy]

As usual I have a different view! I was in a church for 3 years that preached poverty was a curse and the only way to get out was to tithe and give! Naturally the poor gave as much as they could hoping to escape their poverty. I also think this is widespread as well. Nobody likes being poor and I think these folks are often preyed upon!

I am currently in a Southern Baptist Church of about 300 members. The young people, say under 30 and the poor don't give hardly at all. The older crowd like 50 and older give and the wealthier folks always come through with some cash for whatever is needed. So I would say our church is in pretty good balance. Also there really isn't any criticism for those that don't give. Unless I am just blind to it. The most important thing is for everyone to get ministered to and find their place of service within the church.

If you're giving, hoping to get, then you're doing it for the wrong reason. God WILL take care of His children's needs. He will do it whether or not they give. The trick is that we in America don't have a realistic view of what a need is. There is nothing wrong with being poor. Is it the most fun way to live, definitely not. But you can be poor, and still have your needs met. (i.e. meals on the table, clothes on your back, loving relationships) American's don't see this. We've been programmed that unless you have the new four bedroom, 3 bath house, with the two car garage and the new cars to go in it, and brand new appliances, and a 68 inch plasma TV with a Dolby Surround Stereo system and an XBox and new carpet and new furniture and new china and silverware and crystal and crown molding and a huge redwood deck with the new stainless steel barbecue and a new lawnmower and a couple sets of golf clubs and the ability to go out to eat fourteen times a week.....unless you have all those things, then you have real NEEDS, man! That's why we lie when the guy who needs a bus ticket asks us if we have any spare change. We convince ourselves that it's because he's just going to drink it away, but the reality of the situation is that we are SELFISH!!!

I'm not saying that there is one single thing wrong with any of the above things I mentioned. Most of them, if not all of them, can be used to God's glory, and He will choose to bless many of us fortunate enough to live in America with those things. The problem is that we lust for them, and are not content to rely on God.

[novcncy]

Yes, I agree with that. But I also think that most rich people are far worse stewards of their money than the poor. Certainly it is possible to be a good Christian who happens to be wealthy. I just think that such people are very hard to come by.

Agree with you %1000 (and that's not an extra zero ;) )

[Richard]

well , well , I agree 100000% and that is two extra zeroes :P

[PapaLandShark]

Yes, I agree with that. But I also think that most rich people are far worse stewards of their money than the poor. Certainly it is possible to be a good Christian who happens to be wealthy. I just think that such people are very hard to come by.

Slight aside...this brought me back in memory to when my wife and I were watching Jesus of Nazereth. When the young wealthy man rides up and asks how he might obtain eternal life. Jesus says "Sell all of your belongings, give them to the needy, and follow Me". The young man says "What...all of it?" and Jesus smiles and says "Yes...all of it".

Bang...guy rides off in a panic.

Funny and so sad at the same time.

[9-iron]

If you're giving, hoping to get, then you're doing it for the wrong reason. God WILL take care of His children's needs.

This is where the predatory preaching really hurts poor people. They get hyped and give above their means and often times hurt themselves financially. God does deliever them, or at least the cases I have seen, but there is damage done to these honest folks.

He will do it whether or not they give.

You couldn't be more right!!

American's don't see this. We've been programmed that unless you have the new four bedroom, 3 bath house, with the two car garage and the new cars to go in it, and brand new appliances, and a 68 inch plasma TV with a Dolby Surround Stereo system and an XBox and new carpet and new furniture and new china and silverware and crystal and crown molding and a huge redwood deck with the new stainless steel barbecue and a new lawnmower and a couple sets of golf clubs and the ability to go out to eat fourteen times a week.....unless you have all those things, then you have real NEEDS, man!

Preach it!!!

I'm not saying that there is one single thing wrong with any of the above things I mentioned. Most of them, if not all of them, can be used to God's glory, and He will choose to bless many of us fortunate enough to live in America with those things.

I agree, those things aren't evil. It is the unhealthy desire for them that leads us into evil.

The problem is that we lust for them, and are not content to rely on God.

It is being pounded in us constantly and the lust for those things prey upon many of us!

[eldermike]

If you're giving, hoping to get, then you're doing it for the wrong reason. God WILL take care of His children's needs. He will do it whether or not they give. The trick is that we in America don't have a realistic view of what a need is. There is nothing wrong with being poor. Is it the most fun way to live, definitely not. But you can be poor, and still have your needs met. (i.e. meals on the table, clothes on your back, loving relationships) American's don't see this. We've been programmed that unless you have the new four bedroom, 3 bath house, with the two car garage and the new cars to go in it, and brand new appliances, and a 68 inch plasma TV with a Dolby Surround Stereo system and an XBox and new carpet and new furniture and new china and silverware and crystal and crown molding and a huge redwood deck with the new stainless steel barbecue and a new lawnmower and a couple sets of golf clubs and the ability to go out to eat fourteen times a week.....unless you have all those things, then you have real NEEDS, man! That's why we lie when the guy who needs a bus ticket asks us if we have any spare change. We convince ourselves that it's because he's just going to drink it away, but the reality of the situation is that we are SELFISH!!!

I'm not saying that there is one single thing wrong with any of the above things I mentioned. Most of them, if not all of them, can be used to God's glory, and He will choose to bless many of us fortunate enough to live in America with those things. The problem is that we lust for them, and are not content to rely on God.

I feel led to add; AMEN!

[eldermike]

Consider the rain. Where does it rain?

[9-iron]

Consider the rain. Where does it rain?

:mad: Not here and I am 30 days and counting. For us this is costing a bunch of $$$ each day it doesn't rain. I wished you hadn't mentioned it.

[eldermike]

:mad: Not here and I am 30 days and counting. For us this is costing a bunch of $$$ each day it doesn't rain. I wished you hadn't mentioned it.

Sorry about that.but remember it rains on the just and the unjust.

[9-iron]

Sorry about that.but remember it rains on the just and the unjust.



So can the good honest Christian farmer that tithes and serves faithfully blame his sinful neighbor for it not raining?:D

[eldermike]

So can the good honest Christian farmer that tithes and serves faithfully blame his sinful neighbor for it not raining?:D

Now you are with me:wave: I do hope you get rain soon.

[Richard]

Consider the rain. Where does it rain?

Around 6am in Bartlesville,Oklahoma... Today ;)

[ZiSunka]

Let me elaborate a bit. While I disagree with many Catholic doctrines (trust me, I wouldn't want to be a Catholic), I greatly appreciate their concern for poverty. Of all the heresies out there, you'll rarely find a Catholic who embraces the Prosperity Gospel. We might have our theological disputes, but I give them credit where credit is due.

You think their concern is more than our concern? And you got that from those quotes from the Bible?

[mesue]

... I am curious, why do you guys think the people who have the least, give the most? And is this a common thing? ...
FWIW
I give more now, than when I was in another denomination. It was equivalent to 1% But it was still more than what they told me I should be tithing (which is really weird because tithe means 10) I, had to also give by selling bell jar tickets in the beer tent, we didn't have bingo. I was earning less money then as compared to now.
There is nothing wrong with being poor. Is it the most fun way to live, definitely not. But you can be poor, and still have your needs met.
Amen. God has ALWAYS provided. Even when I sold my plasma, or took back bottles, to get bus fare to go to the Salvation Army to get food vouchers to get food and diapers for my son and me. He was there giving me the courage and wisdom to be humble and ask for help.
Some people stay poor because they want to, which makes it hard to help them because the fruit of our labor doesn't seem to be borne. It seems like the more you give the more they wallow in that mire.
Jesus said that we will always have the poor and that the rain falls on the just and the unjust. It is up to us how we deal with the poor as well as those that seem to have every earthly thing, except salvation which is worth more than the sum of everything in the whole wide world. The poor maybe rich in spirit, but the rich are poor in spirit.
Maybe that's why the USA is in such dire straits.

[arunma]

You think their concern is more than our concern? And you got that from those quotes from the Bible?

I do think that in general, Catholics tend to be better than the rest of us at providing relief for the poor. This might be in part because the Catholic Church is a large organization, and most Baptist churches are individual entities. But it never hurts to recognize our own faults, does it?

[9-iron]

This thread would be pretty interesting if you posted it in the WOF forum!!

[ZiSunka]

:clap:

I hoped you were headed in that direction! While there are obvious issues with gold crusted cathedrals the Catholics out there now and historically working with the "least of these" are doing great work. And it is a tremendous witness to me and the world. Mother Theresa, Father Damien, Catholic Relief-these are obvious. Then the hundreds (thousands?) of ministries working quietly to do God's will. We have a Catholic ministry for women and children that I pass by each day I come home from work.

Some would say that RC won't preach prosperity gospel since they want to keep their people enslaved but from what I see they'd get more $$$$ if they'd go the route of Big Money. It "works" for a lot of "successful" ministries.

I know the RC has a reputation for being there for the poor, but from what I have seen first hand, very much of the money that catholics give their church to assist the poor goes to administration and almost nothing goes to the people they are supposed to be helping. For instance, I know of two food pantries in adjacent neighborhoods in a certain large city. One is run by evangelicals and the other by catholics. The evangelican one has little money to run on, and only the director is paid (less than $7,000 per year for part time work) and all the other staff is volunteer, and many of the volunteers are clients of the food pantry. The total income from donations to this food pantry is under $25,000 cash and $15,000 in products but they assist 150 families a month with enough food to get them through a week (an average family of 3 gets about six bags of food and household supplies like diapers and toilet paper). No family is allowed to come back more than 3 months out of every 6, so that no one becomes dependent on the pantry.

The catholic pantry publishes their annual report and they say they bring in $150,000 in cash and another $90,000 in donated products. They have a staff of 14 people, 7 full time and 7 part time. They say they serve 75 families in a typical month with enough food to get them through a week until their welfare kicks in, and then welfare pays the food pantry to give them food. No one is allowed to be served more than once unless they are receiving welfare or aid to families with dependent children so that the food pantry can receive this additional funding. They also receive direct assistence in personnel and food from Second Harvest and the Red Cross. In total for cash, products and in-kind, they are getting more than a quarter million a year, yet serving only half the clients at the same level and the evangelical food pantry does for less than 1/10 the cost.

When people would ask Mother Theresa why she didn't spend more of the money she received from people all over the world (it was in the millions every year but less than 20% was spend on direct assistance to the poor and sick), she replied that suffering comes from the hand of God and if the people were sick or poor, they needed to learn to use that suffering to purify their souls and that in her opinion, it would be wrong for her to spend money to relieve the suffering or else they would be cheated out of that which God had given them. (read some of her writings on the subject, she was very upfront about it, and that is why Princess Di and others stopped supporting her charity).

When my marriage was in trouble, my husband and I went to Catholic Social Services for help. We were very poor, our gas had been shut off, we couldn't pay the rent on time, our car had been repossessed, but Catholic Social Services refused to give us counselling unless we would pay at least $40 per hour (this was 20 years ago when my husband's hourly wage was around $7) Each week we became poorer and poorer and when we could no longer pay the fee, they cut off our counselling. They wouldn't help us get the gas turned back on or the car back, but a local pentacostal church heard about what we were going through and without us even asking (we didn't even know the church existed), they paid our gas bill and got us caught up on our car payments. They even arranged a lower rent without landlord and they made up the difference. We didn't even know they were doing it until the landlord told my husband. We were NOT pentacostal. We were catholic and the pentacostal church didn't care. They only knew that we were in dire need and had no other hope of help. I still don't know how they knew or why they helped us that way, I only thank God that after the catholic church abandoned us, they stepped in and showed us the real love of God.

So although there are some famous catholics who worked with the poor (most of those examples you gave are in the past tense by the way), the catholic church as a whole doesn't have an organized system for showing love to the poor or in helping to relieve the suffering of the sick. You are giving them way more credit than is warranted and discounting the work of evangelicals too much.

[Ginny]

I adore Little House on the Prairie!

I remember an episode of Little House on the Prairie....

[Ginny]

I do think that in general, Catholics tend to be better than the rest of us at providing relief for the poor.

I do not want to come across as harsh, but I feel this is the most discriminatory comment towards individuals outside of the Catholic Church.

But it never hurts to recognize our own faults, does it?

This comment comes across that oyu are speaking for others besides yourslef on this thread? How can you do this not knowing what we give to our own churches? This is judgemental towards individuals that are not Catholic...

Besides, why generalize givers as an entity, when people give as individuals? That is why this is a harsh generalization and discriminatory...Perhaps in what you have seen during your life, but not necessarily a factual statement generally speaking.:(

[MrJim]

I know the RC has a reputation for being there for the poor, but from what I have seen first hand, very much of the money that catholics give their church to assist the poor goes to administration and almost nothing goes to the people they are supposed to be helping. For instance, I know of two food pantries in adjacent neighborhoods in a certain large city. One is run by evangelicals and the other by catholics. The evangelican one has little money to run on, and only the director is paid (less than $7,000 per year for part time work) and all the other staff is volunteer, and many of the volunteers are clients of the food pantry. The total income from donations to this food pantry is under $25,000 cash and $15,000 in products but they assist 150 families a month with enough food to get them through a week (an average family of 3 gets about six bags of food and household supplies like diapers and toilet paper). No family is allowed to come back more than 3 months out of every 6, so that no one becomes dependent on the pantry.

The catholic pantry publishes their annual report and they say they bring in $150,000 in cash and another $90,000 in donated products. They have a staff of 14 people, 7 full time and 7 part time. They say they serve 75 families in a typical month with enough food to get them through a week until their welfare kicks in, and then welfare pays the food pantry to give them food. No one is allowed to be served more than once unless they are receiving welfare or aid to families with dependent children so that the food pantry can receive this additional funding. They also receive direct assistence in personnel and food from Second Harvest and the Red Cross. In total for cash, products and in-kind, they are getting more than a quarter million a year, yet serving only half the clients at the same level and the evangelical food pantry does for less than 1/10 the cost.

When people would ask Mother Theresa why she didn't spend more of the money she received from people all over the world (it was in the millions every year but less than 20% was spend on direct assistance to the poor and sick), she replied that suffering comes from the hand of God and if the people were sick or poor, they needed to learn to use that suffering to purify their souls and that in her opinion, it would be wrong for her to spend money to relieve the suffering or else they would be cheated out of that which God had given them. (read some of her writings on the subject, she was very upfront about it, and that is why Princess Di and others stopped supporting her charity).

When my marriage was in trouble, my husband and I went to Catholic Social Services for help. We were very poor, our gas had been shut off, we couldn't pay the rent on time, our car had been repossessed, but Catholic Social Services refused to give us counselling unless we would pay at least $40 per hour (this was 20 years ago when my husband's hourly wage was around $7) Each week we became poorer and poorer and when we could no longer pay the fee, they cut off our counselling. They wouldn't help us get the gas turned back on or the car back, but a local pentacostal church heard about what we were going through and without us even asking (we didn't even know the church existed), they paid our gas bill and got us caught up on our car payments. They even arranged a lower rent without landlord and they made up the difference. We didn't even know they were doing it until the landlord told my husband. We were NOT pentacostal. We were catholic and the pentacostal church didn't care. They only knew that we were in dire need and had no other hope of help. I still don't know how they knew or why they helped us that way, I only thank God that after the catholic church abandoned us, they stepped in and showed us the real love of God.

So although there are some famous catholics who worked with the poor (most of those examples you gave are in the past tense by the way), the catholic church as a whole doesn't have an organized system for showing love to the poor or in helping to relieve the suffering of the sick. You are giving them way more credit than is warranted and discounting the work of evangelicals too much.

Hmmmm, the devil's in the details (so to speak). I'm glad the pentacostal brethren were there for you when you needed them. I wonder if your experience is world-wide in the RC church...

[MrJim]

An excellent relief agency in Mennonite circles of course is Mennonite Disaster Service www.mds.mennonite.net (http://www.mds.mennonite.net/). They are definitely an above average agency giving a large % of donations to where they need to go.

[ZiSunka]

An excellent relief agency in Mennonite circles of course is Mennonite Disaster Service www.mds.mennonite.net (http://www.mds.mennonite.net/). They are definitely an above average agency giving a large % of donations to where they need to go.

Yes, MDS gives in excess of 90% of all donations to the actual needs and less than 10% to overhead and salaries.:clap:

[ZiSunka]

Hmmmm, the devil's in the details (so to speak). I'm glad the pentacostal brethren were there for you when you needed them. I wonder if your experience is world-wide in the RC church...

I forgot to mention that when we asked Catholic Social Services for help getting our gas back on (with a promise to pay them back), they said that they are not in the business of helping the poor with material needs and that they can only provide counselling to people who are able to pay because they have to be self-supporting, they get no money from the catholic church.

[MrJim]

Charitywatch rates relief agencies at www.charitywatch.org (http://www.charitywatch.org)

International Relief and Development
Mennonite Central Committee "A"
Lutheran World Relief "A"
Catholic Relief Service "A-"

Hey, an A- isn't bad but then why settle for that when you can use an A organization. And then there are a couple of A+ groups listed too

American Refugee Committee
International Rescue Committee

There are lots of A groups listed too.

ALL kinds of opportunities to give to effective & efficient groups!