Polish National Catholic Church

[Wigglesworth]

The PNCC seems like an interesting mix of conservatism and liberalism. Conservative views in terms of who they'll ordain, yet what I think would generally be considered to be a very liberal view of salvation. It's interesting, because it's so unusual nowadays to have churches that are staunchly both liberal and conservative. Usually they're one or the other, or perhaps simply open to both values, but it is interesting to see a church with solid stands on both sides, depending on the issue. Does the PNCC have open communion to all baptised Christians?

Any baptised Christian who believes in the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist is welcome to receive communion.

[Wigglesworth]

wigglesworth,, so you know longer believe in hell?

The question arises from the position taken on eternal punishment by the Polish National Catholic Church. Actually, the PNCC teaches that salvation is always dependent on each man's free will. However, it is possible that one may repent even after death. Therefore, the door to Heaven is never locked.

The PNCC does not reject belief in Hell. It does teach that people do not have to stay in Hell forever, hence the rejection of eternal punishment. Hell is real. The teaching is that God does not want anyone to stay in Hell forever - only until they repent.

[julian the apostate]

a wholesome doctrine

[Wigglesworth]

The question arose in another thread of why the PNCC is no longer a member of the Utrecht Union.

The official reason is that PNCC rejects the ordination of women. The unofficial reason is that certain jurisdictions of the Utrecht Union in Europe are beginning to open the doors to ordaining 'elephants' which PNCC does not agree with.

Both of these reasons are correct. During my catechetical instruction, my pastor mentioned the elephant specifically.

It is notable that the PNCC and the Roman Catholic Church have maintained a dialog for years about doctrinal issues and practices. The PNCC is specifically mentioned in USCCB (http://www.nccbuscc.org/whoweare.htm) materials addressing those outside the Roman Catholic Church who are allowed to receive communion in RC churches. That is one of the results of the PNCC being conservative on some issues, while being quite open on others.

[Fish and Bread]

The PNCC is specifically mentioned in USCCB (http://www.nccbuscc.org/whoweare.htm) materials addressing those outside the Roman Catholic Church who are allowed to receive communion in RC churches.

Interesting. Are Roman Catholics permitted by their own church to receive in the PNCC? I doubt they are, but I thought I'd inquire, since theoretically if they are this would mean that my Roman Catholic relatives and I could take communion at the same mass if we attended a PNCC church one weekend. Granted, since I disent from their views on women and homosexuals, among other things, and am happy as an Episcopalian, I wouldn't be interested in actually joining as a member, but it might be a good experience to attend a mass or two sometime. Are their masses done in English, Polish, or Latin? What rite do they follow?

I was surprised to read about their vision of salvation. To be honest, it's what I view as the most likely scenario and I was a bit surprised to see that a church actually officially teaches what I am inclined to believe in that regard. I say that with the caveat that I'm not yet fully convinced, that is just the way I'd describe the afterlife if someone held my feet to the fire (No pun intended ;)) and made me. :)

John

[Father Rick]

Yes, Romans are allowed to receive from the PNCC. In fact, if you look in the back of every Roman missal in the US in the 'Guidelines for the Reception of Communion', it specifically mentions the PNCC as one of those who are 'urged to respect the discipline of their own churches' and while stating that the PNCC may receive from a Roman Church, the canon cited also gives permission for a Roman to receive from the PNCC when necessary.

[PaladinValer]

That is an interesting belief about hell, Wigglesworth.

I have, admittedly, struggled with the concept of hell. I believe it is a just (although I disagree it has anything to do with physical punishment; my God is not so cruel) place for those who choose not to be in His Grace, but I have wondered whether a soul, once sent to hell after the Judgment, could sincerely repent.

Can anyone find revelant Scripture or Tradition and give a Reasonable argument using it?

[Wigglesworth]

There are some restrictions on Roman Catholics receiving communion from other than a Roman Catholic priest.

APPLICATION OF CANON 844.2 TO ROMAN CATHOLICS

Nothing is changed with respect to Roman Catholics seeking admission to the sacraments from priests of the Polish National Catholic Church, and the response from the Holy See did not touch that issue. According to Canon 844.2, Roman Catholics may approach the sacramental ministers of other churches only when four conditions are met:

when this is required by necessity or suggested by way of true spiritual advantage - a condition that might be met in a number of cases.
the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided - a condition that might readily be met in most cases,
it is virtually impossible (either physically or morally impossible) for Roman Catholics to receive these sacraments from their own minister - a condition that might be the least likely to be fulfilled since Roman Catholic ministers of the sacraments are generally present in neighborhoods where their Polish National Catholic counterparts are found, and
they seek them only of a church whose sacraments are valid - a condition which in the case of the Polish National Catholic Church is fulfilled.


The RC rules about a PNCC member receiving communion in an RC church are less restrictive, but the RCC expects that a PNCC member would only request sacraments of them on "certain occasions."

APPLICATION OF CANON 844.3 TO POLISH NATIONAL CATHOLICS

Certain specifications should be observed. First of all, this clarification responds only to the question posed concerning the Polish National Catholic Church in the United States and Canada. It does not address the status of any other church. Thus, for example, the Polish Catholic Church in Poland, which sprang from the Polish National Catholic Church and is now autonomous, is not included in this response of the Holy See, nor are the other churches of the Union of Utrecht. The specific pastoral context in which the question was raised concerned the fact that members of the Polish National Catholic Church sometimes found themselves in situations in which they did not have access to the sacramental ministration of their own priests. This pastoral consideration was the framework and the primary motive around which the response of the Holy See was made.

The decision applies to members in good standing of the Polish National Catholic Church who are not otherwise individually impeded by canonical sanctions of the Roman Catholic Church. This restriction would apply to those individuals who once were Roman Catholics and incurred a sanction which has not subsequently been lifted by the Roman Catholic Church. Such, for instance, would be the case of a Roman Catholic priest who set aside his priestly obligations without a dispensation. Others might be impeded from receiving the Eucharist because of their marital situation.

Roman Catholic sacramental ministers should all be advised by their pastors of this decision of the Holy See so they are prepared to apply it consistently and generously when the sacraments of Holy Communion, penance and anointing of the sick are requested of them by Polish National Catholics. Consistency of practice is very important in this matter, not only in centers where Polish National Catholics are numerous, but also in areas removed from such centers where Polish National Catholics, not having ready access to their own bishops and priests, may approach Roman Catholic priests with requests for the sacraments.

Sacramental ministers of the Roman Catholic Church may admit Polish National Catholics to the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick, when they ask and are properly disposed to approach the sacraments with faith, repentance, and a firm purpose of amendment (conditions which all Christians must fulfillin approaching the sacraments). No additional restrictions apply. The additional restrictions which do apply to Protestants (such as serious need of the sacraments and the inability to receive them from their own ministers, cf. canon 844.4) do not apply in these cases. It can safely be presumed that Polish National Catholics hold a faith in these three sacraments in harmony with the faith held by Roman Catholics, and ought not be questioned on this.

While the law of the Roman Catholic Church (canon 844.3) makes generous provisions, it should still be kept in mind that these cases are seen as exceptional, not as the norm. Normally Polish National Catholics, it is expected, will seek the sacraments from their own bishops and priests, and only on certain occasions approach Roman Catholic sacramental ministers.

Since full communion between our churches has not yet been achieved, in no instance is a Roman Catholic priest permitted to concelebrate the Eucharist with Polish National Catholic priests (canon 908).



From the Archdiocese of Boston website (http://www.rcab.org/EandI/resources.html).

So, John, you and your family would be welcome to receive communion from a PNCC perspective, but they may not be allowed according the the RCC canons.

The PNCC liturgy is in the vernacular, which is English where I go. However, a short portion of the service, the Asperges (where the priest throws holy water around), is in Polish just as a matter of local custom.

:)

[Fish and Bread]

Yes, Romans are allowed to receive from the PNCC. In fact, if you look in the back of every Roman missal in the US in the 'Guidelines for the Reception of Communion', it specifically mentions the PNCC as one of those who are 'urged to respect the discipline of their own churches' and while stating that the PNCC may receive from a Roman Church, the canon cited also gives permission for a Roman to receive from the PNCC when necessary.

Thank you, Father. I will look into whether there is a PNCC parish in my area and whether some of my relatives might be interesting in attending a PNCC mass with me sometime. It would be a good experience to be able to all take communion together, if they are interested. They're pretty conservative and would probably prefer to receive only in an RCC parish except in an emergency, though (Which I'm guessing is probably the condition the canon places on it anyhow). Even if they don't want to, however, it's a good thing to know in any event, since one never knows when information like that will come in handy, and I enjoy learning about things of that nature even if I never get a chance to apply the information. :)

John

[Wigglesworth]

This is the nicer version mentioned by Father Rick in an earlier post. You might see this if you go to an RC mass:

For our fellow Christians



We welcome our fellow Christians to this celebration of the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters. We pray that our common baptism and the action of the Holy Spirit in this Eucharist will draw us closer to one another and begin to dispel the sad divisions which separate us. We pray that these will lessen and finally disappear, in keeping with Christ’s prayer for us “that they may all be one” (Jn 17:21). Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law (canon 844 § 4). Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of communion by Christians of these Churches (canon 844 § 3).

From the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops website (http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/current/intercom.shtml).

[Fish and Bread]

So, John, you and your family would be welcome to receive communion from a PNCC perspective, but they may not be allowed according the the RCC canons.

Oh well. Thanks for looking up the information anyhow. :)

The PNCC liturgy is in the vernacular, which is English where I go. However, a short portion of the service, the Asperges (where the priest throws holy water around), is in Polish just as a matter of local custom.

Cool. Is the service the same rite used by Roman Catholics currently, a modification of the old Latin rite, or it's own unique PNCC rite based on the ancient liturgy?

John

[cenimo]

There's some intersting stuff on their beliefs page:

http://www.pncc.org/who_beliefs.htm


Original Sin
The sin of the "first parents" does not pass to succeeding generations

Celibacy
Since 1921 our bishops and priests have been allowed to marry