Jesus was in hell three days?

[ZiSunka]

I'm listening to a teaching program on Family Radio right now and the teacher is saying that Jesus spent three days in hell, beginning with his suffering in the garden, continuing with the torture during his trial and ending with his resurrection on sunday morning. His basis for saying this is, "I will give no sign to this generation exept the sign of Jonah."

He says that being in the earth for three days doesn't mean being in the grave for three days, it means being in hell for three days since hell is under the earth.

What do you think? Is this clever and orthodox or just plain bizzare?

[Carrye]

I'm listening to a teaching program on Family Radio right now and the teacher is saying that Jesus spent three days in hell, beginning with his suffering in the garden, continuing with the torture during his trial and ending with his resurrection on sunday morning. His basis for saying this is, "I will give no sign to this generation exept the sign of Jonah."

He says that being in the earth for three days doesn't mean being in the grave for three days, it means being in hell for three days since hell is under the earth.

What do you think? Is this clever and orthodox or just plain bizzare?

I've never heard that particular explanation before. I'd be interested to hear how he explains your second paragraph there. I have heard the verse you quoted used in different explanations, but that just refers to the amount of time - 3 days - perfection.

[ZiSunka]

He said that the words, "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth," don't mean that Christ would be in the grave three days and nights, but that he would be in hell, since hell is in the heart of the earth.

[Carrye]

He said that the words, "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth," don't mean that Christ would be in the grave three days and nights, but that he would be in hell, since hell is in the heart of the earth.

But then he says that the event at Gethsemane on Thursday is included in that time?

[Âme douce]

But then he says that the event at Gethsemane on Thursday is included in that time?Spiritually speaking perhaps?

[Willtor]

When he says that he'll be "in the earth," he's talking about death. The conception of Hell is/was that it exists deep in the Earth, even if it's doesn't, really. The Scriptures never explicitly say that Jesus was in Hell, though I think it's pretty clearly indicated. Certainly, the fourth century Church thought it was important enough of a doctrine to put it in the Apostle's Creed.

As for the three days reference, he was dead for part of Friday, all of Saturday, and part of Sunday. I think he was very much present on Earth during his Passion.

[ZiSunka]

But then he says that the event at Gethsemane on Thursday is included in that time?

Yep. He said Jesus's time in hell began in the garden and ended at the resurrection and the Christ was literally in hell the whole time.

But even then, if the garden happened on Thursday night, (first night) the trial early Friday morning, the crucifixion on Friday, the burial on Friday night, (first day, second night), in the grave Saturday daytime and night time and resurrected before dawn on Sunday (Mary came to the tomb at dawn on sunday and found him already resurrected), (second day, third night) we're still missing a day in the three days and three nights scheme of things.

[A Brother In Christ]

I'm listening to a teaching program on Family Radio right now and the teacher is saying that Jesus spent three days in hell, beginning with his suffering in the garden, continuing with the torture during his trial and ending with his resurrection on sunday morning. His basis for saying this is, "I will give no sign to this generation exept the sign of Jonah."

He says that being in the earth for three days doesn't mean being in the grave for three days, it means being in hell for three days since hell is under the earth.

What do you think? Is this clever and orthodox or just plain bizzare?

The heart of the earth before Jesus dieing on the cross there was two parts down there...Abraham bosom/paradise for believers and Hell for unbelievers... 3 parts at least Deut 32:22


But Christ did preach to the disobeidance angels...1 peter 3:19-22 during this time...

He also was going up to the third heaven serval times before getting a glorified body...not really clear on the verses to explain this one

[ZiSunka]

So it is your opinion that Hell is at the center of the earth?

[Carrye]

Yep. He said Jesus's time in hell began in the garden and ended at the resurrection and the Christ was literally in hell the whole time.

Yeah, and that just doesn't "work."

I'm going to do a little research, and I'll let you know what I find. If anyone has a good commentary on Mt 12:40, that might be a good place to start.

[Carrye]

When he says that he'll be "in the earth," he's talking about death. The conception of Hell is/was that it exists deep in the Earth, even if it's doesn't, really. The Scriptures never explicitly say that Jesus was in Hell, though I think it's pretty clearly indicated. Certainly, the fourth century Church thought it was important enough of a doctrine to put it in the Apostle's Creed.

I agree.

As for the three days reference, he was dead for part of Friday, all of Saturday, and part of Sunday. I think he was very much present on Earth during his Passion.

He had to have been present on earth during his Passion, you're right. The seeming imperfection with the verse connection is the "three nights" part. Friday and Saturday are only two.

There must be an incredibly obvious answer that we're missing here. :scratch:

[eldermike]

Wednesday to Saturday.

(moving along now, so throw something if you want to, I'm not here:cool: )

[Carrye]

(moving along now, so throw something if you want to, I'm not here:cool: )

Will take you up on that. :help:

Maybe it's like the Trinity: 1+1+1=1

[eldermike]

Will take you up on that. :help:

Maybe it's like the Trinity: 1+1+1=1

Well, Jesus said this:
JN 11:9 Jesus answered, "Are there not twelve hours of daylight? A man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light. 10 It is when he walks by night that he stumbles, for he has no light."

In Gen we find that God called the light "day" and the darkness "night" (This was Jesus who gave these names)

So, it's either like the Trinity and beyond our ability to grasp, or, it's Wed - Sat.

I am ok with either one.

Mike

[ZiSunka]

I was figuring that had to be the answer. The radio pastor said that the scriptures refute everyone who believes in the Wednesday to Sunday thing because "heart of the earth" means Hell and Jesus started being in Hell on Thursday night and stopped on Sunday morning. He said Jesus didn't actually have to be dead because it is possible to be in Hell and still alive.

[9-iron]

Interesting. However, I am careful about 'pop-theology' and how some pastors have was of spiritualizing everything to make a point.

[2timothy223]

42And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"

43And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Luke 23:42-43

[Athanasian Creed]

(snip)

If anyone has a good commentary on Mt 12:40, that might be a good place to start.

In the whale's belly; in which he was a type of Christ's burial. Three days and three nights; that is, parts of three days and nights. The burial of Christ took place on Friday. That was reckoned, according to Jewish custom, as one day. Saturday, through the whole of which Christ was in the tomb, called the heart of the earth, was another day; and the Christian Sabbath, on the morning of which he rose from the dead, was the third day; or according to their mode of speaking, three days and three nights.

(Family Bible Notes)

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For as Jonas was three days, etc. See Jon 1:17. This event took place in the Mediterranean Sea, somewhere between Joppa and Tarshish, when he was fleeing from Nineveh. It is said that the whale seldom passes into that sea, and that its throat is too small to admit a man. It is probable, therefore, that a fish of the shark kind is intended. Sharks have been known often to swallow a man entire. The fish in the book of Jonah is described merely as a great fish, without specifying the kind. It is well known that the Greek word translated whale, in the New Testament, does not of necessity mean a whale, but may denote a large fish of any kind.

Three days and three nights. It will be seen, in the account of the resurrection of Christ, that he was in the grave but two nights and a part of three days. See Mt 28:6. This computation is, however, strictly in accordance with the Jewish mode of reckoning. If it had not been, the Jews would have understood it, and would have charged our Saviour as being a false prophet; for it was well known to them that he had spoken this prophecy, Mt 27:63. Such a charge, however, was never made; and it is plain, therefore, that what was meant by the prediction was accomplished. It was a maxim, also, among the Jews, in computing time, that a part of a day was to be received as the whole. Many instances of this kind occur in both sacred and profane history. See 2Ch 10:5-12; Ge 42:17-18. Comp. Es 4:16 with Es 5:1.

In the heart of the earth. The Jews used the word heart to denote the interior of a thing, or to speak of being in a thing. It means, here, to be in the grave or sepulchre.

{m} "as Jonas" Jon 1:17

(Albert Barnes Notes on the New Testament)

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For as Jonas was--"a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation" (Lu 11:30). For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly-- (Jon 1:17).
so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth--This was the second public announcement of His resurrection three days after His death. (For the first, see Joh 2:19). Jonah's case was analogous to this, as being a signal judgment of God; reversed in three days; and followed by a glorious mission to the Gentiles. The expression "in the heart of the earth," suggested by the expression of Jonah with respect to the sea (Jon 2:3, in the Septuagint), means simply the grave, but this considered as the most emphatic expression of real and total entombment. The period during which He was to lie in the grave is here expressed in round numbers, according to the Jewish way of speaking, which was to regard any part of a day, however small, included within a period of days, as a full day. (See 1Sa 30:12-13, &c.).

(JFB Commentary
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Ray :wave:

[Athanasian Creed]

Maybe it's like the Trinity: 1+1+1=1


No, the Trinity is 1 x 1 x 1=1 - the sum or the essence is always 1 not 3 yet there is still 3 1's or 3 Persons. Same substance, differing in subsistence. ;)


Ray :wave:

[DawnTillery]

He said that the words, "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth," don't mean that Christ would be in the grave three days and nights, but that he would be in hell, since hell is in the heart of the earth.
You hit that right on the nose!!!

[Pilgrim 33]

imo,

He went to the bottomless pit (Tartarus) and PROCLAIMED His victory to the evil (Nephilim progenitors) angels that were "locked in chains in everlasting darkness).
He didn't preach (ie for the purpose of offering salvation) to anyone.

[A Brother In Christ]

So it is your opinion that Hell is at the center of the earth?

It what scripture says not my opinion..

Matt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three night in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth

[eldermike]

42And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"

43And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Luke 23:42-43

Yep, this is my thinking also.

[PapaLandShark]

Yep, this is my thinking also.

Simply because I like tying myself in knots...Was this a "God" day or a day by man's measure? :)

[eldermike]

Simply because I like tying myself in knots...Was this a "God" day or a day by man's measure? :)
I think this:
1)Jesus knew how many hours were in a day.
2)Jesus said 3 days. That's 72 hours.
3)You can't get 72 hours between Friday Night and Sunday morning, it just will not fit.
4)Jonah has the same issue, it wasn't 72 hours. (This adds way to many other problems to address here)
5)Sunday was a work day, it's the first day of the week. (subject for a whole new thread, titled "how did we ever get here")
6)Men witnessed the resurrected Jesus and died horrible deaths in His Name believing that He had fulfilled the prophesy. (This is enough for me.)
7)We don't know how to explain the days/hours thing. (If you put all the people that know the answer in a different way, you would need a large room) I except this: from clip from the Nicene Creed: And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (This speaks of three days, not three nights)
8)There are as many theories as one wants to find explaing this in different ways, all supported by scripture.
10)Knot finished;)
:wave:

[Pilgrim 33]

There are as many theories as one wants to find explaing this in different ways, all supported by scripture.


eldermike,
Perhaps more apropos, "There are as many theories as one wants to find explaining this in different ways, all supported by twisting Scripture".

It is a universal and accepted learning method in today's Christendom to extricate lone phrases out of context to proof-text scripture thereby proving anything anyone wants to; iow, proof-texting allows everyone to create their own theology on the fly and, yes, it is most universally accepted, as shameful and pathetic as it is.

Best,
Pilgrim 33

[PapaLandShark]

:D :clap:

Thanks Mike!


I think this:
1)Jesus knew how many hours were in a day.
2)Jesus said 3 days. That's 72 hours.
3)You can't get 72 hours between Friday Night and Sunday morning, it just will not fit.
4)Jonah has the same issue, it wasn't 72 hours. (This adds way to many other problems to address here)
5)Sunday was a work day, it's the first day of the week. (subject for a whole new thread, titled "how did we ever get here")
6)Men witnessed the resurrected Jesus and died horrible deaths in His Name believing that He had fulfilled the prophesy. (This is enough for me.)
7)We don't know how to explain the days/hours thing. (If you put all the people that know the answer in a different way, you would need a large room) I except this: from clip from the Nicene Creed: And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (This speaks of three days, not three nights)
8)There are as many theories as one wants to find explaing this in different ways, all supported by scripture.
10)Knot finished;)
:wave:

[Willtor]

I think this:
1)Jesus knew how many hours were in a day.
2)Jesus said 3 days. That's 72 hours.
3)You can't get 72 hours between Friday Night and Sunday morning, it just will not fit.
4)Jonah has the same issue, it wasn't 72 hours. (This adds way to many other problems to address here)
5)Sunday was a work day, it's the first day of the week. (subject for a whole new thread, titled "how did we ever get here")
6)Men witnessed the resurrected Jesus and died horrible deaths in His Name believing that He had fulfilled the prophesy. (This is enough for me.)
7)We don't know how to explain the days/hours thing. (If you put all the people that know the answer in a different way, you would need a large room) I except this: from clip from the Nicene Creed: And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (This speaks of three days, not three nights)
8)There are as many theories as one wants to find explaing this in different ways, all supported by scripture.
10)Knot finished;)
:wave:


I just don't think that all of this is accurate. It's easy to say statements 7 and 8, but the fact is: it's conceivable that somebody might have an accurate understanding, and that the same person might have good reason for thinking it so. Take point 2, for instance; anybody who has done any anthropology knows that this isn't so. 3 days has only been understood to mean 72 hours as of very recently. Not that they thought it was 23 hours, before that, but that one "day" was understood as one, or part of one "day-time."

You are correct in showing it to become a central doctrine in Christianity (Nicene Creed), so it seems to me that somebody, at some point, understood what Christ meant. It is not inappropriate, then, that we try to find out.

[Pilgrim 33]

............................

[eldermike]

I just don't think that all of this is accurate

It's an accurate list of the issues.
On the hours issue: Check out John 11:9 -
JN 11:9 Jesus answered, "Are there not twelve hours of daylight? A man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light. 10 It is when he walks by night that he stumbles, for he has no light."

Jesus used light and darkness to describe a "day", that's pretty clear. The periods would equal 24 hours. In Gen. the night and day were named from dark and light.

You don't need to dig up anything to clearly see that the earths rotation in 24 hours was a day.

Because God is not bound by time is simply a truth, but it's not meant to be applied to everything we don't understand.
What we tend to do is defend traditions that scripture can't defend by making up amazing spirtual stories that can't be defended by either scripture or record of any type.

There are 72 hours between the middle of the week and the end of the week. Show me in scripture how to eliminate this possibility.

[novcncy]

trying to reason 2,000 year old another time another place another nation another people another religion another language with 21st Century Webster's Dictionary defining horribly interpreted colorful Middle Ages post-Catholic influences through a New Age biblical strainer of humanism is just plain messy.

That is awesome! :D I need to save that, maybe even put it into my signature.

To paraphrase another post, Jesus, and the people He addressed the prophesy to, knew exactly what He meant. They are the witnessess that prove His resurrection. Let's not get too wrapped around the axle here. It's an interesting topic, to be sure, but isn't it more important that Jesus rose again, just as He said He would? Titus 3:9?

[ZiSunka]

It what scripture says not my opinion..

Matt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three night in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth

Where does it say that "the heart of the earth" is hell?

[Pilgrim 33]

Matt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three night in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth

Where does it say that "the heart of the earth" is hell?

It doesn't say it.

in the heart of the earth means the grave, specifically (here), the tomb. There's nothing so mysterious or sinister, like the false pagan belief in hell, involved, intended or implied here.

[mesue]

I think this:
1)Jesus knew how many hours were in a day.
2)Jesus said 3 days. That's 72 hours.
3)You can't get 72 hours between Friday Night and Sunday morning, it just will not fit.
4)Jonah has the same issue, it wasn't 72 hours. (This adds way to many other problems to address here)
5)Sunday was a work day, it's the first day of the week. (subject for a whole new thread, titled "how did we ever get here")
6)Men witnessed the resurrected Jesus and died horrible deaths in His Name believing that He had fulfilled the prophesy. (This is enough for me.)
7)We don't know how to explain the days/hours thing. (If you put all the people that know the answer in a different way, you would need a large room) I except this: from clip from the Nicene Creed: And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (This speaks of three days, not three nights)
8)There are as many theories as one wants to find explaing this in different ways, all supported by scripture.
10)Knot finished;)
:wave:


I think it was a 3 day 2 night thing.
Maybe that's where hotels and cruise lines get that idea from.
Some of them feel like spending 3 days in hell. :sorry:

[ZiSunka]

I think it was a 3 day 2 night thing.
Maybe that's where hotels and cruise lines get that idea from.
Some of them feel like spending 3 days in hell. :sorry:

More like one day, two nights. Friday daytime, friday night time, saturday daytime, and he arose saturday night before dawn on sunday. Not even close to three days and three nights like Christ said he would be dead.

If Christ was wrong about how many days he would be dead (as well as how many days it would take him to "rebuild the temple," then how can we believe Christ was right about anything else?:scratch:

[Pilgrim 33]

The first thing, and also the most difficult thing, for us to do when we accept Jesus, is to put our pride aside, humble ourselves and submit our will to Him.

The first thing, and also the hardest thing, when we study the bible, is to put our know it all pride aside, humble ourselves by admitting it is our understanding of God's Word that is faulty, not His Word, and submit our will to Him that He may be able to teach us.

[eldermike]

The first thing, and also the most difficult thing, for us to do when we accept Jesus, is to put our pride aside, humble ourselves and submit our will to Him.

The first thing, and also the hardest thing, when we study the bible, is to put our know it all pride aside, humble ourselves by admitting it is our understanding of God's Word that is faulty, not His Word, and submit our will to Him that He may be able to teach us.

I agree:wave:

[mesue]

Friday, Saturday, Sunday morning Jewish time.

My Bible says 3 days, it was 3 days. If it was a Thursday, so be it. It does not change the fact that He did rise on the third day and is alive today and is seated at the right hand of the Father. My salvation is secure in that.

M't:16:21: From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
M't:17:23: And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.
M't:20:19: And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.
M't:27:64: Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.
M'r:9:31: For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
M'r:10:34: And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.
Lu:9:22: Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
Lu:13:32: And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
Lu:18:33: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
Lu:24:7: Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
Lu:24:21: But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
Lu:24:46: And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Joh:2:1: And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
Ac:10:40: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
Ac:27:19: And the third day we cast out with our own hands the tackling of the ship.
1Co:15:4: And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

[A Brother In Christ]

It doesn't say it.

in the heart of the earth means the grave, specifically (here), the tomb. There's nothing so mysterious or sinister, like the false pagan belief in hell, involved, intended or implied here.

when did jonah get buried?

[Pilgrim 33]

when did jonah get buried?
when did Jesus spend 3 days in a big fish?

[novcncy]

Jonah got buried after he died, most likely. ;)

But seriously, Hebrews talks about how Jesus, as our great High Priest, took the blood before God the Father, who accepted it as atonement for all sins. When did this occur? Wasn't this what Jesus did while his flesh was in the grave?