We are the Temple of The Holy Spirit, how literal?

[SonOfThunder]

1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

How literal do we take the indwelling Spirit of God with abuse of our body?

We are instructed to be ye transformed by the renewing of our minds,

Rom 12:2 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom012.html#2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God but what about our bodies?

is being overweight abuse of The Spirit?


James

[MrJim]

How literal do we take the indwelling Spirit of God with abuse of our body?


is being overweight abuse of The Spirit?


James

Yup.

I speak as one that falls into that category. While I hear there are heavy people that have glandular issues I can assure you my extra weight is not- it's ice cream and shoo-fly pie and cheeseburgers (these Pennsylvania Dutch people sure know how to eat!:yum: ) And it something I work at using these very verses. I am abusing by body and since it is a Temple of the indwelling Spirit I am abusing the Spirit's home. I was at chiropractor today because my lower back was troubling me-and it's related to being heavy. At 6' 2" I can carry 275 better than the 5'8" guy, but it's still way too much (when I was a runner I was at 185).

I've always had a problem with thick ministers-only that I look for someone more disciplined than me to minister to me. But God has used mighty meaty guys to minister to me as well, so I try to avoid prejudice just as I would want someone to hear me and not just judge the book by it's cover.

But remember that not all "abused temples" are abused on the outside-fear that which is not seen (anger/hate/lust) or shown on the outside.

[GreenEyedLady]

is being overweight abuse of The Spirit?


James

YES!
Proverbs 23:21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

I am doing this course online.
www.settingcaptivesfree.com (http://www.settingcaptivesfree.com)
There is a course called the Lords Table. I am going on my 9th day. It is awesome!

[Carrye]

How literal do we take the indwelling Spirit of God with abuse of our body?

Abuse of the body is bad for other reasons as well (though what you noted is certainly one of them). If we truly believe that we are made in the image and likeness of our Creator, then we should respect His creation. Man was given dominion over all the earth - and that includes his own body. But that dominion means stewardship. We are to be good and responsible stewards of the gifts He gives. Failure to do this can be sinful.

Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the cattle, and over all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the ground." God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them. God looked at everything he had made, and he found it very good. - Gen 1:26-27, 31

[ZiSunka]

1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

How literal do we take the indwelling Spirit of God with abuse of our body?

We are instructed to be ye transformed by the renewing of our minds,

Rom 12:2 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom012.html#2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God but what about our bodies?

is being overweight abuse of The Spirit?


James

Hi James,

Note that it says our bodies are the TEMPLES of the Holy Spirit, not the Holy Spirit itself, so being obese is not an abuse of the Spirit, but it is dangerous to our body's health. We should not sin against our bodies through sexual sin, but being sick or in poor health does not harm the Spirit.

[Carrye]

but being sick or in poor health does not harm the Spirit.

Right. We cannot change God.

[ZiSunka]

Right. We cannot change God.

Exactly, even if we bring the sickness onto ourselves by poor eating habits. We abuse our own bodies, thus the TEMPLE of the Spirit, but the Spirit is unaffected by it.

[Carrye]

Exactly, even if we bring the sickness onto ourselves by poor eating habits. We abuse our own bodies, thus the TEMPLE of the Spirit, but the Spirit is unaffected by it.

Which is an important distinction. Well said, LL.

[GreenEyedLady]

Exactly, even if we bring the sickness onto ourselves by poor eating habits. We abuse our own bodies, thus the TEMPLE of the Spirit, but the Spirit is unaffected by it.

This is well said.
Do you believe that gluttony might quench the Spirit?
If we are abusing the temple of the Holy Spirit wouldn't that be hard for the Holy Spirit to.....ummmm fill to the max?
Do you understand what i mean? There are times when I sin and I can feel that I have quenched the Holy Spirit because I have not yet confessed. Once i confess, then the Holy Spirit fills me up again. I don't know how to explain it without sounding like one can "lose" the Holy Spirit. You know that is not what I mean.
Ok I am now babbling.
Let me try it this way. Lets say I am not really hungry but I crave to be filled by something so I go to the pantry and I find a nice XL bag of M&M peanuts in there. Ohhhhhhh, my mouth waters and I tell myself, "Linda, now you know how addictive these things are!" Well I go ahead and eat half the bag. I was not hungry, I just craved something. This would be the perfect example of feeding my flesh. Now here is the kicker. What if that craving was really my soul needed nourshment from God's Word and not for food. What if I went everyday feeding my flesh more that I feed my spirit??
Ok then............If you can make any sense out of this I hope it helps.

GEL

[JimfromOhio]

Physically:
The most important Scripture in this regard is 1Corinthians 6:19, "Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?" Your body is a "good" and wonderful gift from God. Christians know that God is with them, they sometimes feel it is unnecessary to make needed lifestyle changes to help prevent such diseases saying that, "God will protect me."

Paul said, "But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection ..." (1Corinthians 9:27). The key word here is "discipline." Starting and maintaining a proper diet and exercise program involves more than anything else, discipline and caring enough for yourself (again, "...as you love yourself") to take care of yourself. You have to remember that exercise should not become an obsession. Paul wrote, "For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come" (1Tim 4:8). So Paul recognizes that physical exercise has some profit, it is important. But there are also more important things in life; namely our relationship to God.

Spiritually:
By holiness (Temple of the Holy Spirit) does not mean I will be sinless but I can be blameless. My life as a Christian takes work and requires the commitment of my heart, mind and body.

Weeds of sin (old nature) can spring up and struggle against the fruit of the spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). I need to clean myself (2 Corinthians 7:1). How do I clean ourselves?

During my training for righteousness along with my struggles with sin, I need to have a “Christ-like attitude” (1 Peter 4:1-2). Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11:1 “Imitate me, as I also imitate Christ”. In Psalm 119:71 says, “It is good for me that I have been afflicted, that I may learn your statutes.” So, I should be glad and prayerful during my trials (Romans 12:12), be humble and draw close to God (James 4:7-10), imitate great faiths’ example of patience (James 5:10-11), be glad and joyful in all circumstances (1 Peter 4:12-13, 1 Thess. 5:16-17).

[GreenEyedLady]

I am amazed at how Gluttonly is rarley preached against in this country. Americans are the WORST for it!
When was the last time you heard a sermon about gluttony?

[9-iron]

I am amazed at how Gluttonly is rarley preached against in this country. Americans are the WORST for it!
When was the last time you heard a sermon about gluttony?



:mad: NEVER, but there are some things in church I can't do because I like to drink a beer every so often. I don't get drunk, I drink in the privacy of my own home and if it affects others I just don't do it. However, I am very open about it and some folks in my good ole Southern Baptist church I attend look down on me.

Fact is, these same folk spend half of Sunday afternoon down at Earl's all you can eat ribs! Then they whine and complain about high blood pressure and such! Drives me nuts. Kind of like the smoker who stops smoking and gains 70 pounds. Praise God, I quite smoking, won't die of cancer, but I might drop dead of heart attack from being a fatso!!!:mad: :mad:

Basically I am trying to take everything in moderation. Whatever, food, watching TV, internet, sports, hobbies, work around the house, reading, whatever. I am looking for balance that brings my body and mind into the peace of God. Not sure it all relates to the OT, but perhaps it does.

[SonOfThunder]

Hi James,

Note that it says our bodies are the TEMPLES of the Holy Spirit, not the Holy Spirit itself, so being obese is not an abuse of the Spirit, but it is dangerous to our body's health. We should not sin against our bodies through sexual sin, but being sick or in poor health does not harm the Spirit.

This is true, that we damage the Temple, not The Spirit.....however, the great commission does speak about 'go ye therefor' How can a sick body do this or someone so overweight they can no longer function?

I am amazed at how Gluttonly is rarley preached against in this country. Americans are the WORST for it!
When was the last time you heard a sermon about gluttony?

Never GreenEyedLady, :( we do hear about extending ourselves to others, taking in the poor man and clothing and feeding our neighbours/brothers, we cannot do this while we are gluttons and practicing self indulgence. The strongest case that can be made against gluttony concerns its effects on the body rather than the soul. When we are so focussed on self, it deflects our thoughts on higher things.


GLUTTONY

-General scriptures concerning
Ex 16:20,21,27; Nu 11:32,33; De 21:20,21; Pr 23:21;
30:21,22; Ec 10:17; Isa 22:13; Am 6:4-7; Lu 12:19,20,45,46;
21:34; Ro 13:13,14; 1Co 15:32; Php 3:19; 1Pe 4:3; Jude 1:12

-INSTANCES OF
Esau
Ge 25:30-34; with Heb 12:16,17
Israel
Nu 11:4; with Ps 78:18
Sons of Eli
1Sa 2:12-17
Belshazzar
Da 5:1

Just out of interest

Number 11:33 But while the meat was still between their teeth and before it could be consumed, the anger of the Lord burned against the people, and he struck them with a severe plague.

The plague fell before the people could even eat the food. The people were punished for coveting, not gluttony. Coveting is a craving for something forbidden by God. Gluttony is habitual over-eating. Coveting and gluttony are two very different sins. Gluttony is never mentioned in Numbers 11:33-34. The Bible is clear the people died for the sin of craving.

Also our Lord Jesus Christ was falsly accused of Gluttony

Mt 11:19 (http://www.htmlbible.com/kjv30/B40C011.htm#V19)The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.


James

[ZiSunka]

This is well said.
Do you believe that gluttony might quench the Spirit?

No, nothing we eat causes the Spirit to leave us. Remember when Jesus told the Pharasees that what goes into the body isn't what defiles people, it's the evil things they say that defiles them. (Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?" F32 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=mr+7:5&version=nkj&context=1&showtools=1#F32) 20 And He said, "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man." Mark7:18-23)


If we are abusing the temple of the Holy Spirit wouldn't that be hard for the Holy Spirit to.....ummmm fill to the max?

See the above scripture. Christ and the Spirit do not inhabit our stomachs, but our spiritual hearts.


Do you understand what i mean? There are times when I sin and I can feel that I have quenched the Holy Spirit because I have not yet confessed. Once i confess, then the Holy Spirit fills me up again. I don't know how to explain it without sounding like one can "lose" the Holy Spirit. You know that is not what I mean.

Maybe. Can you point out the passage of the Bible that condemns obese people or people who are not at their ideal weight?


Ok I am now babbling.
Let me try it this way. Lets say I am not really hungry but I crave to be filled by something so I go to the pantry and I find a nice XL bag of M&M peanuts in there. Ohhhhhhh, my mouth waters and I tell myself, "Linda, now you know how addictive these things are!" Well I go ahead and eat half the bag. I was not hungry, I just craved something. This would be the perfect example of feeding my flesh. Now here is the kicker. What if that craving was really my soul needed nourshment from God's Word and not for food. What if I went everyday feeding my flesh more that I feed my spirit??

Got it. I was that way with chocolate ice cream last night. I had worked all day in the hot sun and was exhausted and overheated so I bought a pint of chocolate ice cream that I didn't really need. But that is more of a symptom of a problem than a sin in and of itself. You ate the candy becaue you felt an empty place inside. You know that candy can't fill that emptiness, and eventually you found that out and I assume that when you realized that you were eating to fill a spiritual void, you went straight to the Lord and let him fill you. But suppose you didn't go to the Lord because you were mad at him for allowing you to have that emptiness--THAT would be wrong because avoiding God will never make you feel better and eventually you will get worse and worse instead of better. I believe that every Believer instinctively knows that their emptiness can only be filled by God and that overeating only delays going to God to be filled. The eating doesn't drive the Spirit away, our stubborn resistence to being filled by the Spirit keeps us empty, but it doesn't drive the Spirit away.

Sexual sin, however, pollutes our spiritual hearts, the place where the Spirit dwells, and He will not stay in a polluted place. Nothing we put in our mouths to eat pollutes our hearts, only that evil that we allow to remain in our hearts drives away the Spirit, and the moment we repent, He moves back in. We don't stay out of fellowship, we don't stay empty, food doesn't pollute us, even a lot of food.

[GreenEyedLady]

Very intresting LL.

Here is the defination of gluttony.

gluttony
GLUT'TONY, n. Excess in eating; extravagant indulgence of the appetite for food.
1. Luxury of the table.
Their sumptuous gluttonies and gorgeous feasts.
2. Voracity of appetite.

Proverbs 23:21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

It is compared with drunkeness in this verse which is way that we can by mouth defile the spirit. So, I guess jello shots would be included!
HAHAHAHA

Gluttony is an excess of food. God is convicting me now to stop eating in excess because it is not good for me!

GEL
Ps. I surely don't think that God condms obeses people, but if food is thier God, then I bet He wishes they would turn more to Him than to food.

[MrJim]

No, nothing we eat causes the Spirit to leave us. Remember when Jesus told the Pharasees that what goes into the body isn't what defiles people, it's the evil things they say that defiles them. (Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?" F32 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=mr+7:5&version=nkj&context=1&showtools=1#F32) 20 And He said, "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man." Mark7:18-23)

See the above scripture. Christ and the Spirit do not inhabit our stomachs, but our spiritual hearts.
.

Great post. I don't think any of us view the food as defiling but rather that spirit in our heart that moves us to gluttony. Food is sort of a neutral thing (well, except for those fast-food issues) but out of my heart I will over indulge. And that be defiling.

[ZiSunka]

Proverbs 23:21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.


Wow! I'm in real danger then, because I am very very drowsy right now! ^_^

[ZiSunka]

This is true, that we damage the Temple, not The Spirit.....however, the great commission does speak about 'go ye therefor' How can a sick body do this or someone so overweight they can no longer function?

My mom was still being a blessing to people even when she was in the hospital as she was dying of heart disease. She was very ill and her body didn't function anymore, but she was still a woman of faith and a light in the darkness to many people. Remember, it isn't only the people who go to foreign missions that are carrying out the great commission! My mom was able to bring the good news to people in her daily life, she didn't need to go anywhere but her own community and people loved her for her faithfulness in pointing them to Jesus.

[GreenEyedLady]

I am in the middle of my study and I wanted to post this verse.

Proverbs 23:2 And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite.

Let me copy and paste what I am reading.....

Overeating,starving or throwing up is a sin for the following reasons:

• Whether we eat or drink, or whatever we do, we are to do to the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31). God is not glorified when I evidence a lack of self control in my eating habits.

• My body is the temple of God (1 Corinthians 3:17, 6:19). The temple of God is not to be destroyed or defiled. Overeating or other sinful eating habits defiles the temple and if continued in can lead to it’s early destruction.

• Sinning leads to slavery (John 8:34). Overeating, like any sin, becomes addictive and can be extremely hard to overcome.

• Jesus told us to take up our cross daily (Luke 9:23), and Paul told us to crucify the desires of the flesh (Romans 8:13, Colossians 3:5). Overeating is when we gratify the cravings of the flesh rather than crucify them. This is sin. However, we are not at all saying that it is sin to eat when hungry. What we are talking about here, gluttony, is the habit of overeating and indulging our flesh, not the necessary requirement of daily nourishing our bodies when we feel hungry. Food is not evil. Eating is not a sin.

• There are many passages of Scripture which speak of the sin of “gluttony” and instruct us to avoid the path of the glutton (Proverbs 23:20-21) and to “put a knife to our throat” if we are given to gluttony (Proverbs 23:1). (The Merriam Webster Dictionary defines gluttony as "excess eating.")



hmmmmmmmmmm
I am telling you, this program is really teaching me a few things.
Gluttony is a sin, one that needs to be repented of, just like drinking.

GEL

[SonOfThunder]

I am in the middle of my study and I wanted to post this verse.

Proverbs 23:2 And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite.

Let me copy and paste what I am reading.....


hmmmmmmmmmm
I am telling you, this program is really teaching me a few things.
Gluttony is a sin, one that needs to be repented of, just like drinking.

GEL


good points raised there Mrs Gel (feel like I am talking to hair Gel) :sorry:

I thought it was sin to bring on early destruction by overeating or abuse of the body by what we put into it.


Thankyou

James

[GreenEyedLady]

good points raised there Mrs Gel (feel like I am talking to hair Gel) :sorry:

I thought it was sin to bring on early destruction by overeating or abuse of the body by what we put into it.


Thankyou

James

Hair GEL?
:scratch:
Maybe I should start signing.......... The Gelster

[ZiSunka]

So God can't love and use someone who is overweight? Are you serious?

Why put these extra rules onto our faith? Nowhere did God condemn obesity nor did Christ. In fact, when the phairasees tried to condemn Christ for eating too much, he condemned them for condemning others:

Matthew 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' But wisdom is justified by her children." F49 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=mt+11:19&version=nkj&context=1&showtools=1#F49) 20 Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent: 21 "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. 23 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be F50 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=mt+11:19&version=nkj&context=1&showtools=1#F50) brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you."

The desire to condemn people, especially for external appearances, is itself a condemnation of the very people who are condemning. That is, Jesus said not to judge, because by whatever standard you judge (on external appearance for instance) YOU bring judgment on yourself. So unless you ALWAYS perfectly appear to be like Christ, you yourself can never measure up and will be judged. If you always always behave like Christ and never slip or mess up, THEN you have nothing to worry about and can feel free to judge others based on their weight.

And lest you think that I must be obese and am trying to defend my own weight problem, I wear a size six in most clothing, either a small or an extra small petite, although today I bought a medium blouse because it was made in Peru and people and sizes are smaller there. Our average size 10 is a 48 there and our average American woman's size of XL is XXXL there.

I lovingly caution you to NOT use externals to separate the sheep from the goats, the ones God loves from the ones he has abandoned. By placing yourself on the judgment seat, you are dethoning God and that is a very, very precarious place to be! :eek:

[JimfromOhio]

God is definitely interested in what we do with our bodies. Apostle Paul reminds us that our individual bodies are the pieces that make up the entire collective Body of Christ, that me -- my whole self, me entirety, my soul, my physical body, my spirit, my strength, my love -- that's ME. When I become a believer, the Holy Spirit becomes a part of me -- is IN ME. God has invested in me. My talents, thoughts, abilities, gifts (both natural God-given and power from the Holy Spirit).

Basically, as a Christian, God is IN ME by my physical body -- after all, it IS my means of conveyance, how I communicate, how I am seen, how I do and think and feel. The Bible tells me how to please Him, what is appropriate for my body, and for my mind.

Romans 12:1-2 (NLT)
And so, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies to God. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice--the kind he will accept. When you think of what he has done for you, is this too much to ask? Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will know what God wants you to do, and you will know how good and pleasing and perfect his will really is.

[ZiSunka]

God is interested in what we do with our bodies, but it is still not right to judge a person's relationship with God based on what the mass media says is the ideal body type, would you agree?

Certainly God doesn't not watch The OC or Desperate Housewives and say, "Those are the ideal body types and everyone who's body is bigger than that is abusing the temple of the Holy Spirit and I cannot be with that person and therefore unless they lose weight I am going to have to cut Myself off from that person because I can only inhabit beautiful and healthy people!"?

[SonOfThunder]

So God can't love and use someone who is overweight? Are you serious?

Why put these extra rules onto our faith?

I lovingly caution you to NOT use externals to separate the sheep from the goats, the ones God loves from the ones he has abandoned. By placing yourself on the judgment seat, you are dethoning God and that is a very, very precarious place to be! :eek:

Dear lambslove

This thread was started out of curiosity as to what others thought about gluttony or being overweight in terms of our bodies being The Temple of The Holy (indwelling) Spirit. It isn't to judge or to say black and white that by abusing our bodies in any way is not Biblical.

The beauty of this forum is that we can come together and discuss without judging. Each of us read The Bible and if we are wise we ask The Holy Spirit to 'speak to us' about what we read. I am sure I am not the only person who has wondered about the things we read. Some here have come to conclusions, some have not. NONE judge. it's just a discussion board where we can grow and go back to GOD for clarification.


Basically, as a Christian, God is IN ME by my physical body -- after all, it IS my means of conveyance, how I communicate, how I am seen, how I do and think and feel. The Bible tells me how to please Him, what is appropriate for my body, and for my mind

I actually agree with Jim on this issue (FOR ME) My opinion on this is not essential to salvation, nor would I impart what I have gained from this discussion on others. Perhaps I might live longer, be more effective for our Great God. Thats why I will think about my health and what I put into my body for that reason only.

James

[GreenEyedLady]

God is interested in what we do with our bodies, but it is still not right to judge a person's relationship with God based on what the mass media says is the ideal body type, would you agree?

Certainly God doesn't not watch The OC or Desperate Housewives and say, "Those are the ideal body types and everyone who's body is bigger than that is abusing the temple of the Holy Spirit and I cannot be with that person and therefore unless they lose weight I am going to have to cut Myself off from that person because I can only inhabit beautiful and healthy people!"?


Lamb,
We are not discussing FAT people. We are discussing the sin of Gluttony. People can be over wieght and NOT be a glutton.
I think you are confusing the two. Gluttony is an eating over excessively. That is a sin because it is taking us away from God. To a glutton, food is thier God. Just like to a smoker, the smoke is thier God. Now they can both be saved, but the fact remains that the sin is a HUGE wedge in thier personal relationship with the Lord.

[Leimeng]

~ I know skinny people who are more gluttonous than fat people.
~ I do think that being overweight when you can control it does not glorify the Lord.
~ I have a friend who is a missionary in on Minanao Philippines. Every summer they offer to let others come from the States for short term mission work of two weeks or so. He talks about how many times he has to leave people behind at the 'base camp' because they are soo overweight and out of shape that they cannot physically handle hiking on foot to the churches in the countryside. Additionally, some of the people are so overweight that the locals cannot recieve ministry from them because they view their gluttony as being selfish and not honouring our Lord and Savior.
~ Given that I am from a 'large framed' family, I am aware of the struggles and issues that have to do with being overweight. I find that seeking GOD first, fasting, worship, prayer in the spirit, exercise, and using my brains all contribute to me loosing weight. When I start to ignore different aspects of that mix, I gain.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

[ZiSunka]

Lamb,
We are not discussing FAT people. We are discussing the sin of Gluttony. People can be over wieght and NOT be a glutton.
I think you are confusing the two. Gluttony is an eating over excessively. That is a sin because it is taking us away from God. To a glutton, food is thier God. Just like to a smoker, the smoke is thier God. Now they can both be saved, but the fact remains that the sin is a HUGE wedge in thier personal relationship with the Lord.

So a person who smokes is less of a Christian than one who doesn't smoke? A person who loves to eat is more of a sinner than a person who doesn't love to eat?

Just how much does one have to eat before they are a glutton? How exactly can a person be overweight and not be eating excesively? What is the difference between a fat person and a glutton? How can you tell if a person is a glutton or just fat?

Why are you focusing on the outside when God looks at the inside?

This thread is all about judging, that's all there is to it.

Truth is, there is no place in the Bible that says gluttony is a sin. That's an old catholic wives' tale, but not a real sin.

Instead of focusing on whether or not imaginary sins separate us from the Holy Spirit, why not discuss real sins, like the sin of...

[JimfromOhio]

The word gluttony is scarcely mentioned in the Bible, though Paul implores us to exercise restraint in the use of our bodies. In fact, the biblical writers encourage us to enjoy food as much, if not more, than they warn us against it. Food itself is not shunned in the Christian Scriptures.

How can we make this natural appetite serve us in our relationships with others and God, rather than our becoming its slave? While Christians might be appropriately concerned about fat, calories, weight, and appearance, we should be driven chiefly to develop attitudes of contentment, gratitude, trust, and patience. According to theologians, gluttony and lust both require bodily abstinence as well as a "fast of the soul," a double remedy for carnal thoughts.

In a wonderful book written by Dallas Willard, The Spirit of the Disciplines, we were created to be embodied beings; everything we do spiritually involves the body.

The health of all three of our aspects (body, soul and spirit) is important, with our physical health being the least important and our spiritual health the most.

[ZiSunka]

So the fruit of the Spirit is more important than eating fruit to lose weight? Hmm, I think you are right. If everyone in this thread who is so concerned that some people eat too much would spend as much energy on developing the fruit of the Spirit, everyone would be better off.

It is possible to be gluttonous yet have the fruit of the Spirit, so I still say that eating has nothing to do with whether or not the Spirit is with us.

[GreenEyedLady]

[QUOTE=lambslove]So a person who smokes is less of a Christian than one who doesn't smoke?
They are not less of a Christain, but they are sinning against God. They would not be in His perfect will. They would be serving thier flesh, not thier spirit.
A person who loves to eat is more of a sinner than a person who doesn't love to eat?
If the person places food above God, then yes they are in sin.
Just how much does one have to eat before they are a glutton?
Excessive overeating would be a sin. Sitting down and eating the whole quart of ice cream is a sin because you are no longer eating for nourishment but only to satisfy the flesh.
How exactly can a person be overweight and not be eating excesively?
Its possible.
What is the difference between a fat person and a glutton?
A fat person would be, well, just a fat person. A glutton would be any person that binges and purges, excessivly over eats, or starves them self.
How can you tell if a person is a glutton or just fat?
That would be between that person and the Lord. Its not for us to point fingers.

Why are you focusing on the outside when God looks at the inside?
Gluttony is an inward sin, not an outward sin. Once again you are talking about fat people and we are talking about sin. Why do you keep bring up fat people?

This thread is all about judging, that's all there is to it.

This is not true. You are the only one who has focused on the outside, mainly fat people.
Truth is, there is no place in the Bible that says gluttony is a sin. That's an old catholic wives' tale, but not a real sin.

You are wrong in saying its an old Catholic wise tale. Where did you hear that from? There is truth in gluttonly. What about if I starved myself so I could look thin? Is that a sin? What if I starved myself to the point where I got down to 100 pounds and I became ill? Regardless of what the scale says, your hurting/abusing the temple of God. It is a sin, and is compared to drunkeness. We all know we can be drunk on food.

Instead of focusing on whether or not imaginary sins separate us from the Holy Spirit, why not discuss real sins, like the sin of...

This is an important sin that is not talked about often and I believe is leaving many many christians stale in thier walk because they are so obcessed with food and dieting. This is not about vanity but about obcession. If american christains would focus more on feeding thier spirit than feeding thier flesh I belive revival would be ramped across the nation.

GEL