Vacation Bible School [Archive]

SPALATIN

27th June 2005, 08:46 AM

Last week I received my teacher's booklet to teach VBS at our church in late July. I am perplexed why it is that CPH would endorse this program when it is clearly a BAPTIST program.

I mean there is literally a page there that tells you how to "Lead a child to Christ." What is this? A Lutheran should not be teaching this way. They should be teaching that we are already God's children through our Baptism. Now if the child has not been Baptized we can introduce them to the faith and emphasize that Baptism is the beginning of the adventure.

I am going to have to re-vamp this to teach it the way that it should be taught.

KagomeShuko

27th June 2005, 12:25 PM

SPALATIN

27th June 2005, 01:00 PM

Scott, just wondering, what program is it?

Stein Auf!
Bridget

Gospel Light's "KINGDOM of the Son" series.

KagomeShuko

27th June 2005, 01:10 PM

Gospel Light's "KINGDOM SAFARI" series.
Oh, haven't heard of Gosepl Light before. . .I know safari theme is popular this summer, but I wonder why they wouldn't have chosen Group Publishing's safari themed program instead. :scratch: :confused:

Stein Auf!
Bridget

filosofer

27th June 2005, 01:29 PM

SPALATIN

27th June 2005, 01:53 PM

Oh, haven't heard of Gosepl Light before. . .I know safari theme is popular this summer, but I wonder why they wouldn't have chosen Group Publishing's safari themed program instead. :scratch: :confused:

Stein Auf!
Bridget

You are correct about Safari's being the main theme. WWW.GospelLight.com (http://www.gospellight.com/) is run by a Presbyterian group.

WWW.GROUPPUBLISHING.com (http://www.grouppublishing.com/) is doing "Serengetti Trek"

www.CPH.org (http://www.cph.org/) is doing Safari Adventure. Not a one of them is Lutheran in their theology.

I think that I am agreeing with filosofer about VBS. With only 20 minutes to even teach the lesson I don't feel that justice is being done by cramming a lesson into their tiny heads that they will forget by the end of the day.

Melethiel

27th June 2005, 01:58 PM

I was talking to a guy last night who's in charge of VBS, and the pastor's picked out the CPH program. He's thinking of rushing through the CPH stuff as fast as he can and focusing on Baptism.

My church doesn't have enough kids to run a VBS; they're just sending their kids to the UMC. :sigh: Probably wouldn't make much difference though, if all the curricula are the same.

Zoomer

27th June 2005, 02:11 PM

We did Lava Lava Island last year, so our church is trying to stay away from the jungle/tropical theme. Most of the churches around here are either doing the Serengetti Trek or the Safari Adventure. It seems like most of the Baptist churches are doing Ramblin' Road about making choices and decisions for God. We are doing Jerusalem Market place http://www.groupvbs.com/2005/HolyLand/biblepoints.asp?reload. I cannot find anything that I disagree with on this site so far and like how the Bible points are all about Jesus.

SPALATIN

27th June 2005, 02:44 PM

From what I have seen, it would be better to have a summer long program week by week program that is available to all in the community but is not compulsory. Also open to adults to come in. Maybe have an ice cream social and invite the local community to come for that and then stay for the bible study afterward. This would hopefully build the base for the congregation to reach out and get to know those who live in the vicinity of the building but are unchurched.

PurpleBunny

27th June 2005, 03:13 PM

My church Sunday School has an average weekly attendance of 25, plus about 8 youth, plus about 15 adults for a average total attendance of 40-50 in class on Sunday morning.

VBS has an average of 85-100 in attendance per evening. A lot of these are neighborhood kids whose parents don't like them going to Sunday School but who are perfectly fine with getting free babysitting in the evening for a week in the summer. Our church is in a very ethnically non-Christian neighborhood (mostly Sikh), so VBS is a great outreach opportunity.

This summer's program has to do with us people being sheep. The Bible Study leader for the kids is probably the most theologically grounded member of our congregation other than the Pastor (he's our Pastor's son and seems likely to go into that vocation himself at some point, although not in the near future).

LilLamb219

27th June 2005, 05:19 PM

Our VBS is the same in that we get a lot of kids that week who don't otherwise go to a regular Sunday School. I find that really encouraging to give them even a little bit of God's Word as opposed to completely starving them. I doubt VBS will ever be perfect, but it's a great conversation starter and helps me to ask parents to visit our church services...come and see :)

We did the Safari Adventure and the kids really had a great time. I took care of the crafts for the 3, 4 and 5 year olds. What an experience ;) LOL Sadly though, we spent so much time gluing during my half hour with each group of children that there was absolutely no time to talk to them about the program or even mention Jesus :( Last year was different and we had more opportunities to chat.

KagomeShuko

27th June 2005, 08:39 PM

You are correct about Safari's being the main theme. WWW.GospelLight.com (http://www.gospellight.com/) is run by a Presbyterian group.

WWW.GROUPPUBLISHING.com (http://www.grouppublishing.com/) is doing "Serengetti Trek"

www.CPH.org (http://www.cph.org/) is doing Safari Adventure. Not a one of them is Lutheran in their theology.

I think that I am agreeing with filosofer about VBS. With only 20 minutes to even teach the lesson I don't feel that justice is being done by cramming a lesson into their tiny heads that they will forget by the end of the day.
I don't think that cramming one lesson per day is the best decision, but I think it does help.

Group publishing is one of my favorite publishers for children's/youth/and family ministry.

However, it never comes before the recommendations from Augsburg Fortress or CPH unless I happen to be serving in a church where the pastor wants that. . .or something totally different.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

ByzantineDixie

27th June 2005, 09:05 PM

We just finished "Serengetti Trek" last week. Attendance was up 50% (68 kids on the day with the most attendance) and two families said they will be joining the church. I gather the program was extremely successful. The kids sang some of the songs at the church service this weekend--they were quite cute.

I don't know whether or not the program was Lutheran enough. A lot of the Christian Education offerings at our church are not Lutheran so it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't. They have a saying at my church...it's easier to take an interesting and fun Group program and make it Lutheran than it is to take a CPH Lutheran study and make it interesting and fun. I'm have no idea how successful they are...I just provide snacks.

KagomeShuko

27th June 2005, 09:12 PM

. They have a saying at my church...it's easier to take an interesting and fun Group program and make it Lutheran than it is to take a CPH Lutheran study and make it interesting and fun.

Sometimes, this is incredibly true. I don't know what CPH is offering this year. I didn't end up looking because the decision this year was to not hold VBS. :(

Augsburg Fortress was successful last year with the "Davey and Goliath" series and I saw many times voted best over Group Publishing's curriculum (a rare thing to happen). They did "Davey and Goliath's Circus Spectacular" this summer and we have the sample kit because it was one thing we ordered in case we did VBS and one thing we figured we could use for summer Sunday School if we didn't have VBS.

Perhaps I should look at the CPH site a bit more than I usually do. I might then "be in the know." ;)

Stein Auf!
Bridget

Flipper

27th June 2005, 10:46 PM

I am not a fan of VBS. It often deteriorates into a watered down approach to salve conscience when the church is not effectively evangelizing the neighborhood.

Perhaps the starting point is to ask in September of the previous year,

"How does VBS fit into our disciple-making life in this congregation?"

Or even more fundamental:

"Does VBS fit into our disciple-making life in this congregation?"

All I know is that it was fond memories of VBS at a couple of Lutheran churches growing up that led me to visit one and eventually become a member. Watered down? Maybe. I will admit it was more the music and the watermelon that gave me the fond memories - but they all led to many examples of Christian love shown to me. If it were any more complicated it might have gone well over my head - these are young children, you know. Getting into the fine points of the Book of Concord to 6 year olds might be a bit much.

filosofer

28th June 2005, 08:21 AM

All I know is that it was fond memories of VBS at a couple of Lutheran churches growing up that led me to visit one and eventually become a member. Watered down? Maybe. I will admit it was more the music and the watermelon that gave me the fond memories - but they all led to many examples of Christian love shown to me. If it were any more complicated it might have gone well over my head - these are young children, you know. Getting into the fine points of the Book of Concord to 6 year olds might be a bit much.

Note carefully, I made no comment about not having VBS, nor that only the BOC could be used - in fact, that would be a mistake. Rather, my comment had to do with "why?" of VBS. If it is important, and consistent with the mission of the congregation, then it ought to receive high priority, be planned well in advance, etc. Last minute drills to get teachers, begging people to help, etc. are signs that such forethought have not taken place.

Thus, my recommendation of starting the previous September, adequate review, preparation, and alteration of materials, teaching the teachers, etc. When I served on vicarage, we had a team write our own VBS programs, complete for each age group, including crafts, games, skits, etc. plus a corresponding adult study - best VBS materials I had ever seen. But this was all planned in advance, reviewed by the pastor and myself and the DCE. And teachers began reviewing the lessons in March and April; we had 450-500 children participate each summer. And it was important enough to do well.

And so, if you experienced a VBS program that drew you closer to God and the church - great! But so often VBS is like Sunday School: "We do it because we have always done it. Grandma will be disappointed that the kids can't experience what she experienced. etc...." In that environment, it becomes only a responsibility, or worse, a burden. Planning takes place in late June for a July event. Granted for a smaller VBS program (30-60 children) the long term planning isn't as crucial, but late June is too late to effectively have it reflect the mission of the congregation.

again, just some mumblings from an old codger...

Flipper

28th June 2005, 09:27 AM

I completely see your point, filosopher.

In a lot of cases, I think VBS is used as a break from the cost of daycare for a week, because admission is cheaper. Or, it could be a break for a stay at home mom (which was the reason why I was sent to every VBS at every church in town). Those aren't the right reasons, of course, but it did plant a seed or two in me, and few others, I'm sure. I know people have joined my church because they really liked the after-VBS church service - made them want to learn more about being Lutheran. There are more people in my church who came from a different denomination, than were originally baptised Lutheran.

Oh geez, just had a thought (and as usual, thoughts hurt). Maybe a good reason for keeping the VBS is to give others a more comfortable opportunity to see what a Lutheran church service is like, and to interact with other Lutherans.

SPALATIN

28th June 2005, 10:03 AM

I remember back when I was a kid and went to VBS at our church. Some years we would have a 2 week program which would actually be the ideal, but with summers being what they are it is hard to get that many kids committed to it. Not only that but a good number of teachers back then were from the youth groups. I wonder if that is still the case?

Flipper

28th June 2005, 10:52 AM

Thus, my recommendation of starting the previous September, adequate review, preparation, and alteration of materials, teaching the teachers, etc. When I served on vicarage, we had a team write our own VBS programs, complete for each age group, including crafts, games, skits, etc. plus a corresponding adult study - best VBS materials I had ever seen. But this was all planned in advance, reviewed by the pastor and myself and the DCE. And teachers began reviewing the lessons in March and April; we had 450-500 children participate each summer. And it was important enough to do well.

Our church runs it in much the same way - I think it's a group that meets year round on just VBS. The people who run it are either DCEs or they are teachers at local Lutheran elementary schools. The VBS is in July, and we start getting requests for help in March or April.

alabaster jar

28th June 2005, 12:55 PM

I have fond memories of VBS; back in my day it was always right after school was out for the year; for two weeks and in the daytime. Now we have it in the evenings==has a different feel and it's only for five days.

PurpleBunny

28th June 2005, 02:26 PM

In a lot of cases, I think VBS is used as a break from the cost of daycare for a week, because admission is cheaper. Or, it could be a break for a stay at home mom (which was the reason why I was sent to every VBS at every church in town).

Our VBS is in the evenings to encourage more parents to attend the Bible Studies ;)

ByzantineDixie

28th June 2005, 07:25 PM

In a lot of cases, I think VBS is used as a break from the cost of daycare for a week, because admission is cheaper.

As a working mother...I too sent my kids to every VBS we could find...but not because my cost of daycare was cheaper. (In fact, now I wonder why it wasn't!!! :scratch: My sitter never cut me a break on this...but she did take the kids to and from, along with the only other child she sat for, her granddaughter.) But...I sent the kids so they could get out and interact with other kids, to add some variety to thier day and also get some kind of exposure to faith--even though we were unchurched at the time, for some reason it just seemed like something we needed to do. The Baptists tried to get us to join their church but we were never even tempted. ;)

Flipper

29th June 2005, 09:15 AM

As a working mother...I too sent my kids to every VBS we could find...but not because my cost of daycare was cheaper. (In fact, now I wonder why it wasn't!!! :scratch: My sitter never cut me a break on this...but she did take the kids to and from, along with the only other child she sat for, her granddaughter.) But...I sent the kids so they could get out and interact with other kids, to add some variety to thier day and also get some kind of exposure to faith--even though we were unchurched at the time, for some reason it just seemed like something we needed to do. The Baptists tried to get us to join their church but we were never even tempted. ;)

I tried to come forward to be "saved" at an alter call at an AOG end of VBS service. I think I was 7 or 8. My mom snatched me and walked out. We didn't go back to that one.

ByzantineDixie

29th June 2005, 08:53 PM

I tried to come forward to be "saved" at an alter call at an AOG end of VBS service. I think I was 7 or 8. My mom snatched me and walked out. We didn't go back to that one.

^_^ Absolutely precious!!! I bet your mama didn't need her Catholic daughter responding to an altar call.

Which reminds me...Mom told me during my last visit home that she missed the old days when all she had to tell those who came to her door on evangelism calls that she was Catholic...that usually shut them up and sent them on their way. Now she says it only seems to encourage them to try harder!!! :eek: :D

KagomeShuko

29th June 2005, 09:05 PM

^_^ Absolutely precious!!! I bet your mama didn't need her Catholic daughter responding to an altar call.

Which reminds me...Mom told me during my last visit home that she missed the old days when all she had to tell those who came to her door on evangelism calls that she was Catholic...that usually shut them up and sent them on their way. Now she says it only seems to encourage them to try harder!!! :eek: :D
I've experienced THOSE people. They really do go, "Oh no, you're Catholic! How terrible!" :eek:

I was visiting one of those youth services with a friend and another gal next to us was a Catholic. . .it was horrible. . .

Stein Auf!
Bridget

C.F.W. Walther

8th July 2005, 03:52 PM

I am not a fan of VBS. It often deteriorates into a watered down approach to salve conscience when the church is not effectively evangelizing the neighborhood

I've been involved in VBS in a LCMS church for the last 5 years and have to agree, at least in our context, that it is a substitute for effective evangelism in our area. Even though our church body is a conservative, confessional congregation our pastor doesn't see fit to evengalize the neighborhood or many obligations as a shepard. Won't go into detail on that yet. We are a small church, with around 100 commuicate members and 20-30 in attendance every Sunday, in a rural area and share our pastor with another chuch body. That's off the point but it reflexs the concern of some of our members on the stagnancy off our growth. I'm not going to debate the Willow Creek or PLI "solution" that LCMS is advocating. Because of pastor's anathema with those groups he says that prayer is the "only" answer to growth. That his been his stanch for many years yet growth is not apparent. Any thoughts on this avenue of approach?

ctay

9th July 2005, 05:36 PM

I go to a small church too. Attendance average is about 65 every Sunday. They need a way to get the word out that they are there. I just transfered my membership there this year and didn't know they were there until this yr and they've been there for 6 yrs. :scratch:

Tetzel

9th July 2005, 08:39 PM

Perhaps Concordia or Augsburg Fortress could publish a VBS curriculum more in keeping with our beliefs

KagomeShuko

9th July 2005, 09:03 PM

Augsburg Fortress has been doing VBS. . .at least this past summer and this summer, they've had Davey and Goliath.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

Perhaps Concordia or Augsburg Fortress could publish a VBS curriculum more in keeping with our beliefs

filosofer

9th July 2005, 09:07 PM

I've been involved in VBS in a LCMS church for the last 5 years and have to agree, at least in our context, that it is a substitute for effective evangelism in our area. Even though our church body is a conservative, confessional congregation our pastor doesn't see fit to evengalize the neighborhood or many obligations as a shepard. Won't go into detail on that yet. We are a small church, with around 100 commuicate members and 20-30 in attendance every Sunday, in a rural area and share our pastor with another chuch body. That's off the point but it reflexs the concern of some of our members on the stagnancy off our growth. I'm not going to debate the Willow Creek or PLI "solution" that LCMS is advocating. Because of pastor's anathema with those groups he says that prayer is the "only" answer to growth. That his been his stanch for many years yet growth is not apparent. Any thoughts on this avenue of approach?

I appreciate the dilemma you face. Sadly, while your pastor has remained faithful in one sense, he has fallen for an alternative that is not Lutheran. The church does not grow by prayer - rather the church grows outward by the proclaimed Word of God, not from the pulpit (yes, it grows internally through the pulpit, but not externally), but from Christians speaking on the "highways and byways", from house to house, etc. Prayer undergirds that outreach, but prayer without each member confessing "Jesus Christ and him crucified" in their daily lives is not an alternative.

Tetzel

9th July 2005, 09:31 PM

Augsburg Fortress has been doing VBS. . .at least this past summer and this summer, they've had Davey and Goliath.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

That sounds ok

KagomeShuko

9th July 2005, 10:20 PM

That sounds ok

Davey and Goliath has been a great VBS curriculum!

Stein Auf!
Bridget

Tetzel

9th July 2005, 11:38 PM

Do you think it would be bad for LCMS VBS programs? Is there any discussion of the issues that tend to cause strife between us Lutherans such as Open Communion, Women's ordination, Abortion or Eccumenism?

ILoveYeshua

18th April 2006, 05:13 AM

vbs seems lame, but i dunno

ctay

18th April 2006, 09:43 AM

LilLamb219

18th April 2006, 05:01 PM

VBS might bring in kids that this is the only way they hear the word of God, their parents may not go to church or not go often but send them to VBS. They could use it also for babysitting but then again, if the kids get something out of it they may end up going to church on their own when they get older.

That's right :) Plant a seed.

We get a lot of Catholic children who come to our VBS. Maybe because they have to PAY to attend their own VBS and ours is free???

SPALATIN

19th April 2006, 11:18 AM

Concordia Publishing House has VBS materials as well.

RedneckAnglican

19th April 2006, 12:56 PM

Concordia Publishing House has VBS materials as well.

to be honest I tend to like the concordia stuff better than the augsburg fortress stuff...but they're both just so pricy...

KagomeShuko

19th April 2006, 03:08 PM

to be honest I tend to like the concordia stuff better than the augsburg fortress stuff...but they're both just so pricy...

I like 'em both. St. Paul rarely buys anything but a starter kit, though. Then we use our own materials based upon what is in the starter kit when we do have VBS.

Sometimes we put our own VBS together.

With the hurricane, I seriously doubt that'll happen this year. Plus, being gone for the gathering for a week. . .

ctay

3rd May 2006, 07:06 PM

We got our stuff through Concordia... Its a treasure hunt theme.

ILoveYeshua

5th May 2006, 08:06 AM

here's an honest question:

how would Lord Jesus run a vacation Bible school?

or if that is too hard, how would the apostle Paul run a vacation Bible school?

Express your answers in 100 words or more if possible.

LilLamb219

5th May 2006, 09:15 AM

how would Lord Jesus run a vacation Bible school?

He would let the little children come to him ;)

LOL Get it?

Ok, ok, really though. He would properly distinguish between Law and Gospel, He would feed the children well (probably fish would be my guess and bread), He would above all things feed them with the good news for faith withouth having them make a choice or a decision or any of those types of things. He would assure them of their salvation through Him :)

C.F.W. Walther

12th June 2006, 10:20 AM

It's that time again:) Who is getting their program from CPH and who is getting it from some other source?

I like Scott's answer last year about he would rather have a full time program all year long than just have one week long program to sooth the conscious. Something about that being the extent of most Lutheran churches outreach programs :)

:scratch:

LilLamb219

12th June 2006, 11:12 AM

It's that time again:) Who is getting their program from CPH and who is getting it from some other source?

Our church is using CPH again for VBS as usual. I'm in the crafts group and this is the first year that we're going to buy the crafts from CPH instead of making up our own to fit in. I'm relieved as I didn't have to go out and buy so much! I still had to buy beads and gems and stuff, but that's no problem.

Our Sunday School is year round :)