Pro-Life Activism

[Monica02]

Baptist's for the most part are very pro-life. Although Catholic teaching is pro-life, my experience has been that alot of Catholics hold heretical views regarding this issue but most Baptists do not. Honestly I do not know any Baptists but this forum has alot of pro-life Baptists so this is where I form most of my general view of Baptists. I am very active in the pro-life movement and spend alot of time holding signs on streets and standing and praying outside of abortion mills.
I very rarely run into a non-Catholic at any of these pro-life events, even though many of them are not strictly Catholic ones. I did participate once in a Presbyterian organized picket where I did meet some non-Catholics, but over half of the participants were Catholic.

My question is why don't I run into more Baptists during my pro-life activities. I do live in an area that is 50% Catholic so I suppose that there are simply not very many Baptists in the area.

[daveleau]

It may be because of your location. I don't know where you live, but that area may not be known for a prominent amount of Baptists. My wife has been very active in similar activities that you have described.

Thank you for the work that you do. :thumbsup:

[ZiSunka]

Baptist's for the most part are very pro-life. Although Catholic teaching is pro-life, my experience has been that alot of Catholics hold heretical views regarding this issue but most Baptists do not. Honestly I do not know any Baptists but this forum has alot of pro-life Baptists so this is where I form most of my general view of Baptists. I am very active in the pro-life movement and spend alot of time holding signs on streets and standing and praying outside of abortion mills.
I very rarely run into a non-Catholic at any of these pro-life events, even though many of them are not strictly Catholic ones. I did participate once in a Presbyterian organized picket where I did meet some non-Catholics, but over half of the participants were Catholic.

My question is why don't I run into more Baptists during my pro-life activities. I do live in an area that is 50% Catholic so I suppose that there are simply not very many Baptists in the area.

Baptists rarely go to protests or demonstrations of any kind. We tend to support pro-life by financially supporting crisis pregnancy centers, getting involved in abstinance education and contacting our elected officials about our pro-life stance.

[TwinCrier]

Many Baptists also practice separation from those who hold differing theological beliefs. To march with Catholics praying the rosery and holding up signs of Mary would not be comfortable. Personally I don't see as much good coming from protests as CPCs.

[MrJim]

Sad reality is that some Baptist dislike Catholics as much as they dislike abortion.

:cry:

[JimfromOhio]

Many anabaptists and I am sure majority of baptists do avoid "confrontations" such as protests or demonstrations of any kind. We want to be zealous for Jesus Christ, but not too being zealous politically. There has to be a balance politically. At my church, we do alot of pro-choice activities within the church, with other churches by supporting organizations that support pro-choice. We even are encouraged to be citizens (voters) by writing to our congress-person or representatives letters of our views. In other words, we protest in a quiet and humble way. I think they have been very effective. Keeps Christianity positive view rather than negative from the media.

[TwinCrier]

Thought this was interesting: It's an interview with a retired abortionists about what kind of picketing was sucessful:Dr. W: Let me ask about picketing out front. Did you have that in front of some of your places? And what influence did that have?



Eric: It depended on what kind of picketing it was. I found that it did nothing but infuriate people and the woman who came in. What worked, and what I hated the most, were the sidewalk counselors who would stand there and give a brochure about the local CPC. Those were the most effective, because that's when the girl would stop to have a conversation.

Dr. W: And some of those women never came in?

Eric: Yes.

Brad: You saw those dollar bills walking away.

Eric: You never minded it when the men were outside picketing, because that was good, especially if they were loud and obnoxious, telling women they were going to go to hell. That was productive because they would come in and say, "Who do they think they are telling me what to do?" Women were much more effective at it than men, definitely. We knew which one was going to be successful. What I found, in my personal experience, is that the women didn't usually respond to younger women because they would typically look at them and say, "You're my age -- what do you know?" But who they did respond to was older women -- middle-aged women and senior citizen women because I think, in their minds, those women had valuable advice.

Dr. W: Did you have escorts to help bring the women in?

Eric: Yes, at times, yes, we did.

Dr. W: And was that effective on your part?

Eric: It was effective when the picketers were rowdy. When the picketers were calm, it backfired on you because it was like you were trying to drag the women in. When the picketers are loud, women are looking for someone to get them into that clinic. So you would always hope, on Saturdays especially (that's the biggest day for picketing), that the picketers would be rowdy and obnoxious.

Dr. W: Is there any particular piece of literature that you recall that you feared the most?

Eric: Yes, one by your group, actually, that I used to hate. It was the one that you did about fetal development.

Dr. W: "Did You Know?" Eric: Yes, that was the one we hated the most. That really used to tick us off. And actually what we would do is (I shouldn't tell you this, but), the right-to-lifers would get tired and they would put their stuff down on the sidewalk, and they're talking and we'd go over and take all their literature and just run with it.

[daveleau]

Wow. Outstanding post, TwinCrier!

*You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TwinCrier again.

[MrJim]

Thought this was interesting: It's an interview with a retired abortionists about what kind of picketing was sucessful:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[RED that's ME]

My family does support a local Christian Pregnancy Crisis center financially. My mom has volunteered there helping out also. :angel:

[arunma]

Many Baptists also practice separation from those who hold differing theological beliefs. To march with Catholics praying the rosery and holding up signs of Mary would not be comfortable. Personally I don't see as much good coming from protests as CPCs.

This is true of some people, but not of others. People from my church (including the pastor) attend pro-life demonstrations alongside Catholics. I would certain attend a pro-life demonstration with a Catholic. I wouldn't even mind praying with one. Personally, I think the pro-life cause is too important to be stopped by theological disagreements.

I do agree with Lambslove, however, that supporting crisis pregnancy centers and absinence education is more important than protests and other political agendas (if you notice, I don't even vote for the supposedly pro-life political party).

[arunma]

Many Baptists also practice separation from those who hold differing theological beliefs. To march with Catholics praying the rosery and holding up signs of Mary would not be comfortable. Personally I don't see as much good coming from protests as CPCs.

This is true of some people, but not of others. People from my church (including the pastor) attend pro-life demonstrations alongside Catholics. I would certain attend a pro-life demonstration with a Catholic. I wouldn't even mind praying with one. Personally, I think the pro-life cause is too important to be stopped by theological disagreements.

I do agree with Lambslove, however, that supporting crisis pregnancy centers and absinence education is more important than protests and other political agendas (if you notice, I don't even vote for the supposedly pro-life political party).

[Flynmonkie]

I would much rather see the money spent on all the publicity that goes into the "act" of picketing or grouping around these places...into REAL help for these women.

Real Help such as employment training, housing, infant supplies, insurance (health screenings) counseling...etc...at the very least it should start in our churches. Reaching out to those women whom feel they are not worthy. How about petitioning the diaper companies, and baby suppliers to donate towards a project for this? I hear people spending hundreds of dollars on plane tickets to travel around to these clinics when that money could pay rent, utilities etc. Or how about in the churches? Having the congregation offer (voluntary) basic computer courses for those whom need the training for employment? Or even basic life skills? Cooking, proper spending for households, learning to save? Or how about simply inexpensive childcare for those attending school? How about making it a co-op situation at times? There are tons of things that could be done that are just not happening. It seems to me that Christians have become lazy in this arena, resting in the fact the government “has programs”. And those programs are a joke! In missouri a family of 5 needs to make less than $388 to have health insurance including well baby checkups....that is just for starters. Well when we leave it in the governments hands, what do you expect?

99% of these women are SCARED out of their mind. By all the worldly thoughts and ideas that they have had plugged into their minds for years. If they are taught by example why there is nothing to be scared of - They are just as bad as everyone else…. all of us.....they might have a chance.

But instead, they turn to churches that shun them for their "sin". They are facing a potential life of single parenthood, and they can barley survive for themselves. Or already have children and know the hardship it seems to be. Some have no idea what true love, agape love even means, coming from broken homes themselves. They have low self-esteem, and no concept of their future. It is an easy fix. Selfish choice, absolutely. But isn't it sort of hypocritical that we say they are selfish, yet have we all really done enough? (not directed to those whom are out there trying, or even those whom have not for whatever reason, just something to think about)They simply do not know that we need not worry about these things. Or they truly believe ……..God had just forgotten about them…..and they had to make their own way.

Ok hopping of my soapbox now..... :sorry:

[JimfromOhio]

I would much rather see the money spent on all the publicity that goes into the "act" of picketing or grouping around these places...into REAL help for these women.

Real Help such as employment training, housing, infant supplies, insurance (health screenings) counseling...etc...at the very least it should start in our churches. Reaching out to those women whom feel they are not worthy. How about petitioning the diaper companies, and baby suppliers to donate towards a project for this? I hear people spending hundreds of dollars on plane tickets to travel around to these clinics when that money could pay rent, utilities etc. Or how about in the churches? Having the congregation offer (voluntary) basic computer courses for those whom need the training for employment? Or even basic life skills? Cooking, proper spending for households, learning to save? Or how about simply inexpensive childcare for those attending school? How about making it a co-op situation at times? There are tons of things that could be done that are just not happening. It seems to me that Christians have become lazy in this arena, resting in the fact the government “has programs”. And those programs are a joke! In missouri a family of 5 needs to make less than $388 to have health insurance including well baby checkups....that is just for starters. Well when we leave it in the governments hands, what do you expect?

99% of these women are SCARED out of their mind. By all the worldly thoughts and ideas that they have had plugged into their minds for years. If they are taught by example why there is nothing to be scared of - They are just as bad as everyone else…. all of us.....they might have a chance.

But instead, they turn to churches that shun them for their "sin". They are facing a potential life of single parenthood, and they can barley survive for themselves. Or already have children and know the hardship it seems to be. Some have no idea what true love, agape love even means, coming from broken homes themselves. They have low self-esteem, and no concept of their future. It is an easy fix. Selfish choice, absolutely. But isn't it sort of hypocritical that we say they are selfish, yet have we all really done enough? (not directed to those whom are out there trying, or even those whom have not for whatever reason, just something to think about)They simply do not know that we need not worry about these things. Or they truly believe ……..God had just forgotten about them…..and they had to make their own way.

Ok hopping of my soapbox now..... :sorry:

I agree, Great post ! :thumbsup:

[Athanasian Creed]

Sad reality is that some Baptist dislike Catholics as much as they dislike abortion.

:cry:

Could you expound on your statement please ??:scratch:

I hope you are not equating disagreeing with Catholicism with disliking Catholics. I disagree with Catholicism but i DON'T in any way, shape or form dislike Catholics. I love them and pray for them.;)


Ray :wave:

[arunma]

I disagree with Catholicism but i DON'T in any way, shape or form dislike Catholics. I love them and pray for them.;)

Same here!

[Monica02]

Thank you all for your replies. I was thrilled to read that sidewalk counseling is so effective. We personally have had four "saves" outside of the abortion mill in the past two weeks. The abortionists has called the police, the building owner and even a big burly bouncer in an effort to get rid of us. The police are always sooooo nice - they just smile, wave and remind us to stay on the public property.


Just to clarify me original statement. I do not yell, scream and condemn people to Hell outside of clinics. We pray, hold a poster of a beatiful eight week old fetus with a sign offering help, hand out literature and baby gifts and take women to the CPC's.
I have never seen anyone, except on pro-abortion television news shows, yell and condemn women to Hell at an abortion clinic.

I do participate in Truth Tours, but these are not aimed at women entering the clinics. They are normally at very busy intersections for the general public to see what an abortion really looks like.

I also work at a pro-life booth at the county fair and attend pro-life conventions. One large annual convention is normally about 90% Catholic and 10% (most of them Orthodox) other Christian faiths. This convention always has a very diverse array of speakers but yet seems to attract mostly Catholic attendees. It is even highly advertised on the protestant/evangelical radio station.

Alot of the replies mentioned that Baptists prefer to support CPC's, but if you do not stand outside of the clinics, how do you get the abortion bound woman to the CPC?
Of course, many women will hear about the CPC's before they pull into the clinic parking lot, but why would some Baptists not want to try to stop them at the abortion clinic?

Would more Baptists be willing to pray outside of clincs if the prayers were not Catholic ones?

[Monica02]

I would much rather see the money spent on all the publicity that goes into the "act" of picketing or grouping around these places...into REAL help for these women.

Real Help such as employment training, housing, infant supplies, insurance (health screenings) counseling...etc...at the very least it should start in our churches. Reaching out to those women whom feel they are not worthy. How about petitioning the diaper companies, and baby suppliers to donate towards a project for this? I hear people spending hundreds of dollars on plane tickets to travel around to these clinics when that money could pay rent, utilities etc. Or how about in the churches? Having the congregation offer (voluntary) basic computer courses for those whom need the training for employment? Or even basic life skills? Cooking, proper spending for households, learning to save? Or how about simply inexpensive childcare for those attending school? How about making it a co-op situation at times? There are tons of things that could be done that are just not happening. It seems to me that Christians have become lazy in this arena, resting in the fact the government “has programs”. And those programs are a joke! In missouri a family of 5 needs to make less than $388 to have health insurance including well baby checkups....that is just for starters. Well when we leave it in the governments hands, what do you expect?

99% of these women are SCARED out of their mind. By all the worldly thoughts and ideas that they have had plugged into their minds for years. If they are taught by example why there is nothing to be scared of - They are just as bad as everyone else…. all of us.....they might have a chance.

But instead, they turn to churches that shun them for their "sin". They are facing a potential life of single parenthood, and they can barley survive for themselves. Or already have children and know the hardship it seems to be. Some have no idea what true love, agape love even means, coming from broken homes themselves. They have low self-esteem, and no concept of their future. It is an easy fix. Selfish choice, absolutely. But isn't it sort of hypocritical that we say they are selfish, yet have we all really done enough? (not directed to those whom are out there trying, or even those whom have not for whatever reason, just something to think about)They simply do not know that we need not worry about these things. Or they truly believe ……..God had just forgotten about them…..and they had to make their own way.

Ok hopping of my soapbox now..... :sorry:


The amount of money spent on keeping the abortion issue on the minds of the general public is worth every cent. People need continually educated on the issue, or else it would dissappear into oblivion, with nobody keeping check on the industry. I have encountered countless people who thought that abortion is only legal in the first trimester or thought that the fetus was a blood clot or the egg a woman expels every month. I have encountered people who thought that Barack Obama was pro-life (no kidding). I do not have time to mention the numerous misconceptions out there about embryonic stem cell research.

Aid for the women is of course a necessary part of the pro-life movement, but the education of the general public is also very important. The work I do usually only costs (gasoline, tolls, literature, baby gifts) about $20/ week. The sign was about $60. Not alot of money to save a life and prevent a woman from a life of heartache. Our church does support the CPC's, which offer a wide range of services.

[Flynmonkie]

The amount of money spent on keeping the abortion issue on the minds of the general public is worth every cent. People need continually educated on the issue, or else it would dissappear into oblivion, with nobody keeping check on the industry. I have encountered countless people who thought that abortion is only legal in the first trimester or thought that the fetus was a blood clot or the egg a woman expels every month. .

By no means am I discounting the need for this. I too was one of those people that had no idea until last year "late term" abortions were legal. But I did not hear of it in a pamphlet, I heard about it on a site such as this.

Catholics obviously have done much with the sisters of the poor, the Catholic Charities etc. This is not what I am speaking about. In fact I had just stopped in to OBOB in a thread regarding Planned Parenthood. Most do not realize how sinister the organization truly is. Most should read about Margaret Sanger’s neo-nazi history before and reasoning behind starting this organization. It is truly frightening.


Margaret Sanger - Founder of Planned Parenthood ". . .we prefer the policy of immediate sterilizarion, of making sure that parenthood is ' absolutely prohibed ' to the feeble-minded." The Pivot of Civilization, p102
Chapter 5 of Sanger's book is titled "The Cruelty of Charity."

In it she wrote:


"Organized charity itself is. . . the surest sign that our civilization has bred, is breeding and is perpetuating constantly increasing numbers of defectives, delinquents and dependents"

Margaret Sanger. - The Pivot of Civilization. Brentano's Press, NY, 1922. p. 108
Sanger's words are almost identical to Hitler's:


"This is in keeping with the humanitarianism which, to avoid hurting one individual, lets a hundred others perish. The demand that defective people be prevented from propagating equally defective offspring is a demand of the clearest reason and if systematically executed represents the most humane act of mankind."

Adolf Hitler. - Mein Kampf vol. 1, ch. 10 1925
http://www.lancasterlife.com/nazism_planned_parenthood.html


It is those extremists out there passing out pamphlets of dead fetus, or screaming murder, or God hates murderers, or you’re headed to hell.

We are all worthless without God. All sins are equally horrid before our Father. My act of selfishness is no different than a woman’s poor or usually uneducated choice. Where is the love in this tactic? God did not scare us into fear of him. On the contrary, he shows his love "The greatest is love". SImply put "Mercy". A true understanding of the biblical term of Godly fear is “revere, reverence”. Not terror --- Love is not condemnation.

It does nothing for those walking into those clinics but reinforce the idea that God has forgotten about them or it is a sick joke. How does one effectively share the gospel when we are condemning (shunning) them for sinning? Or worse yet, painting a picture of fear.......

[MrJim]

Could you expound on your statement please ??:scratch:

I hope you are not equating disagreeing with Catholicism with disliking Catholics. I disagree with Catholicism but i DON'T in any way, shape or form dislike Catholics. I love them and pray for them.;)


Ray :wave:

Look for that word "some" in my statement. 'Nuff said.

[Monica02]

It is those extremists out there passing out pamphlets of dead fetus, or screaming murder, or God hates murderers, or you’re headed to hell.

We are all worthless without God. All sins are equally horrid before our Father. My act of selfishness is no different than a woman’s poor or usually uneducated choice. Where is the love in this tactic? God did not scare us into fear of him. On the contrary, he shows his love "The greatest is love". SImply put "Mercy". A true understanding of the biblical term of Godly fear is “revere, reverence”. Not terror --- Love is not condemnation.

It does nothing for those walking into those clinics but reinforce the idea that God has forgotten about them or it is a sick joke. How does one effectively share the gospel when we are condemning (shunning) them for sinning? Or worse yet, painting a picture of fear.......


I have seen, as I mentioned in my earlier post, these screaming ,condemning to Hell activists only on TV. I have never actually met anyone doing this at a clinic. I do hand out literature with abortion photos, but the screaming "murderer" stuff - who does this? If I speak to someone leaving the clinic after an abortion, I invite them to go to church, hand them a brochure for post-abortion counseling, hand them a rosary and offer to pray for them. I understand that you are not accusing ME of being a "murderer" screamer, but who does do this? Sometimes I think the pro-abortion forces stage people to paint pro-lifers in a bad light.

[ZiSunka]

I have seen, as I mentioned in my earlier post, these screaming ,condemning to Hell activists only on TV. I have never actually met anyone doing this at a clinic. I do hand out literature with abortion photos, but the screaming "murderer" stuff - who does this? If I speak to someone leaving the clinic after an abortion, I invite them to go to church, hand them a brochure for post-abortion counseling, hand them a rosary and offer to pray for them. I understand that you are not accusing ME of being a "murderer" screamer, but who does do this? Sometimes I think the pro-abortion forces stage people to paint pro-lifers in a bad light.

I do know someone who has done this. During the 1990's this person travelled from city to city, from clinic to clinic, holding up graphic signs with photos of aborted babies, yelling at the people going in that they were murderers. Thank God those days seem to be over and most people in front of clinics these days are respectfully praying and offering CPC and prayer to the women going in.

I used to go to a certain doctor in Kettering, Ohio, home of Martin Haskell's abortion clinic where he does the partial birth abortions, and I would often see people standing silently on the corner (Haskell had a restraining order that prevented them from coming within 100 feet of the building), not holding up signs or anything, just silently standing and praying. I respected and admired these people. The doctor I went to had his office next door to the clinic, and one day while the doctor was with me, his nurse came in and said, "Doctor, they are waiting for you next door." He got a startled look on his face, looked at me, then looked away, ashamed because he knew I am a Christian and that he was going next door to violate the sanctity of life by performing an abortion. I could never go to him as a patient again, but I still pray for him. I hope one day he will understand the depth of what he has done, but more importantly, I hope he will understand the depth of God's redemptive grace that can forgive even his most henious acts.:prayer:

[Monica02]

I do know someone who has done this. During the 1990's this person travelled from city to city, from clinic to clinic, holding up graphic signs with photos of aborted babies, yelling at the people going in that they were murderers. Thank God those days seem to be over and most people in front of clinics these days are respectfully praying and offering CPC and prayer to the women going in.

.:prayer:

Maybe this was the guy I see on TV - they might be showing the footage over and over. :thumbsup:

[MrJim]

Let me say from the outset that I am somewhat neutral on the display of the graphic pictures of abortions. Done quietly it can have positive effect.

When I was in the Marine Corps in early 80's I remember going into Jacksonville NC (Camp LeJeune) one day and seeing this billboard with an aborted baby on it. Now I must have led a sheltered life because I was never exposed to this before. I had heard the term abortion I'm sure but was never really "confronted" with it. Even though I was not a Christian and just your typical jarhead I knew when I saw that picture that abortion had to be wrong. Now had there been someone there screaming at me I probably would not have pondered on the site and would have been focused on the freakshow. But the picture spoke to me and seared a spot into my memory that I have not forgotten. When I met Christ and was saved I became more exposed to the whole abortion thing on a bigger scale and still remembered that billboard in Jacksonville.

Funny how God can can use stuff...

[arunma]

Yes, I agree Menno. Christians shouldn't make delibreate attempts to offend people. The pure, unadulterated Gospel is offensive enough, after all.

[Flynmonkie]

I have seen, as I mentioned in my earlier post, these screaming ,condemning to Hell activists only on TV. I have never actually met anyone doing this at a clinic. I do hand out literature with abortion photos, but the screaming "murderer" stuff - who does this? If I speak to someone leaving the clinic after an abortion, I invite them to go to church, hand them a brochure for post-abortion counseling, hand them a rosary and offer to pray for them. I understand that you are not accusing ME of being a "murderer" screamer, but who does do this? Sometimes I think the pro-abortion forces stage people to paint pro-lifers in a bad light.

The KJO Church goers just down the street that *Praise God* the church was finally shut down. In addition, told homosexuals God Hates them, and God said we should kill all the Muslims. Yes people they are out there. I thought it was quaint that when I finally had enough of trying to be "nice" and point out scripture that this is not how God intends us to spread the gospel, I was firmly told that I would be a nice person even if I didn't think I was a Christian. Some peoples kids. :sigh:

Yes, I do believe after so many horrible murders/bombings at one time these people have crawled back under the rock they came out of. So no, we don't see them often......but the only thing you have to do is check some of the threads around this board and it will be quite clear the condemnation to those whom have no idea of Christianity....."Mortal Sin, if you willfully or intentionally? Your in BIG TROUBLE with God! It still totally befuddles me how people can say that because someone had sex intentionally, and they are blessed with a child---May Be God will forgive you, but you can never be sure....... :scratch: Murder, selfishness”, blah blah blah.......What’s the difference? (Not just directed at one denomination, obviously Baptists don't classify sins - they are all one just as bad as the other.) But I have seen just as many protestants with a holier than thou attitude when it comes to this stuff. I can only imagine what a scared girl seeking answers might go away with.

And I for one do not like the idea of people even standing outside of a “clinic” with any signs, drawing attention to any of these people. How would you feel if I held a sign in front of your doctor’s office saying the office is known for STD specialty? Or this Doctor specializes in people whom have been adulterers? Some people actually do go to these places for things other than abortion. Namely because it is free or based on income. (not that I like it) Why don’t you bring doctors on the team and have them give this information as part of a new pregnancy packet for those just tested? Or last I heard these abortion clinics had to put information “right to life” in their information packet. Why would this not be enough? Do you think God will hear you any clearer if you were at home instead of standing there? You will not find me at one of these places. We are supposed to be setting an example by our LIFE style. Harassment is clearly not a part of this. Leaving the potential for a misunderstanding about Gods love is just not an option for me. IMVHO

Regarding the dead baby billboard and other nonsense publicly displayed.........this is coming from a mother that has lost two children (one, and a twin). That is an image I could do without seeing slapped on billboards around town. “Baby in a Basket”. Oh yeah, that truly reminds me of Gods love and Mercy… :doh:

Menno yes I completely agree, God works with everything. Sometimes it is just a shame people think that He has to work with something like that.

[GreenEyedLady]

That was awesome Twin.
Can you post up a link?
Our church also does alot of pro life active stuff. We have an evangilist who goes "under cover" to all the high schools in the area and teaches (preaches) to the students about the effects of abortion, drugs, alchol, and witchcraft. It has become so sucessful that the man is booked all over the city. After the meetings in the school he invites students to and off campus meeting where the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is then preached.
GEL

[Andyman_1970]

I would much rather see the money spent on all the publicity that goes into the "act" of picketing or grouping around these places...into REAL help for these women.

Real Help such as employment training, housing, infant supplies, insurance (health screenings) counseling...etc...at the very least it should start in our churches. Reaching out to those women whom feel they are not worthy. How about petitioning the diaper companies, and baby suppliers to donate towards a project for this? I hear people spending hundreds of dollars on plane tickets to travel around to these clinics when that money could pay rent, utilities etc. Or how about in the churches? Having the congregation offer (voluntary) basic computer courses for those whom need the training for employment? Or even basic life skills? Cooking, proper spending for households, learning to save? Or how about simply inexpensive childcare for those attending school? How about making it a co-op situation at times? There are tons of things that could be done that are just not happening. It seems to me that Christians have become lazy in this arena, resting in the fact the government “has programs”. And those programs are a joke! In missouri a family of 5 needs to make less than $388 to have health insurance including well baby checkups....that is just for starters. Well when we leave it in the governments hands, what do you expect?

99% of these women are SCARED out of their mind. By all the worldly thoughts and ideas that they have had plugged into their minds for years. If they are taught by example why there is nothing to be scared of - They are just as bad as everyone else…. all of us.....they might have a chance.

But instead, they turn to churches that shun them for their "sin". They are facing a potential life of single parenthood, and they can barley survive for themselves. Or already have children and know the hardship it seems to be. Some have no idea what true love, agape love even means, coming from broken homes themselves. They have low self-esteem, and no concept of their future. It is an easy fix. Selfish choice, absolutely. But isn't it sort of hypocritical that we say they are selfish, yet have we all really done enough? (not directed to those whom are out there trying, or even those whom have not for whatever reason, just something to think about)They simply do not know that we need not worry about these things. Or they truly believe ……..God had just forgotten about them…..and they had to make their own way.

Ok hopping of my soapbox now..... :sorry:

Amen sista............... :amen: :thumbsup:

[TwinCrier]

That was awesome Twin.
Can you post up a link?
Our church also does alot of pro life active stuff. We have an evangilist who goes "under cover" to all the high schools in the area and teaches (preaches) to the students about the effects of abortion, drugs, alchol, and witchcraft. It has become so sucessful that the man is booked all over the city. After the meetings in the school he invites students to and off campus meeting where the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is then preached.
GELIt's a shame we have to be covert in witnessing nowadays (thanks for nothing ACLU) but that is just a mild for of persecution we must face today.
BTW, the entire rather lengthy article is here: http://www.pregnantpause.org/abort/harrah.htm

[novcncy]

Baptist's for the most part are very pro-life. Although Catholic teaching is pro-life, my experience has been that alot of Catholics hold heretical views regarding this issue but most Baptists do not. Honestly I do not know any Baptists but this forum has alot of pro-life Baptists so this is where I form most of my general view of Baptists. I am very active in the pro-life movement and spend alot of time holding signs on streets and standing and praying outside of abortion mills.
I very rarely run into a non-Catholic at any of these pro-life events, even though many of them are not strictly Catholic ones. I did participate once in a Presbyterian organized picket where I did meet some non-Catholics, but over half of the participants were Catholic.

My question is why don't I run into more Baptists during my pro-life activities. I do live in an area that is 50% Catholic so I suppose that there are simply not very many Baptists in the area.

Abortion is a symptom. The real problem with our society is sin, and the cure is the gospel. If all the effort and money that goes into fighting the abortion war, was instead spent to give people the good news of Jesus Christ, I wonder how that would affect abortion rates in the US?

I surely hope that this doesn't come across as an attempt to minimalize or trivialize abortion, because it is truly a horrible and wicked thing. My point is that when our society even allows consideration of something like abortion, it is indicative of a much larger problem. What has happened that we can tolerate something like abortion?

So to partly answer your question, many of the Baptists I know focus their efforts on giving people the message of Christ. They don't exclude women who are considering abortions, but they don't look for them exclusively either. I suppose you can't fight every battle, and it seems to me that reaching out to these hurting hearts by helping them in their time of need is just as much a valid approach to soulwinning as anything else. My concern is that many times people lose perspective of the mother's soul, because they're too focused on the baby and the abortion issue.

[Flynmonkie]

novcncy :amen: In my eyes there is a reason they are not flocking to the church instead of these clinics...you are absolutely right, this is the problem that should be focused on. Not a ritual of prayer vigils that essentially are to shame individuals out of the act- where are we told to shame, as opposed to uplift? No matter your heart intent, this is essentially what is going on. My question is why does it get to the point these women are heading into these clinics? That is where you will find your solution, and that is where you should start--at "home". IMVHO

[novcncy]

novcncy :amen: In my eyes there is a reason they are not flocking to the church instead of these clinics...you are absolutely right, this is the problem that should be focused on. Not a ritual of prayer vigils that essentially are to shame individuals out of the act- where are we told to shame, as opposed to uplift? No matter your heart intent, this is essentially what is going on. My question is why does it get to the point these women are heading into these clinics? That is where you will find your solution, and that is where you should start--at "home". IMVHO

Yes, I agree that we need more mercy, and we need to love them BEFORE they're walking into a clinic. But that said, who are we to judge them? We're sinners too, and the thing we forget is that our sin is just as bad as their sin. Any sin is enough to alienate one from God. We like to categorize them into bad sins, and not so bad sins, and although the differ in terms of consequences on the earth, they all have the same eternal consequence. Maybe our sins are even worse, since we have already realized the suffering that Jesus went through to pay for our sin. They don't know any better, how can we expect them not to sin? We do know better, and we still can't keep from sinning.

This whole thing reminds me of the woman caught in adultery that was brought to Jesus, or even the woman at the well. If the Almighty Creator could hold off on judging these women, and love them where they were at, then who are we to inist on hurrying up the process?

That's not a very lucid post, but I hope you can get the drift of what I'm trying to say.

[Flynmonkie]

You’re preachin' to the choir here my brother! :thumbsup:

[novcncy]

You’re preachin' to the choir here my brother! :thumbsup:

It's SOOOOO much easier that way. ;) But all jesting aside, it's truly in my heart, too. Make no mistake about that. I honestly wish that people (myself included) had as much passion for Christ as we do for politics, or soccer, or computers, or whatever else occupies their focus.

I've been thinking about this for a while....you know how throughout Israel's history, they would fall away from God, and then come back, and then fall away, and then come back, and seem to repeat the cycle ad naseum? Well, it seems to me that many Christians are fatalistic, and are in neutral mode, hoping for Christ's return. While it does seem imminent, it seemed imminent to the Apostles too, so my question is what happens if He doesn't come back for another four thousand years? What will happen to the church if it stays neutral for four thousand years? It's a rhetorical question, because if He tarries that long, He will also perserve His church, but I'm simply using it to illustrate the flaw with the neutrality position. We need to realize that we are involved, like it or not, in daily spiritual warfare. We need to get on the offensive (translate: get on our knees), lose the "giving up" mentality, and pray that God will revive our country. We need to actually obey the great commission and tell people the good news of Jesus Christ. He can do revive America, and sometimes I think the only thing preventing that is our lack of faith, or as Elijah put it (paraphrasing here), our "I'm the only one left who worships you!!!" attitude.

Okay, stepping down. But think about it. Maybe we can start a new thread on it.

[Monica02]

Abortion is a symptom. The real problem with our society is sin, and the cure is the gospel. If all the effort and money that goes into fighting the abortion war, was instead spent to give people the good news of Jesus Christ, I wonder how that would affect abortion rates in the US?

I surely hope that this doesn't come across as an attempt to minimalize or trivialize abortion, because it is truly a horrible and wicked thing. My point is that when our society even allows consideration of something like abortion, it is indicative of a much larger problem. What has happened that we can tolerate something like abortion?

So to partly answer your question, many of the Baptists I know focus their efforts on giving people the message of Christ. They don't exclude women who are considering abortions, but they don't look for them exclusively either. I suppose you can't fight every battle, and it seems to me that reaching out to these hurting hearts by helping them in their time of need is just as much a valid approach to soulwinning as anything else. My concern is that many times people lose perspective of the mother's soul, because they're too focused on the baby and the abortion issue.

I do not disagree with anything you have written.

I consider working for an end to abortion to be a way of spreading the Good News. Perhaps someone will return to church or become closer to God if they change their mind. Abortion is sin and all sin seperates us from God - so helping people to avoid sin or to ask for God's forgiveness can be one way of spreading this Truth. Of course sin is the root of abortion - it comes from the pit of hell. Yes - abortion is indicative of a larger problem and of course these problems need to be dealt with as well. I see no problem with individual people focusing on one issue, as long as the Church as a whole deals with all issues. There are many aspects of the pro-life movement, and people with other talents can fill other shoes.

[Monica02]

Yes, I agree that we need more mercy, and we need to love them BEFORE they're walking into a clinic. But that said, who are we to judge them? We're sinners too, and the thing we forget is that our sin is just as bad as their sin. Any sin is enough to alienate one from God. We like to categorize them into bad sins, and not so bad sins, and although the differ in terms of consequences on the earth, they all have the same eternal consequence. Maybe our sins are even worse, since we have already realized the suffering that Jesus went through to pay for our sin. They don't know any better, how can we expect them not to sin? We do know better, and we still can't keep from sinning.

This whole thing reminds me of the woman caught in adultery that was brought to Jesus, or even the woman at the well. If the Almighty Creator could hold off on judging these women, and love them where they were at, then who are we to inist on hurrying up the process?

That's not a very lucid post, but I hope you can get the drift of what I'm trying to say.

I would not call praying and sidewalk counseling judging. The prayers are for the poor little aborted babies, clinic employees and boyfriends, husbands, mothers ect... We do ask our prayer warriers to pray along with us at home if they cannot make it to the clinic. I would really like to help these women before thay enter the clinic ( and I am sure many women are helped and chose to not go ) but the simple fact is that I have never seen any of these people before in my life and probably would never have met them. People come from all over the Chicago area - six million people. I agree that society and the Church has failed these women - but the clinic entrance is the last effort to reach them before they do something awful.

[Flynmonkie]

Monica, with all due respect :hug: .....I will let this verse speak for itself.....

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. —Matthew 6:5 KJV

Now, most would not view this verse in the context that we are speaking but I however do. Think of it this way, and please forgive me for using such a lame analogy but I believe you will get what I am saying. If you walk into a coffee or chocolate factory. You feel there is nothing wrong with eating chocolate or drinking coffee.....yet others feel it is damaging to your body by the ingredients of caffeine (which is true to a degree but I would be walking in there with ya!) so they stand there praying that you would turn from your sin and God will save you. When we have no idea why these people are freaking out!! We have the right to eat and drink whatever we want to…! That is the context they are viewing you in. What do you honestly think of these people and their idea of God when they see you praying on a corner?

You have to put yourselves in another’s shoes. No doubt in my mind you have the best of intentions. However these women are not going to be convinced by seeing you stand there and pray. I am sure there are some whom might have a last minute change of heart due to a guilty feeling, but this does not always mean that gives them a good understanding of God. Just that you’re guilty for everything. Now we know this is not how God works. And we all know people do “good” things even if they are not saved.

I recently read something from Charles Stanley on how we view God.....Think about these questions in your mind and in your heart.
How do you view God?
Do you view him as a Loving or a Demanding Father? He is a Loving Father.
An intimate or Distant Friend? A intimate Friend
Patient or intolerant teacher? Extremely patient teacher
Gentle or Angry Guide? Gentle Guide
Understanding or insensitive Counselor? Very Understanding
Generous or reluctant provider? Generous Provider
Faithful or inconsistent sustainer? And oh boy is He ever faithful.


How to listen to God – Charles Stanley (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0840790414/ref=pd_sxp_f/102-1239913-9622544?v=glance&s=books)

It is imperative that we are consistent in showing these truths about God.

Standing on the corner, with all the prior (and ongoing) hoopla about Christianity and Abortion and Human Rights issues......is not effectively sharing Gospel, it is making a political statement. IMVHO

Please do not think this is a Catholic only comment. It is directed to all. I have NO issues with fellowshipping with Catholics. I do not agree with all of the RC teachings - But I have not met a denomination that is perfect. And I have met wonderful Catholic Christians. So I am not debating with you, just discussing for fellowship :hug:

Hope this clears things up.....

[arunma]

Standing on the corner, with all the prior (and ongoing) hoopla about Christianity and Abortion and Human Rights issues......is not effectively sharing Gospel, it is making a political statement. IMVHO

I agree completely. Not only does this act violate St. Matthew 6:5, but such a worthless thing as politics has no place in the church. I care about a person's spiritual condition much more than I do about whether he voted for Bush or Kerry last November (in fact, I don't care about the latter at all, at least not from a religious standpoint).

[eldermike]

I don't see pro-life/pro-choice as a political issue at all. It's a moral issue. Should the church speak out on moral issues within the community? Yes they should. We are called peculiar people, taken out of the world but still in it. We stand to bring the world into the church if we are not outspoken on moral issues.How else will they know us if we simply vote in secret? God calls to Him who He chooses, how can I lose my witness by taking a stand for life?. I don't think it's correct at all to think that we can hide our high moral basis for the Christian life. Give me a sign!

[Flynmonkie]

So you feel Christ would stand at the front of a clinic praying as a indication of what the Church represents on moral issues? This I simply do not agree with. :wave:
I truly feel there are other more christ like ways of sharing this with others. Many I have mentioned earlier. :prayer:

[JimfromOhio]

Whether pro-life activism or any other form activism, in American it is easy to submit authority because we agree with what the government is doing. The test for christians submitting is not when we are happy with government but when we disagree.

How will we respond to authority when we think it is ungodly, unfair, and unjust?

I have seen Christians be very supportive of elected leaders who were sympathetic to their views. Yet when a leader is elected who does not share their views, many become critical and grumble against them. As Christians, we must be careful to remain submissive even with the leaders with whom we disagree. We are not to be submissive to the governments we like and not submissive to the ones we dislike. The command to "submit yourselves . . . to every human institution" (1 Peter 2:13) is purposely broad. It includes all forms of government whether good or bad. Even unbelievers find it easy to be in subjection to authority they like. But the Christian who submits to unjust authority can manifest his godly character and God’s work in his life. "Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may on account of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation" (1 Peter 2:12).

So... as Christians, we should live like other citizens and vote. Or, at least get involved in politics or Law (to become Supreme Judge). We are to go "with the flow" within our government system. I personally do NOT believe in protesting in public however I do believe in voicing my opinion as a citizen. It is my personal bibical belief that Christians are to be ZEALOUS for God and BEHAVE like-Christ at the same time.

[arunma]

So you feel Christ would stand at the front of a clinic praying as a indication of what the Church represents on moral issues? This I simply do not agree with. :wave:
I truly feel there are other more christ like ways of sharing this with others. Many I have mentioned earlier. :prayer:

I don't think Mike was saying that it is Christ-like to judge those who practice abortion. As he said, it isn't a political issue.

[Flynmonkie]

I don't think it's correct at all to think that we can hide our high moral basis for the Christian life. Give me a sign!
Oh. :scratch: I guess I did not see it this way...based on this last comment. I took this as that he would like to hold a sign too..... :D

[eldermike]

So you feel Christ would stand at the front of a clinic praying as a indication of what the Church represents on moral issues? This I simply do not agree with. :wave:
I truly feel there are other more christ like ways of sharing this with others. Many I have mentioned earlier. :prayer:
No that's not what I am saying, I am not advocating making this world my home or subverting my government. We are not subverting our government by protesting it, it's actually how we got here to this point. It's part of good citizenship. Was God involved in women obtaining the right to vote? Black people moving from the back of the bus?

I don't think comparing what Christ did 2000 years ago under Roman rule to what we can do today with the right to assemble and freedom of speech is an accurate comparison. It also doesn't replace our responsibility to be where God is working. But speaking out on moral issues is good citizenship and I don't think Jesus would oppose that.

There will come a time when speaking out in the Name of Jesus will result in a high price. Jesus said we would be dragged in front of rulers and even killed in His Name.

[Flynmonkie]

No that's not what I am saying, I am not advocating making this world my home or subverting my government.But speaking out on moral issues is good citizenship and I don't think Jesus would oppose that.

There will come a time when speaking out in the Name of Jesus will result in a high price. Jesus said we would be dragged in front of rulers and even killed in His Name.

Amen.
Thanks apologies for my misunderstanding! :sorry: I agree, we should voice our opinion. :) Thanks!

[novcncy]

Whether pro-life activism or any other form activism, in American it is easy to submit authority because we agree with what the government is doing. The test for christians submitting is not when we are happy with government but when we disagree.

How will we respond to authority when we think it is ungodly, unfair, and unjust?

I have seen Christians be very supportive of elected leaders who were sympathetic to their views. Yet when a leader is elected who does not share their views, many become critical and grumble against them. As Christians, we must be careful to remain submissive even with the leaders with whom we disagree. We are not to be submissive to the governments we like and not submissive to the ones we dislike. The command to "submit yourselves . . . to every human institution" (1 Peter 2:13) is purposely broad. It includes all forms of government whether good or bad. Even unbelievers find it easy to be in subjection to authority they like. But the Christian who submits to unjust authority can manifest his godly character and God’s work in his life. "Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may on account of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation" (1 Peter 2:12).

So... as Christians, we should live like other citizens and vote. Or, at least get involved in politics or Law (to become Supreme Judge). We are to go "with the flow" within our government system. I personally do NOT believe in protesting in public however I do believe in voicing my opinion as a citizen. It is my personal bibical belief that Christians are to be ZEALOUS for God and BEHAVE like-Christ at the same time.

YEAH JIM!!!!!!! :amen: I cannot recall ever hearing prayer for President Clinton from the pulpit. Usually, the prayers are from the standpoint of "Help us to survive through this, as it's obviously against your will." As if that's possible!! Do these people realize that God referred to Nebuchadnezzar as "My servant"?

[Monica02]

Monica, with all due respect :hug: .....I will let this verse speak for itself.....

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. —Matthew 6:5 KJV

Now, most would not view this verse in the context that we are speaking but I however do. Think of it this way, and please forgive me for using such a lame analogy but I believe you will get what I am saying. If you walk into a coffee or chocolate factory. You feel there is nothing wrong with eating chocolate or drinking coffee.....yet others feel it is damaging to your body by the ingredients of caffeine (which is true to a degree but I would be walking in there with ya!) so they stand there praying that you would turn from your sin and God will save you. When we have no idea why these people are freaking out!! We have the right to eat and drink whatever we want to…! That is the context they are viewing you in. What do you honestly think of these people and their idea of God when they see you praying on a corner?

You have to put yourselves in another’s shoes. No doubt in my mind you have the best of intentions. However these women are not going to be convinced by seeing you stand there and pray. I am sure there are some whom might have a last minute change of heart due to a guilty feeling, but this does not always mean that gives them a good understanding of God. Just that you’re guilty for everything. Now we know this is not how God works. And we all know people do “good” things even if they are not saved.

I recently read something from Charles Stanley on how we view God.....Think about these questions in your mind and in your heart.


It is imperative that we are consistent in showing these truths about God.

Standing on the corner, with all the prior (and ongoing) hoopla about Christianity and Abortion and Human Rights issues......is not effectively sharing Gospel, it is making a political statement. IMVHO

Please do not think this is a Catholic only comment. It is directed to all. I have NO issues with fellowshipping with Catholics. I do not agree with all of the RC teachings - But I have not met a denomination that is perfect. And I have met wonderful Catholic Christians. So I am not debating with you, just discussing for fellowship :hug:

Hope this clears things up.....


Your attitude is perplexing to me. It seems like you would advocate doing nothing at all regarding evil - that you simply would prefer to let evil encompass the world as you pray. I would contend that we are to share in Christ's work and try to stop evil.

Many people have changed their minds about abortion due to activism.
I suppose many women who leave the clinics change their minds for a variety of reasons, and I have had several women thank us for being there and citing us for their change of heart. This last Saturday a potential employee showed up for an interview and did not realize that the "medical clinic" was an abortion mill. She was appalled to find this out and was grateful that we told her what the place was. Another abortion bound lady stopped, looked at our literature and signs, took the baby gift we had for her and left. Both she and her husband/boyfriend were delighted that we were there and that she changed her mind. Another couple blew us a big kiss and mothed the words "thank you" as they exited. A lady and her girlfriend rolled their window down and the girlfriend beamed as she said "she didn't do it". I cannot know the motivation for all of these turn arounds but I am positive that our presence and prayers were influential. Nobody can know another's level of understanding of God, but helping to stop someone from grave sin is a step in the right direction. We handed some literature to a Hindu couple after their abortion because they stopped and asked about birth control (theirs had failed). Perhaps they will call and get some info on natural family planning from the Christian agencies listed on the brochure. Perhaps this dialogue will convert them. Who knows? It couldn't hurt.

I also have heard that the abortionists and clinic workers can be affected by the sidewalk counselors. One very notable conversion is that of Norma McCorvey, who worked in an abortion clinic. Her heart was converted by a persistent little girl outside of her clinic. I think that little girl was God's instrument. Was this little girl a hypocrite or making a political statement? I do believe that God expects us to work for the good.

[arunma]

YEAH JIM!!!!!!! :amen: I cannot recall ever hearing prayer for President Clinton from the pulpit. Usually, the prayers are from the standpoint of "Help us to survive through this, as it's obviously against your will." As if that's possible!! Do these people realize that God referred to Nebuchadnezzar as "My servant"?

Yes, I agree. I have to admit, my prayers for President Bush are always along the lines of "get that man out of office before he destroys the church." But I am in the wrong: we ought to offer more helpful prayers for all our leaders, even those of the opposite political party.

[Flynmonkie]

Your attitude is perplexing to me. It seems like you would advocate doing nothing at all regarding evil - that you simply would prefer to let evil encompass the world as you pray. I would contend that we are to share in Christ's work and try to stop evil.


Check my earlier posts. I believe there are other ways than to play the "shame game" making a show using prayer etc... in front of clinics to help change hearts. I have posted many of these things. Now, if you were holding signs on Margaret Sanger...or the original intent of these places.....I am all for it. In addition, incorporating information into the packets they give (I am not familiar with various laws it is illegal in Mo as far as I know I read somewhere they are required by law to give information packets on all options other than abortion available) I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea of setting a Christ like example in this manner. To me it is a poor representation of what Christianity is all about. To me yes I believe God can work with anything and does, it is just too bad He has to. That we are not doing our job and having enough faith that He can work with what He has explicitly instructed us regarding sharing the Gospel and Christianity. Set an example. I see a lopsidedness going on. I believe *some* Christians have become lazy and are leaving things in the States hands rather than incorporating change from *home*. We know true spiritual change cannot happen through "mans" law. IMVHO

[Monica02]

Check my earlier posts. I believe there are other ways than to play the "shame game" making a show using prayer etc... in front of clinics to help change hearts. I have posted many of these things. Now, if you were holding signs on Margaret Sanger...or the original intent of these places.....I am all for it. In addition, incorporating information into the packets they give (I am not familiar with various laws it is illegal in Mo as far as I know I read somewhere they are required by law to give information packets on all options other than abortion available) I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea of setting a Christ like example in this manner. To me it is a poor representation of what Christianity is all about. To me yes I believe God can work with anything and does, it is just too bad He has to. That we are not doing our job and having enough faith that He can work with what He has explicitly instructed us regarding sharing the Gospel and Christianity. Set an example. I see a lopsidedness going on. I believe *some* Christians have become lazy and are leaving things in the States hands rather than incorporating change from *home*. We know true spiritual change cannot happen through "mans" law. IMVHO

Our intent is not to "shame" people out of abortions . A good Christian like you should understand that prayer and the work of the Holy Spirit is responsible for changing hearts. If we ever have the time or opportunity to mention the history of Margaret Sanger we do - it is just that we normally only have a minute or two to communicate with people. We did have a nice discussion on Margaret Sanger with an African-American couple whose daughter was in the clinic. I have seen brochures with Sanger info included and sometimes we hand those out.


Laws requiring an abortion clinic to offer info on alternatives???????????

Maybe in Mo. Not in Illinois. The clinics would not comply anyhow. The clinics around here tell girls that the fetus does not have a head in the first trimester (we called and asked)! The clinic workers are very often told to talk girls into abortions. For crying out loud - in my earlier post I mentioned the lady who went through a job interview and was never told that the place did abortions - this is not the mark of an honest operation! Why would you prefer that the abortion clinic offer the alternatives instead of the sidewalk counselors outside?

[Flynmonkie]

Our intent is not to "shame" people out of abortions . A good Christian like you should understand that prayer and the work of the Holy Spirit is responsible for changing hearts.

I guess it all boils down to how much help you believe God requires of you, or not. I believe He hears my prayers from home, investing in help for those in need. Or how much faith you have in God that He is just, and keeps His promises.

Laws requiring an abortion clinic to offer info on alternatives???????????

There is only one site I could find on this.....

Mandatory Delays and Biased Information Requirements


Government-Mandated Delays Before Abortion
Around the country, states have passed laws that force women to delay their abortions for a specified period of time, generally at least 24 hours, after obtaining state-mandated information designed to persuade them not to have an abortion. In a number of states, the laws require women to make two trips to the clinic: Women must first make a separate trip to the clinic for the sole purpose of receiving anti-choice information and then wait at least 24 hours before returning to the clinic for their abortion.

Government-mandated delays serve no purpose other than to make obtaining an abortion more difficult, dangerous, and expensive for the women who are least able to bear the burden of an unwanted pregnancy. The harm of such restrictions is felt most by those who have the fewest resources — poor women, minors, rural women, working women without insurance or sick leave, and battered women.

Eighteen states currently have laws that force women to delay their abortions unnecessarily: Alabama, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Virginia, and Wisconsin. In a number of other states, mandatory-delay laws have been enacted but are enjoined or otherwise unenforced.
http://www.aclu.org/ReproductiveRights/ReproductiveRights.cfm?ID=9045&c=143


Maybe in Mo. Not in Illinois.

I believe abortion is illegal in my state.

The clinics would not comply anyhow. The clinics around here tell girls that the fetus does not have a head in the first trimester (we called and asked)! The clinic workers are very often told to talk girls into abortions.

here is more information on the states and manditory delays and information.
Biased counseling and mandatory delay laws prohibit women from receiving abortion services until they are subjected to a state-mandated lecture and wait up to three days afterward. Not only do these laws represent unnecessary government intrusions into private decision-making and the doctor-patient relationship, they often even suggest that women be provided with medically inaccurate information such as the disproved claim that abortion causes breast cancer. :scratch: (take this with a grain of salt you have to understand where this is taken from) Mandatory waiting periods create additional burdens for women, especially for rural women who have to travel for many hours to reach a health care provider, and poor women who must take time off work. Mandatory delay laws endanger women’s health by impeding earlier and therefore safer abortion.
http://www.naral.org/yourstate/whodecides/trends/issues_biased_counseling.cfm?RenderForPrint=1

Again it is pretty sad that I cannot find Christian information on this easily. :sigh:

[Monica02]

]I guess it all boils down to how much help you believe God requires of you, or not. I believe He hears my prayers from home, investing in help for those in need. Or how much faith you have in God that He is just, and keeps His promises.

Of course He hears prayers from home or anywhere. I think God requires different things from different people.




I believe abortion is illegal in my state.



Abortion is legal, up to birth, in all states of the US. Laws sometimes will specify health of the mother exceptions - but health can mean anything including mental health (ie-"I am not ready to be a mother"). Thus abortion is legal up to 9 months in the US.


Do you live in Missouri? I saw on the internet that alot of underage women/girls are reffered to Illinois for abortions so they do not have to inform their prents. Illinois is the abortion dumping ground for the Midwest. We border several states with more restrictive laws.

Some states do have more stringent abortion laws such as parental notification for minors, requirements for a 24 hr. waiting period and other option info. The reason you found so much pro-abortion biased info on mandatory waiting periods is because the pro-abortion forces are STEAMED about them. My experience has been that alot of women/girls enter clinics who are not sure they really want an abortion. The women of this mindset are usually the ones that are affected by the sidewalk counselors and change their minds. A 24 hour waiting period /information law would cost the abortion industry megabucks.