Name of Messiah

[davidoffinland]

From Finland.

Quote: Seven things were created before the world. The Torah, the Temple, Garden of Eden, Gehenna, the Throne of Glory, repentance and the name of the Messiah.

Wondering out loud what my Jewish brother & sisters think about the name of the messiah; If it necessiarlly means that the Messiah pre-existed as a spiritual
elohim/god or only pre-existed in the mind of YHWH before the actual existence of Yeshua?

Any thoughts?

Shalom, David.

[kofh2u]

Which messiah?
Ben Joseph or ben David...

[visionary]

I think that Yeshua the Messiah was before the foundations of the world, as He is God.

[kofh2u]

Hmmmmm....
I gotta read that as "The question is way too big for a direct answer."

Tradition asks the Jew, "What is/will be the name of the messiah, since it was one of the seven givens?"

But tradition teaches messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David, true?

[Tishri1]

A possibility::sorry:

Revelation 3:12 12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

[chunkofcoal]

From Finland.


Wondering out loud what my Jewish brother & sisters think about the name of the messiah; If it necessiarlly means that the Messiah pre-existed as a spiritual
elohim/god or only pre-existed in the mind of YHWH before the actual existence of Yeshua?

Any thoughts?

Shalom, David.

I'm not Jewish, but I'll add my two cents anyway.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God." John 1:1

"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." Micah 5:2

The Book of Enoch teaches of His pre-existence - for example -
"And at that hour that Son of Man was named iIn the presence of the Lord of Spirits, And his name before the Head of Days. Yea, before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of the heaven were made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits. He shall be a staff to the righteous whereon to stay themselves and not fall, And he shall be the light of the Gentiles, and the hope of those who are troubled of heart. All who dwell on earth shall fall down and worship before him, And will praise and bless and celebrate with song the Lord of Spirits. And for this reason hath he been chosen and hidden before Him, Before the creation of the world and for evermore."

And Enoch saw Him with God,
"And there I saw One who had a head of days, And His head was white like wool, and with Him was another being whose countenance had the appearance of a man, And his face was full of graciousness, like one of the holy angels. And I asked the angel who went with me and showed me all the hidden things, concerning that Son of Man, who he was, and whence he was, and why he went with the Head of Days? And he answered and said unto me: This is the Son of Man who hath righteousness, With whom dwelleth righteousness, and who revealeth all the treasures of that which is hidden, Because the Lord of Spirits hath chosen him, And whose lot hath the pre-eminence beofre the Lord of Spirits in uprightness for ever."

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Guess for me this would be what is said from me.


I AM saying NO COMMENT...

BUT THIS I WILL SAY...

TRUTH BE TOLD WHEN MESSIAH DOES COME. WHEN IN FACT ALL SHALL BOW BEFORE HIM AS YOSEF'S BROTHERS BOWED BEFORE HIM.

SHABBAT SHALOM,

TAG

[Steve Petersen]

What is the name of King Messiah? R. Abba b. Kahana said: His name is ‘the Lord’; as it is stated, And this is the name whereby he shall be called, The Lord is our righteousness (Jer. XXIII, 6).1 For R. Levi said: It is good for a province when its name is identical with that of its king, and the name of its king identical with that of its God. Lamentations Rabbah 1:51

Talmud, Sanhedrin 98b: Rab said: The world was created only on David's account .24 Samuel said: On Moses account;25 R. Johanan said: For the sake of the Messiah. What is his [the Messiah's] name? — The School of R. Shila said: His name is Shiloh, for it is written, until Shiloh come.26 The School of R. Yannai said: His name is Yinnon, for it is written, His name shall endure for ever:27 e'er the sun was, his name is Yinnon.28 The School of R. Haninah maintained: His name is Haninah, as it is written, Where I will not give you Haninah.29 Others say: His name is Menahem (Comforter) the son of Hezekiah,for it is written, Because Menahem [‘the comforter’ ], that would relieve my soul, is far.30 The Rabbis said: His name is ‘the leper scholar,’ as it is written, Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him a leper, smitten of God, and afflicted.31

(24) That he might sing hymns and psalms to God.
(25) That he might receive the Torah.
(26) Gen. XLIX, 10.
(27) E.V. ‘shall be continued’.
(28) Ps. LXXII, 17.
(29) Jer. XVI, 13. Thus each School evinced intense admiration of its teacher in naming the Messiah after him by a play on words.
(30) Lam. I, 16.
(31) Isa. LIII, 4.

[Henaynei]

Yeshua is HaShem - HaShem knew a redeemer would be necessary and created to meet that need - before time

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Interesting.

[Adammi]

From Finland.

Quote: Seven things were created before the world. The Torah, the Temple, Garden of Eden, Gehenna, the Throne of Glory, repentance and the name of the Messiah.

Wondering out loud what my Jewish brother & sisters think about the name of the messiah; If it necessiarlly means that the Messiah pre-existed as a spiritual
elohim/god or only pre-existed in the mind of YHWH before the actual existence of Yeshua?

Any thoughts?

Shalom, David.
Yahushuah preexists all things even as both Yahueh Elohim the Father and the Spirit preexist all things.


Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Joh 1:3 All things were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made.

[Wags]

Yahushuah preexists all things even as both Yahueh Elohim the Father and the Spirit preexist all things.


Yikes - where did those spellings (Yahushuah, Yahueh) come from? Neither of those is in scripture.



Yeshua.com says:




The name "Jesus" is not false or demonic or anything like that — it is English. It is also thrice removed from the Hebrew/Aramaic "Yeshua". That said, Messiah's name is not "Jesus," it is "Yeshua," yet this does not make it evil to call on the name of "Jesus"— it is simply not His name.

"Yeshua" is a *transliteration* of the Hebrew ישוע. "Yahshua" is an incorrect transliteration of the Hebrew. Those who argue to the contrary are arging on the basis of the following:


Yeshua is a shortened or contracted form of Y'hoshua יהושוע — the Hebrew equivalent of "Joshua." This statement is true.

Y'hoshua means "Yah Saves" or "Yah is salvation" ("Yah" יה being a shortened, Biblical form of the sacred Name of God יהוה, usually represented in English as YHVH or YHWH and misspelled in English as "Jehovah".) This statement is true.

The ancient scribes of the Hebrew Scriptures (Masoretes) purposely mis-spelled (mis-pointed) the sacred Name ("YHVH") to alert readers to avoid its pronunciation, which was considered too sacred to utter in most circumstances. This statement is true.

All throughout the Scriptures, the Masoretes purposely mis-spelled (mis-pointed) other names, like "Y'hoshua," for the same reasons — to avoid pronouncing the sacred Name. This statement is false and cannot be supported. The name "Yah" appears in many places in the Scriptures, including in other names, such as "Yeshayahu" (Isaiah), "Yoshiyahu" (Josiah) and others.

Since "Y'hoshua" has purposely been misspelled, it should be rendered "Yahoshua" (to preserve the "Yah" in the name). This statement is false and cannot be supported. Any 5-year-old Hebrew student can easily pronounce what is written in the Scriptures, which is clearly written and can be transliterated as "Y'hoshua" or "Yehoshua".

Since "Yahoshua" is Joshua's real name, then "Yahshua" must be Jesus' real name. Again, false and unsupported. The name "Yeshua" preceded our Messiah's birth by hundreds of years and appears in such Scriptures as Ezra 5:2. According to Matthew 1:21, the Master was named "Yeshua" because he would save his people from their sins. "Yeshua" is a form of the Hebrew "yeshuah" ישועה, which does not mean "Yah saves," but "salvation"—which is exactly what Yeshua is for us—our salvation. The idea that Yeshua's name must contain the Father's name, making His name "Yahshua" or some other form using "Yah," comes from a distortion of John 5:43 where Yeshua says, "I am come in my Father's name." Following this logic, then we ourselves cannot do anything "in the Father's name" unless our own personal name contains the name "Yah." Coming in the Father's name means simply to come in the Father's authority.

So, based on the vowel pointing in the Hebrew Scriptures, the best transliteration of the Hebrew ישוע is Y-E-S-H-U-A... salvation!

[kofh2u]

What is the name of King Messiah?


Talmud, Sanhedrin 98b: Rab said: The world was created only on David's account .24 Samuel said: On Moses account;25 R. Johanan said: For the sake of the Messiah. What is his [the Messiah's] name? — The School of R. Shila said: His name is Shiloh, for it is written, until Shiloh come.26

The School of R. Yannai said: His name is Yinnon, for it is written, His name shall endure for ever:27 e'er the sun was, his name is Yinnon.28

The School of R. Haninah maintained: His name is Haninah, as it is written, Where I will not give you Haninah.29

Others say: His name is Menahem (Comforter) the son of Hezekiah,for it is written, Because Menahem [‘the comforter’ ], that would relieve my soul, is far.30

The Rabbis said: His name is ‘the leper scholar,’ as it is written, Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him a leper, smitten of God, and afflicted.31

(24) That he might sing hymns and psalms to God.
(25) That he might receive the Torah.
(26) Gen. XLIX, 10.
(27) E.V. ‘shall be continued’.
(28) Ps. LXXII, 17.
(29) Jer. XVI, 13. Thus each School evinced intense admiration of its teacher in naming the Messiah after him by a play on words.
(30) Lam. I, 16.
(31) Isa. LIII, 4.


Thank you for the quotes!

I particularly like that this one seems to confirm the traditional two messiah concept:

Messiah ben Joseph is his name...

The Rabbis said: His name is ‘the leper scholar,’ ...
...as it is written, Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him a leper, smitten of God, and afflicted.