Well...

[Zacharias]

After I left the ICCEC (because of some personal problems with my diocese), I decided to become Roman Catholic. But after awhile I had problems with:

Mary being conceived immaculate.
John the baptist being born immaculate.
Original Sin
The Council of Florence declaring that un-baptized babies go to hell.
If I commit a mortal sin I must go to confession as soon as possible or go to hell if I die (however if one is planning to go to confession but dies before he gets their, one won't go to hell because was going to go to confession).
If I joined a Latin Rite Roman Catholic Church I'd have to have permission to join an Eastern Rite Roman Catholic Church. And one is only allowed to change Rites once in his lifetime.

So I started looking into the Jewish roots of Christianity. I decided that I no longer cared for Apostolic Succession. After about couple weeks I began to notice some parallels with Judaism and Christianity. I began to feel that something was missing. I read the replies to Colabomb and was re-convinced about Apostolic Succession. How can we know what to believe about G~d unless we either decide ourselves or accept what the Church has teached.

I thought about going back to the Roman Catholic Church, however I can't justify their beliefs (And the fact that they call their small services "all sufficient"). Then I remembered the Old Catholic Church.It has valid Apostolic Succession, no weird beliefs, and not as strict (you'll go to hell unless...) as the Roman Catholic Church. And they are similar to my beliefs back when I was ICCEC. So I'm back. :)

[SirTimothy]

Chopping and changing jurisdictions again, my friend? :-P

Ah, well. I personally think if I lived in the USA, I'd become Old Catholic as well...

Timothy

[SirTimothy]

I thought I'd add. Finding an Apostolic community that you agree with and fit in well with is hard. The RCC is fantastic, but I have a few theological qualms with them. Same of the EO church. The anglican church is all that was left on the island--it was STR that convinced me that Apostolic succession and Tradition are certainly very useful in the life of the church, maybe not necessary, but certainly very useful.

Timothy

[Zacharias]

Chopping and changing jurisdictions again, my friend? :-P


I prefer to think of it as, since my family and I are going to a "non-denominational" Pentacostal church why not look into different denominational beliefs. :) I'm not literally "chopping and changing jurisdictions". Chopping and changing faith icons is more like it. ;)

[SirTimothy]

I'd shear as far away from a Pentecostal church as I could, though. So would my paren'ts, probably... we're charismatic, but not pentecostal.

Timothy

[Zacharias]

I'd shear as far away from a Pentecostal church as I could, though. So would my paren'ts, probably... we're charismatic, but not pentecostal.

Timothy
I must say this Pentecostal church isn't one of those "He prayed in tongues! He has the Holy Spirit!" churches. And I've yet to here someone pray in tongues during the service. I always used the word Pentecostal for churches that are "Spirit Filled" as a denomination. And Charismatic for churches that aren't "Spirit Filled" as a denomination but are still just the same "Spirit Filled".

I never new that there was a big difference between the words.

Going by what you said I'd say this church that my family and I are going to is Charismatic. :)

[SirTimothy]

Yeah. Or it might be me that's wrong, but I generally think of Pentecostal churches as being AoG style you must speak in tongues to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Charismatic churches being more low-key.

Timothy

[Mysterium_Fidei]

Hey, life is a journey. If it was a destination we'd already be there.

I've been back and forth and to and fro several times, I've explored Calvinism, Evangelical/Fundamentalism, Traditional Roman Catholicism, but was finally led back to my roots in ECUSA.

I think God sometimes leads us on a journey that could have us darken the doors of many a church, but it is all to lead us to where he wants us to be.

I pray you have found your home in the Old Catholic churches, and if not, God will continue to lead you until you find the Promised Land.

[Zacharias]

Hey, life is a journey. If it was a destination we'd already be there.

I've been back and forth and to an fro several times, I've explored Calvinism, Evangelical/Fundamentalism, Traditional Roman Catholicism, but was finally led back to my roots in ECUSA. I think God sometimes leads us on a journey that could have us darken the doors of many a church, but it is all to lead us to where he wants us to be.

I pray you have found your home in the Old Catholic churches, and if not, God will continue to lead you until you find the Promised Land.
Thanks, that is such an encouraging post. :)

[Wigglesworth]

. . . Then I remembered the Old Catholic Church.It has valid Apostolic Succession, no weird beliefs, and not as strict (you'll go to hell unless...) as the Roman Catholic Church. And they are similar to my beliefs back when I was ICCEC. So I'm back. :)

I like your Conqueror's Cross. :)

[ps139]

After I left the ICCEC (because of some personal problems with my diocese), I decided to become Roman Catholic. But after awhile I had problems with:

John the baptist being born immaculate.
Some Catholics believe this but I don't, it is rarely taught, and it is a speculation of some, not doctrine.
The Council of Florence declaring that un-baptized babies go to hell.
This is not an accurate representation of our beliefs.

Freak4JC - I do wish you well!

[Zacharias]

This is not an accurate representation of our beliefs.

Freak4JC - I do wish you well!
Oh, someone on OBOB had said that.

I wish you well also. :)

[Zacharias]

I like your Conqueror's Cross. :)
Except for female ordination, it best describes my beliefs. :)

[Aymn27]

Except for female ordination, it best describes my beliefs. :)Yea, me too(well, maybe the ICCEC does more so)...not all jurisdictions ordain women...

[Zacharias]

Yea, me too(well, maybe the ICCEC does more so)...not all jurisdictions ordain women...
5) Only males may be ordained to any of the three offices of the Sacred Ministry.

As taken from the U.S. site: http://www.oldcatholic.com/requirements.htm

[Albion]

5) Only males may be ordained to any of the three offices of the Sacred Ministry.

As taken from the U.S. site: http://www.oldcatholic.com/requirements.htm

The US site of one particular Old Catholic jurisdiction among many, that is. Is this the church you belong to?

[Zacharias]

The US site of one particular Old Catholic jurisdiction among many, that is. Is this the church you belong to?
This is the U.S. Old Catholic website so I'm figuring that this speaks for the U.S. I don't belong to one yet. I'm still looking for one near me. :)

[SirTimothy]

Well Father Rick's church, the OCCNA does ordain women--one of their canons is a woman in his diocese.

Timothy

[Rev. Smith]

After I left the ICCEC (because of some personal problems with my diocese), I decided to become Roman Catholic. But after awhile I had problems with:

Mary being conceived immaculate.
John the baptist being born immaculate.
Original Sin
The Council of Florence declaring that un-baptized babies go to hell.
If I commit a mortal sin I must go to confession as soon as possible or go to hell if I die (however if one is planning to go to confession but dies before he gets their, one won't go to hell because was going to go to confession).
If I joined a Latin Rite Roman Catholic Church I'd have to have permission to join an Eastern Rite Roman Catholic Church. And one is only allowed to change Rites once in his lifetime.

So I started looking into the Jewish roots of Christianity. I decided that I no longer cared for Apostolic Succession. After about couple weeks I began to notice some parallels with Judaism and Christianity. I began to feel that something was missing. I read the replies to Colabomb and was re-convinced about Apostolic Succession. How can we know what to believe about G~d unless we either decide ourselves or accept what the Church has teached.

I thought about going back to the Roman Catholic Church, however I can't justify their beliefs (And the fact that they call their small services "all sufficient"). Then I remembered the Old Catholic Church.It has valid Apostolic Succession, no weird beliefs, and not as strict (you'll go to hell unless...) as the Roman Catholic Church. And they are similar to my beliefs back when I was ICCEC. So I'm back. :)

You never really "left" to come back, but welcome to our community! Which jurisdiction/ parish do you worship with?

[Zacharias]

Well Father Rick's church, the OCCNA does ordain women--one of their canons is a woman in his diocese.

Timothy
Oh, I didn't know that.

You never really "left" to come back, but welcome to our community! Which jurisdiction/ parish do you worship with?
I can't find one where I live. :sigh:

[Albion]

This is the U.S. Old Catholic website so I'm figuring that this speaks for the U.S. I don't belong to one yet.

That's what I was afraid you were concluding. There is no "speaks for the US" website of "THE" OC church. There are many Old Catholic churches, some in communion with Utrecht and most which are not. The site you referred to was the site of only one, although the name of that particular group sounds like it is the one and only in this country, "Old Catholic Church of the United States." It has six parishes.

There's also the "Old Catholic Church of America." As noted by someone else, Fr. Rick's church is the "OCC of North America" and that's just how churches name themselves. If we were talking about Protestant churches, we'd take this for granted, but a lot of people who are familiar with the unity of the Roman Catholic Church assume that the Old Catholics, having come from the RCC, are structured in the same manner as the Roman Catholic Church.

[Colabomb]

Freak, you have been dancing around the issue for a while now. From what you say, you would make a great Continuing Anglican.

They have apostolic succession (whether or not it is necessary), they don't ordain women, and they allow you to disagree as long as you do not fall into heresy.

[Zacharias]

Freak, you have been dancing around the issue for a while now. From what you say, you would make a great Continuing Anglican.

They have apostolic succession (whether or not it is necessary), they don't ordain women, and they allow you to disagree as long as you do not fall into heresy.
Are they conservative in their view points? :)

[Colabomb]

Are they conservative in their view points? :)
Yes.

No female priests, Homosexuality is considered a sin. Abortion is the taking of a human life.

[Zacharias]

Yes.

No female priests, Homosexuality is considered a sin.
I'll look into them. :)

[Zacharias]

What's their Apostolic line? I'll probably stay Old Catholic because of their undisputed Apostolic line. :)

[Mysterium_Fidei]

What's their Apostolic line? I'll probably stay Old Catholic because of their undisputed Apostolic line. :)

Of course, all Apostolic lines are disputed by some. The Eastern Orthodox regard the Roman Catholics and everyone else as outside of Apostolic Succession. The Roman Catholics regard the Eastern Orthodox, the Old Catholics, and some other groups as in Apostolic Succession, while the do not regard the Anglican Communion as being within Succession.

Some do not believe any to be in Succession as some believe it doesn't exist.
We (The Anglican Communion) typically view many to be within Succession

In the end it is a question of authority. I do not think either Rome or Byzantium have all the answers, so I reside Canterbury. Continue to search of course, but I implore you to find a Communion. It is not safe in this world of wolves to be outside a flock.

[Wigglesworth]

This is the U.S. Old Catholic website so I'm figuring that this speaks for the U.S. I don't belong to one yet. I'm still looking for one near me. :)

There are many different "Old Catholic" and "Anglican" communions with different approaches to disputed issues. Check out the "Useful Links" tread in STR for an eye opener on some of the folks who have taken the brands.

The Polish National Catholic Church (http://www.bvmc.org), for one example, started with people who were excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church for being to liberal, one might say, then were booted by the Utrecht Union for being to conservative. Churches in the Utrecht Union ordain women.

:crossrc:

[Zacharias]

There are many different "Old Catholic" and "Anglican" communions with different approaches to disputed issues. Check out the "Useful Links" tread in STR for an eye opener on some of the folks who have taken the brands.

The Polish National Catholic Church (http://www.bvmc.org), for one example, started with people who were excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church for being to liberal, one might say, then were booted by the Utrecht Union for being to conservative. Churches in the Utrecht Union ordain women.

:crossrc:
Thanks but there are no parishes near me. :sigh:

[Rev. Smith]

I can't find one where I live. :sigh:

Our Church, Christ Catholic Church International, has a vibrant home church movement. We have a fairly well organised support system for those small worship communities that are getting started.

We are, at the moment, on the conservative side of many issues - although that is changeing slowly, and we are always inclusive; not in the sense that we do not view divorce (adultry) and homosexual acts as sin, but in the sense that we acknowledge that all of us struggle with sin, and a struggle with sin must never be a barrier to spiritual union with God.

Feel free to drop me a line at revsmith@stfechins.org and I'll see that you get thefor you need to participate in the home church program.

[Zacharias]

Feel free to drop me a line at revsmith@stfechins.org and I'll see that you get thefor you need to participate in the home church program.
Thanks but I'm not allowed to give my e-mail adress to anyone. :)

[Zacharias]

Does anyone have the parish listings for the TAC? :)

[Wigglesworth]

There is this (http://www.acahome.org/stsearch.htm).

[Zacharias]

There is this (http://www.acahome.org/stsearch.htm).
Thanks, however they don't have a parish near me. :sigh:

[gtsecc]

What is your problem with Eastern Orthodoxy?

[Zacharias]

What is your problem with Eastern Orthodoxy?
I love Eastern Orthodoxy (I'd say that I agree with their beliefs) however I'm Charismatic.

[Colabomb]

What's their Apostolic line? I'll probably stay Old Catholic because of their undisputed Apostolic line. :)
Episcopalian and Old Catholic.

Old, pre 1970's Episcopalian.

[Zacharias]

Episcopalian and Old Catholic.

Old, pre 1970's Episcopalian.
Thanks, but I couldn't find a parish near me. :)

[Colabomb]

Thanks, but I couldn't find a parish near me. :)
Not every Cont. Anglican Church is TAC.

[Zacharias]

Not every Cont. Anglican Church is TAC.
I know that. I also checked REC, ACC, and more. :)

[Colabomb]

I know that. I also checked REC, ACC, and more. :)
ok.