Question: Jesus Christ as God?

[Justin761985]

Hello,

I believe that Jesus Christ is God, and I've had others tell me that he is not. What do you believe and could you please give scriptures to support your belief?

Thanks and God Bless,
Justin.

[snoochface]

Jesus is the physical manifestation of God who came to earth. He is part of the trinity that comprises God. He is God.

John 10:30
John 8:19
John 1:1

[TheListener]

John 1:1-14



1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.



3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=31#fen-NIV-26040a)] it.

6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=31#fen-NIV-26044b)]

10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=31#fen-NIV-26048c)] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. 14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=31#fen-NIV-26049d)] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

[ImHisServant]

When Jesus was born, the Word became Flesh. Who's word?? God's.

Knowing that Jesus and God are 2 as 1 sometimes doesn't help. Husband and Wife are 2 as 1... yet they are 2 different people.

The trinity seems hard for many to grasp... as it was for me also. Until one man put it so simply.

Picture an egg... there are 3 parts of an egg... 1) a shell 2) the white 3) the yoke
there are 3 different, unique and separate parts.... yet it is only 1 egg. In the same way, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 3 as 1.

Hope that helps

[TheListener]

One I heard is thinking of water as 3 entities: water, ice & steam. They are all part of the same water with three different characteristics. But because the Trinity of God is so unique there is no way of understanding it completely.

As is God's wisdom, something man made could be easily understood but God isn't man made & can be difficult to grasp.

[Tenorvoice]

Very great answers everyone.

[vinc]

FROM THE BIBLE SCRIPTURES


Prophecy of Isaiah (an Old Testament Prophet) and its Fulfillment in the Book of Matthew (a New Testament Disciple of Jesus Christ)

Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matthew 1:23 - Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

The above verse from Isaiah is a prophecy of Isaiah concerning Lord Jesus Christ (in English or Yahshua/Yahushua in Hebrew, or Iesus Christos in Greek, or Issa Masih in Urdu) who is called Immanuel which means "God with us". This is the most clear verse in the Bible which speaks of the Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Existence of Lord Jesus Christ even before the Creation

John 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Here, Jesus says that He was alive and present in the Universe even before Abraham times.

John 1:15 - John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

John the Baptist says that Jesus Christ was present in the Universe even before him although on earth Jesus Christ was born after John the Baptist was born.

John 17:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus Christ is praying to the Father and we can see that He lived in glory with The Heavenly Father even before the creation of the world(s).

Jesus Christ was and is The Word-God

John 1:1-3 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The above verse says that in the Beginning of Creation was the Word (Christ or Logos) and the Word was with God and the Word was God which means Christ was God.

John 1:10 - He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

He (Word God i.e Christ) was in the world and the world was created by Him and the world did not recognise Him as the Creator and God. He came to His own created children and was not recieved by them.

Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of the Eternal Heavenly Father-God

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Word which was God was made flesh and lived among humans like us on earth and those of us humans who were present at that time and who recognised Him beheld His glory as that of the Only Begotten of The Father. This clearly shows that it was indeed God that came in human flesh form and lived among us.

John 1:17,18 - For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Here, it clearly says that, no man has seen God at any time except the Only Begotten Son Lord Jesus Christ.

John 14:28 - .....for my Father is greater than I.

Jesus Christ confesses frankly that The Eternal Heavenly Father is greater than Him.

Matthew 17:5 - While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Father-God testified that Lord Jesus Christ was His beloved Son in whom He was well-pleased.

John 3:35 - The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

Father-God loves Lord Jesus Christ (His Son) and has given all things into His able hands.

John 5:19-27 - Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

Jesus Christ says that He can do nothing of Himself except it be from Father-God and what He sees the Eternal Father doing that He does.

John 5:22,23 - For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

No one is judged by God The Father. Judgement is committed to The Son-God i.e Lord Jesus Christ so that all creation should honour The Son-God (Lord Jesus Christ) even as they honour The Heavenly Father who had sent Him to earth.

The Devils or Evil Spirits knew that Jesus Christ was the Son of God

Matthew 8:29 - And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Luke 4:41 - And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

We see in the above verses that Christ is clearly recognised by the Devils and Evil Spirits that He is the Christ, the Son of The Eternal Father.

1 John 5:20 - And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Here, John testifies that Jesus Christ is the True God.

John 6:42 - And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

There is no other way of complete salvation except through Lord Jesus Christ. These are extremely strong words spoken by Lord Jesus Christ.

John 14:9-11 - Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Jesus Christ urges Philip to believe Him that if Philip has seen Him than it is almost like as if Philip had seen The Eternal Father Himself.

Jesus Christ is the Express (or Direct) Image of Father-God

Colossians 1:19 - For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Apostle Paul declares that Jesus Christ was and is the Human-like Form in which the fulness (or the full presence) of Father-God dwelt. It means that Jesus Christ was the express image of the Father. So, if we have seen Jesus Christ, it indirectly means that we have seen the "visible form" of our Eternal, heavenly God The Father.

1 John 1:2 - ( For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us ).

Here it says, that Jesus Christ who was with God The Father eternally was manifested on earth in human form.

John 10:30 - I and my Father are one.

Jesus clearly says here that He and The Eternal Heavenly Father are one.

1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Here, Jesus says that The Eternal Heavenly Father, Himself (Word) and The Holy Spirit are all one. Jesus Christ is the Word.

Philippians 2:5-11 - Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The above verses indicate that Jesus Christ was in the "Form of God" but humbled Himself and made Himself of no reputation. Accordingly, The Invisible Eternal Heavenly Father has exalted Him above all Creation in the Universe. And when we give glory to Jesus Christ as God, we are indirectly giving glory to The Invisible Eternal Heavenly Father also.

Jesus Christ was Sent from Above by The Eternal Heavenly Father

John 8:23 - And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Jesus Christ clearly says that He is from above (some kind of a Celestial Entity or an Extra Terrestrial Entity or Spiritual Entity from Sky/Heavens/Celestial or Spiritual Realms) and not of this world (meaning not a Human or Terrestrial).

1 John 4:14 - And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

John alongwith the other Disciples testifies what they have seen that Jesus Christ was sent by The Eternal Heavenly Father to be as the Saviour of the World.

John 16:28 - I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Jesus clearly says here that He came from Father-God into the world and would again leave the world in order to go back to Father-God from where He came.

John 13:13 - Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

Here, Jesus Christ agrees that He is being rightfully referred as Master and Lord.

Continued....

[vinc]

FROM OTHER SPIRITUAL RESOURCES

(1) Visions of the Spiritual World
( http://www.eaglevision.com.my/ssvisions.htm )

God, who is Love, is seen in the person of Jesus sitting on the throne in the highest heaven. From Him, who is the "Sun of Righteousness," and the "Light of the World," healing and life-giving rays and waves of light and love are seen flowing out through every saint and angel, and bringing to whatever they touch vitalizing and vivifying power. There is in heaven neither east or west, nor north nor south, but for each individual soul or angel, Christ's throne appears as the center of all things.

Then another of the saints said, "All the inhabitants of heaven know that God is Love, but it had been hidden from all eternity that His love is so wonderful that He would become man to save sinners, and for their cleansing would die on the Cross. He suffered thus that He might save men, and all creation, which is in subjection to vanity. Thus God, in becoming man, has shown His heart to His children, but had any other means been used His infinite love would have remained forever hidden. "Now the whole creation, with earnest expectation, awaits the manifestation of the sons of God, when they shall be again restored and glorified. But, at present, they, and all creation, will remain groaning and travailing till this new creation comes to pass. And those also who have been born again groan within themselves, waiting for the redemption of the body; and the time approaches when the whole creation, being obedient to God in all things, will be freed from corruption, and from this vanity forever. Then will it remain eternally happy in God, and will fulfill in itself the purpose for which it was created. Then God will be all in all" (Rom. 8:18-23).

(2) At The Master's Feet
( http://www.sadhusundarsingh.homestead.com/files/feet.html )

Many believers again--like the man born blind, on receiving his sight--are able to see Jesus as a prophet and the Son of Man, but do not regard Him as the Christ and the Son of God (John ix.17, 35-37), until I am revealed to them a second time in power.

Man also has a natural desire that he should see Him in whom he believes and who loves him. But the Father cannot be seen, for He is by nature incomprehensible, and he who would comprehend Him must have the same nature. But man is a comprehensible creature, and being so cannot see God. Since, however, God is Love and He has given to man that same faculty of love, therefore, in order that that craving for love might be satisfied, He adopted a form of existence that man could comprehend. Thus He became man, and His children with all the holy angels may see Him and enjoy Him (Col. i.15, ii.9). Therefore I said that he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father (John xiv.9-10). And although while in the form of man I am called the Son, I am the eternal and everlasting Father (Isa. ix.6).

I and the Father and the Holy Spirit are One. Just as in the sun there are both heat and light, but the light is not heat, and the heat is not light, but both are one, though in their manifestation they have different forms, so I and the Holy Spirit, proceeding from the Father, bring light and heat to the world. The Spirit, which is the baptismal fire, burns to ashes in the hearts of believers all manner of sin and iniquity, making them pure and holy. I who am the True Light (John i.9, viii.12), dissipate all dark and evil desires, and leading them in the way of righteousness bring them at last to their eternal home. Yet We are not three but One, just as the sun is but one.

(3) Heaven And Its Wonders And Hell From Things Seen and Heard by Emanuel Swedenborg
( http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh.html )

Chapter 1 - First of all it must be known who the God of heaven is, since upon that all the other things depend. Throughout all heaven no other than the Lord alone is acknowledged as the God of heaven. There it is said, as He Himself taught,

That He is one with the Father;that the Father is in Him, and He in the Father;that he who sees Him sees the Father;and that every thing that is holy goes forth from Him (John 10:30, 38; 14:9-11; 16:13-15).

I have often talked with angels on this subject, and they have invariably declared that in heaven they are unable to divide the Divine into three, because they know and perceive that the Divine is One and this One is in the Lord.

Infants, who form a third part of heaven, are all initiated into the acknowledgment and belief that the Lord is their Father, and afterwards that He is the Lord of all, thus the God of heaven and earth. That children grow up in heaven and are perfected by means of knowledges, even to angelic intelligence and wisdom, will be seen in the following pages.

Those who are of the church cannot doubt that the Lord is the God of heaven, for He Himself taught,

That all things of the Father are His (Matt. xi. 27; John xvi. 15; xvii.2).
And that He hath all power in heaven and on earth (Matt. xxviii. 18).

He says "in heaven and on earth," because He that rules heaven rules the earth also, for the one depends upon the other. "Ruling heaven and earth" means to receive from the Lord every good pertaining to love and every truth pertaining to faith, thus all intelligence and wisdom, and in consequence all happiness, in a word, eternal life.


(4) Aquarian Gospel of Jesus The Christ
( http://www.fatherhurley.com/ag/aquariangospel-fulltext.htm )

Chapter 9:14-20 - Then let us study God, the One, the Three, the Seven.Before the worlds were formed all things were One; just Spirit, Universal Breath.And Spirit breathed, and that which was not manifest became the Fire and Thought of Heaven, the Father-God, the Mother-God.And when the Fire and Thought of heaven in union breathed, their son, their only son, was born. This son is Love whom men have called the Christ. Men call the Thought of heaven the Holy Breath.And when the Triune God breathed forth, lo, seven Spirits stood before the throne. These are Elohim, creative spirits of the universe.And these are they who said, Let us make man; and in their image man was made.

(5) The Life of Saint Issa (aka Lord Jesus Christ)

Chapter 1:1-4 - The earth has trembled and the heavens have wept because of a great crime which has been committed in the land of Israel. For they have tortured and there put to death the great and just Issa, in whom dwelt the soul of the universe, Which was incarnate in a simple mortal in order to do good to men and to exterminate their evil thoughts. And in order to bring back man degraded by his sins to a life of peace, love, and happiness and to recall to him the one and indivisible Creator, whose mercy is infinite and without bounds.

Hope all this gives an understanding of the mystery of the Divinity of Lord Jesus Christ (in English or Yahshua/Yahushua in Hebrew, or Iesus Christos in Greek, or Issa Masih in Urdu).

[Justin761985]

Thank you everyone for your responses. They have been very helpful.

God Bless,
Justin.

[servant4ever]

Colossians 1:15 states that Jesus is the image of the invisible God. He is God on earth. Thought I'd add that verse. :)

servant4ever

[Simonline]

When Jesus was born, the Word became Flesh. Who's word?? God's.

Knowing that Jesus and God are 2 as 1 sometimes doesn't help. Husband and Wife are 2 as 1... yet they are 2 different people.

The trinity seems hard for many to grasp... as it was for me also. Until one man put it so simply.

Picture an egg... there are 3 parts of an egg... 1) a shell 2) the white 3) the yoke
there are 3 different, unique and separate parts.... yet it is only 1 egg. In the same way, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 3 as 1.

Hope that helps

Jesus and 'God' are not 2 as 1 at all. God has declared himself to be ONE BEING who is also three separate and distinct Persons - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. To compare 'Jesus and 'God'' as '2 as 1' in the way that a husband and wife are '2 as 1' is totally misleading since the husband and wife are actually two separate and distinct created beings who are spiritually united through marriage, but they are definitely not one being in the way that God [Father, Son and Holy Spirit] is One Being. Marriage is a profound spiritual mystery, a type of the special sacrosanct relationship between God and redeemed Humanity. Whilst both God and Humanity are 'one' within that relationship, they are definitely not One in Being and essence (in the way that the three Persons of the Trinity are One in Being and essence) since there are also elements of inequality within the relationship between God and redeemed humanity [God is Infinite Divine Creator, Humans are finite human creatures] as well as elements of equality [both God and humans bear the same image]. See: Leadership Is Male by David Pawson available online from www.anchor-recordings.com (http://www.anchor-recordings.com/) (UK) or www.Goodseed.org (http://www.goodseed.org/) (USA) or from your local Christian bookstore or public lending library.

The picture of the egg is also a bad metaphor since the component parts of an egg are not of the same essence and therefore are entirely separate component parts of the egg (separate in both Nature and essence).

See my posts as part of the following thread: http://www.christianforums.com/t1826132-trinity-question.html

Simonline.

[Simonline]

One I heard is thinking of water as 3 entities: water, ice & steam. They are all part of the same water with three different characteristics. But because the Trinity of God is so unique there is no way of understanding it completely.

As is God's wisdom, something man made could be easily understood but God isn't man made & can be difficult to grasp.

Again this is a bad metaphor. The problem with this metaphor is that it is actually the ancient heresy of Sabellianism (or Modalism) because in order to be true to the Trinitarian revelation of Scripture H2O has to be water, ice and steam simultaneously (in order to accurately represent the Tri-Unity (3in1) of the Divine Being) As H2O can only be water, ice and steam consecutively (one after the other) rather than simultaneously (all at the same time) then it is simply an illustration of Sabellianism or 'Modalism' and therefore a bad metaphor [Now do you understand why God says no created thing can come even remotely close to accurately representing me therefore don't even try because no matter how well intentioned your effort it will inevitably cause you to have a warped understanding of who I am and what I am really like. Thus, 'Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them for I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.' (Ex.20:4-6)?]

Sabellianism (modern name 'Modalism') is the belief that God is essentially Unitarian (one being/one Person) but who at different points assumes different 'persona' or 'masks' like a single actor playing multiple parts (which obviously cannot be done simultaneously). It is generally believed that God was 'Father' during the 'Old Testament'; the 'Son' during the Incarnation and the 'Holy Spirit' since Pentecost. However, this theory unravels at the Messiah's baptism since all three Persons of the Godhead made simultaneous 'guest appearances'

See my posts as part of the following thread: http://www.christianforums.com/t1826132-trinity-question.html

Simonline.

[PlumTea]

http://www.livingwaters.com/witnessingtool/deityofJesus.shtml
above had list of verses

Rev. 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

The book of Revelation is the revelation of Jesus. He says a few times thoughout the book that he is the alpha & omega, the Almighty, and perhaps some others.

[twistedsketch]

Again this is a bad metaphor. The problem with this metaphor is that it is actually the ancient heresy of Sabellianism (or Modalism) because in order to be true to the Trinitarian revelation of Scripture H2O has to be water, ice and steam simultaneously (in order to accurately represent the Tri-Unity (3in1) of the Divine Being) As H2O can only be water, ice and steam consecutively (one after the other) rather than simultaneously (all at the same time) then it is simply an illustration of Sabellianism or 'Modalism' and therefore a bad metaphor [Now do you understand why God says no created thing can come even remotely close to accurately representing me therefore don't even try because no matter how well intentioned your effort it will inevitably cause you to have a warped understanding of who I am and what I am really like. Thus, 'Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them for I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.' (Ex.20:4-6)?]

Sabellianism (modern name 'Modalism') is the belief that God is essentially Unitarian (one being/one Person) but who at different points assumes different 'persona' or 'masks' like a single actor playing multiple parts (which obviously cannot be done simultaneously). It is generally believed that God was 'Father' during the 'Old Testament'; the 'Son' during the Incarnation and the 'Holy Spirit' since Pentecost. However, this theory unravels at the Messiah's baptism since all three Persons of the Godhead made simultaneous 'guest appearances'

See my posts as part of the following thread: http://www.christianforums.com/t1826132-trinity-question.html

Hey, every illustration breaks down at some point.

[Simonline]

Hey, every illustration breaks down at some point.

Exactly. That's my point (as your signature so aptly states). That's why it's best not to use them but rather just state exactly what the Scriptures state on any and all given subjects (all of the Scriptures and not just our favourite presuppositional theological 'proof texts'). That means we have to so familiarize ourselves with the Judeo-Christian Scriptures that they become a part of us, a living extension of who we are as Christians, and thus 'learn' them in their correct contexts (2Tim.2:15).

Simonline

[SNPete]

Hello,

I believe that Jesus Christ is God, and I've had others tell me that he is not. What do you believe and could you please give scriptures to support your belief?

Thanks and God Bless,
Justin.

Here is a list of comparative statements made in the Bible about God and Jesus. These are not the usual proofs for the deity of Christ, but are very effective.



As creator: God- Gen 1:1 Jesus- Col 1:16



As Savior: God- Isaiah 43:11 Jesus-Titus 3:6



As The Alpha and the Omega: God-Rev. 21:6 Jesus: Rev 22:13



The First and the Last: God-Isaiah 44:6 Jesus- Rev 1:17 and 2:8



Every Knee Shall Bow God Isaiah 45:23 Jesus-Phil 2:10-11

[zitreksun]

Very good analogies with the steam and the egg