Y'eshua versus Jesus

[queenm04]

Shalom All,



Few months back i bought the version of d bible 'The Scriptures', & learnt how the bible was transliterated. How the name of people & places were sort of adapted. More importantly how the Name 'God' is sort of a pagan concept, and the name Jesus is a transliteration.


I just wanted to know if this means that Jesus as a name does not exist


I took the bible with when i went home, and my father just had 2 seize that copy from me. so since he discoverd this he uses in the Name of Y'eshua Hamoshiach evn when he prays 4 the food.LOL :D:D:D last weekend they visited, while praying 4 food, he said it, In the name of Y'....and my mom said u must never use that name when laying hands on people, coz they will jump from knee position thinking you are mentioning names from d other camp, (so much 4 ignorance)

[CovenantRay]

Shalom All,



Few months back i bought the version of d bible 'The Scriptures', & learnt how the bible was transliterated. How the name of people & places were sort of adapted. More importantly how the Name 'God' is sort of a pagan concept, and the name Jesus is a transliteration.


I just wanted to know if this means that Jesus as a name does not exist


I took the bible with when i went home, and my father just had 2 seize that copy from me. so since he discoverd this he uses in the Name of Y'eshua Hamoshiach evn when he prays 4 the food.LOL last weekend they visited, while praying 4 food, he said it, In the name of Y'....and my mom said u must never use that name when laying hands on people, coz they will jump from knee position thinking you are mentioning names from d other camp, (so much 4 ignorance)


Shalom:

Jesus is a Greek name. In the time of Y'shua, most of the people would have spoken Aramaic as a language. Hebrew in the Temple and Synagogues, and Greek in Government and as a traveler to other Roman empire lands.

<insert disclaimer here about this being my own opinion, any similarity between this and other people's opinions is purly coincidental>

I imagine that Y'shua would have responded to a Greek speaker to the name "Jesus", however I would doubt that Miriam (Mary) would have called Him to dinner by that name. As Y'shua is omniscient (Having universal knowledge; knowing all things; infinitely knowing or wise), Miriam probably never actually had to call him to dinner, but you get the idea. ;) :blush:


CovenantRay :prayer:

[Zacharias]

The Thadman explains it all: http://www.aramaicnt.org/NEW/index.php?p=23

[Bruce101]

Freak4JC,
Very good link.
Bruce

[bigg35]

I agree, very good link

[queenm04]

Thanks 4 d response & d link,



n the end, Jesus is not some pagan word or some great conspiracy to prevent people from pronouncing it properly. Its origins can be easily traced back through all 5 languages that it passed through, allowing us to arrive at the conclusion that it is, in fact, an English Greco-Hellenized Semitic word with German influence.



We thank HaShem for our Yiddish brethren that believe in Y'eshua & helped restore the Name.



Does the same go for all the names / words, Moshe, Tehillim, Yochanan, etc?



Coz i imagine (sorry 4 using this example it was d only one i couuld think of) Abdul or Ibrahim ar still the same even pronounced & written like that by english speakers?

[baraqemet]

repeat :blush:

[The Thadman]

The Thadman explains it all: http://www.aramaicnt.org/NEW/index.php?p=23

Lol, you wouldn't believe how much time it took me to -format- that article, let alone write it :)

It's also due for a serious overhaul and cleanup. :)

Peace!
-Steve-o

[queenm04]

The Thadman explains it all: http://www.aramaicnt.org/NEW/index.php?p=23


WOW Thadman, i thought you were just referring me to another link,


Great work done there:thumbsup:

[Torah]

I think I’ll stick to his Hebrew or Aramaic name; Yehoshua ,or Yeshua.

Good link Freak4jc, :wave:

[The Thadman]

Does the same go for all the names / words, Moshe, Tehillim, Yochanan, etc?

Coz i imagine (sorry 4 using this example it was d only one i couuld think of) Abdul or Ibrahim ar still the same even pronounced & written like that by english speakers?

Not all of them, but some. There is a convention for shins to be translated into sigmas as when Christianity and a lot of Judaism went Greek, the Greek alphabet does not sport a letter for an "SH" sound. E

"Elijah" in English is "ee-LAI-zhah" but as it's transliterated should be "ey-lee-YAH." "Moses" falls victim to Greek and should be "Moshe" but many people read that in English and say "MOH-shee" when it should be "moh-SHEY."

Even take a look at Jesus' last words according to Mark and Matthew:

Eloi eloi, lama sabakhthani (É-loee é-loee lah-mah sah-bakh-thah-nee)

In Aramaic it is pronounced:

Elâhi elâhi lamâ shavaqthani (É-lah-hee é-lah-hee la-mah sha-baq-thah-nee

In Greek, one can't have an "h" sound in the middle of a word, and there are no direct equivalents to shin or qof. In order to write it, things had to be modified for the Greek alphabet, and then our romanized transliterations are read in an English dialect, thus shifting the sounds even more. :)

The English language morphs the sounds of the letters, especially when they've already been put through a "Greek filter" :)

Peace! (in English, pronounced "pîs," not "péahkeh" like it's spelled! :P )
-Steve-o

[Mikhail]

Not all of them, but some. There is a convention for shins to be translated into sigmas as when Christianity and a lot of Judaism went Greek, the Greek alphabet does not sport a letter for an "SH" sound. E

"Elijah" in English is "ee-LAI-zhah" but as it's transliterated should be "ey-lee-YAH." "Moses" falls victim to Greek and should be "Moshe" but many people read that in English and say "MOH-shee" when it should be "moh-SHEY."

Even take a look at Jesus' last words according to Mark and Matthew:

Eloi eloi, lama sabakhthani (É-loee é-loee lah-mah sah-bakh-thah-nee)

In Aramaic it is pronounced:

Elâhi elâhi lamâ shavaqthani (É-lah-hee é-lah-hee la-mah sha-baq-thah-nee

In Greek, one can't have an "h" sound in the middle of a word, and there are no direct equivalents to shin or qof. In order to write it, things had to be modified for the Greek alphabet, and then our romanized transliterations are read in an English dialect, thus shifting the sounds even more. :)

The English language morphs the sounds of the letters, especially when they've already been put through a "Greek filter" :)

Peace! (in English, pronounced "pîs," not "pehahkeh" like it's spelled!)
-Steve-o

Transliteration just drives you crazy when you start learning hebrew and the transliteration on the songs and overhead are just so far off it is rediculous some are saphardic many Ashkenazi and few are accurate.
Shalom,
Mikhail

[shmuel]

Transliteration just drives you crazy when you start learning hebrew and the transliteration on the songs and overhead are just so far off it is rediculous some are saphardic many Ashkenazi and few are accurate.

Well, a community/congregation needs to come to some decision on how it is going to pronounce Hebrew, whether academic, Ashkenazi, modern Israeli, or something else. Of course, it helps if those making decisions know enough Hebrew to understand the issues, such as how to pronounce a tav without a dagesh: "th","t", or "s" or how to pronounce a qamatz: "a" or "o", etc.

S

[debi b]

Of course, it helps if those making decisions know enough Hebrew to understand the issues, such as how to pronounce a tav without a dagesh: "th","t", or "s" or how to pronounce a qamatz: "a" or "o", etc.

S



There are good reasons for a qamatz to be pronounced as both "a" and "o"

;)

[shmuel]

There are good reasons for a qamatz to be pronounced as both "a" and "o"

I'm not talking about the distinction between a qamatz gadol and a qamatz qatan. I'm talking about the Ashkenazi pronunciation of the qamatz gadol as "o", for example, "omein" vs "amein". Nor am I saying that one is right, and one is wrong. Both are valid pronunciations. It just depends on community.

S

[debi b]

I don't have any trouble understanding someone if they pronounce it "omein" or "amein" :) It may take some getting used to, but it is kinda like crick and creek. Just talk to someone from Boston ;)

[shmuel]

I don't have any trouble understanding someone if they pronounce it "omein" or "amein" :) It may take some getting used to, but it is kinda like crick and creek. Just talk to someone from Boston ;)

Of course! No disagreement here. It all depends on the community in which you learned Hebrew. However, a gentile who doesn't know the facts might be led to believe that "omein" is "Jewish" while "amein" or "amen" is "Christian". The issues are complex. Hebrew has been/is pronounced many different ways at different times and places. Jews living in countries where the dominant language did not have an "sh" sound lost the ability to make that sound thus shin was pronounced as "s".

An interesting tidbit is that between the 1st century and the time that the Masoretes developed their vowel pointing system there was a sound shift in Hebrew. The "a" sound in some closed, unaccented syllables shifted from "a" to "i". Thus, the name of the mother of Yeshua` that is pronounced as "Miryam" following the Masoretic pointing was pronounced "Maryam" in the 1st century.

S