Question on Eternal Salvation.. AGAIN..

[DawnTillery]

I know I posted on this once before and I got an opinion of a very nice Gentlemen that explained a lot to me (Thank you)

Someone told me today -- that people that believe in Eternal Salvation never repent, they dont believe they have to? They said some Baptist believe that?

Can anyone shine some light on this for me?
I just want to understand this more clearly and get some different answers or input...
Please dont let this turn into a debate, just answers.. Thank you..

[bleechers]

Define "repent."

When Paul explains the gospel, he often does not mention repent. In fact, in the post-Acts epistles (written to Gentiles) I don't think repent is mentioned at all.

When we are born again by grace through faith, we are indued with a new nature. We are a "new creation" and that new creation does not sin. It groans in the old tabernacle of our corrupting flesh and looks for the new heavenly house of our resurrection body. While in this body, it is at war with the flesh.

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven..."

Paul is found groaning in his earthly body on a couple of ocassions.

The only requirement for becoming a new creation is that we "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" (Jn 5:24; Acts 16:31; Rom 4:4-5; Eph 2:8-9; etc.).

If you define "repent" as turning from unbelief or hope in self-effort to trusting in the merits of Christ alone, then yes we have to repent. :)

[arunma]

Someone told me today -- that people that believe in Eternal Salvation never repent, they dont believe they have to? They said some Baptist believe that?

WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I believe in eternal security, but I sin all the time, and I repent! Just because Saint Paul doesn't mention repentance often doesn't mean it isn't important. One Apostle can only cover so much, and he clearly had other doctrines to lay down for the church. I think Paul would have a very upset stomach if he were alive to read all this. But even Paul mentions repentance at least a few times. 2 Corinthians 7:10 says, "For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death." If we stop repenting of our sins, it will lead to death!

Even believers sin. I think we all agree that Saint Peter was a blood-washed believer, and Paul gives an example of Peter sinning. At Antioch, Peter displayed a racist attitude towards non-Jews (see Galatians 2:11, which says that Peter stood condemned). I think we all agree that such attitudes are sinful. And Paul would agree, because he had to correct Peter.

So what should we say? That Peter only became a believer at Antioch, when he repented? I don't think so. It seems clear to me that believers are still capable of sin. We're no better than the sinners of the world, we're just forgiven. As such, we should walk in Christ as we recieved him, and not go in the ways of the world. Don't you agree?

[DawnTillery]

Define "repent."

When Paul explains the gospel, he often does not mention repent. In fact, in the post-Acts epistles (written to Gentiles) I don't think repent is mentioned at all.

When we are born again by grace through faith, we are indued with a new nature. We are a "new creation" and that new creation does not sin. It groans in the old tabernacle of our corrupting flesh and looks for the new heavenly house of our resurrection body. While in this body, it is at war with the flesh.

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven..."

Paul is found groaning in his earthly body on a couple of ocassions.

The only requirement for becoming a new creation is that we "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" (Jn 5:24; Acts 16:31; Rom 4:4-5; Eph 2:8-9; etc.).

If you define "repent" as turning from unbelief or hope in self-effort to trusting in the merits of Christ alone, then yes we have to repent. :)

When I say Repent: I mean when we do things we arent supposed to, asking for forgiveness of those things and turn away from it.
Repent means to turn away. There is scripture in the bible that says repent
KJV NT has Repent 22 times
KJV NT has Repentance 25 times

[bleechers]

When I say Repent: I mean when we do things we arent supposed to, asking for forgiveness of those things and turn away from it.
Repent means to turn away. There is scripture in the bible that says repent

Oh certainly, I agree in that sense... but not to either gain or secure salvation.

KJV NT has Repent 22 times
KJV NT has Repentance 25 times

Context, context, context! ;)

[DawnTillery]

WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I believe in eternal security, but I sin all the time, and I repent! Just because Saint Paul doesn't mention repentance often doesn't mean it isn't important. One Apostle can only cover so much, and he clearly had other doctrines to lay down for the church. I think Paul would have a very upset stomach if he were alive to read all this. But even Paul mentions repentance at least a few times. 2 Corinthians 7:10 says, "For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death." If we stop repenting of our sins, it will lead to death!

Even believers sin. I think we all agree that Saint Peter was a blood-washed believer, and Paul gives an example of Peter sinning. At Antioch, Peter displayed a racist attitude towards non-Jews (see Galatians 2:11, which says that Peter stood condemned). I think we all agree that such attitudes are sinful. And Paul would agree, because he had to correct Peter.

So what should we say? That Peter only became a believer at Antioch, when he repented? I don't think so. It seems clear to me that believers are still capable of sin. We're no better than the sinners of the world, we're just forgiven. As such, we should walk in Christ as we recieved him, and not go in the ways of the world. Don't you agree?
Yes, I beleive we have ask for forgiveness, I even ask for forgiveness for things I may not understand are sins and for help leading me to learn and understand those things. I ask for the Holy Spirit to convict me so I can learn from that. The Bible clearly states we are all sinners.. To me Repentance is NOT a one time down on your knees deal. I was just curious as to why this person told me this..... I know my chruch doesnt believe that, I attend General Baptist.

[Ash014]

I do believe in eternal security, and I do repent.... That way God knows I am sorry when I fail, and since I am sinning all the time I repent everyday....

[arunma]

Yes, I beleive we have ask for forgiveness, I even ask for forgiveness for things I may not understand are sins and for help leading me to learn and understand those things. I ask for the Holy Spirit to convict me so I can learn from that. The Bible clearly states we are all sinners.. To me Repentance is NOT a one time down on your knees deal. I was just curious as to why this person told me this..... I know my chruch doesnt believe that, I attend General Baptist.

I fully agree with that.

[mesue]

... Someone told me today -- that people that believe in Eternal Salvation never repent, they dont believe they have to? They said some Baptist believe that?

Can anyone shine some light on this for me?
I just want to understand this more clearly and get some different answers or input...
Please dont let this turn into a debate, just answers.. Thank you..

Has this person given you a Book, Chapter, and Verse for this stance on this stance of no repentance?
To repent means to "Turn around" or "Turn away". When I repent of a sin I am turning away from it. How can a Bible believing Christian not repent?

[JPPT1974]

I do believe in eternal security, and I do repent.... That way God knows I am sorry when I fail, and since I am sinning all the time I repent everyday....

Me too when I sin and fall short of God's glory as I need to repent each and everytime!

[Singinman]

There are some Southern Baptists (I used to be one) who hold a view of eternal salvation that is incomprehensible to me. In its extreme form it goes something like this, once you are born again you are eternally saved even if you never darken the door of a church again, even if you never pray, even if you rape and kill and never repent you are still saved. This may be what your informant refers to.

Still we have the words of Hebrews 6:4-6

"For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once ben enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tated the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, since on their own they are crucifying agin the Son of God and are holding Him up to contempt.

It seems to me that those who fit the pattern of the extreme interpretation of the doctrine are in grave danger of "holding Him up to contempt."

[mesue]

There are some Southern Baptists (I used to be one) who hold a view of eternal salvation that is incomprehensible to me. In its extreme form it goes something like this, once you are born again you are eternally saved even if you never darken the door of a church again, even if you never pray, even if you rape and kill and never repent you are still saved...
So, you're saying that if I rape, or murder, I lose my salvation?
What if I stole a candy bar? Disrespected my mother? Lied?
These are sins as well. Will I lose my salvation for commiting these sins as well? After all, they are part of the top 10 laws (Of the 613).
All sin separates us from God, not just murder and rape. That's why we have need of a Savior, before and after we are saved. What, then, was finished when Jesus said "It is finished."?

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Names can only go into The Book of Life, they are not erased.

[JPPT1974]

Once you accept Christ as your Savior & Lord & repent of your sins and He comes into your heart and life, then your name is definately in the Book of Life never, ever to be erased whatsoever!

[Singinman]

What, then do we do with the book of Hebrews? Do we throw it out? The writer says those born again who fall way "crucify" Christ anew.

I agree that all sin separates us from God and that all sins, even rape and murder can be forgiven. I cited a generic summary of the doctrine of "eternal security" preached by some Southern Baptists.

The Hebrews passage however refers to deliberate willfull rebellion against God - a deliberate rejection of God's grace. In this case it seems to be addressed to believing Christians, born again Christians who are considering reverting or converting to Judaism to escape Roman persecution. This would be a deliberate rejection of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. The writer says, if you do this there is no turning back. These folks would become the worthless ground that is "burned over."

Heb 10:26 states it more plainly. "If we willfully persist in sin after having recieved the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins." Thus I cannot accept the idea that one having been saved can go back to a deliberate life of unrepentant sin and expect to enter the gates of heaven. Would I do this? No! Would you do this? No. Have some done this? I believe so. Are they saved? I believe not.

2 Peter 2:21 says of such people, "it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment that was passed on to them."

If there could be no possibility of deliberate rebellion or apostacy or rejection of grace, why would any scripture address the problem so? I believe the Bible addresses reality not impossible theories.

My take on eternal security is this. Those who remain in the knowlege of God's grace, who repent of their sins, who persevere in their faith have the "blessed assurance" of salvation. Please read me correctly. I am not talking about those who wander off the path for awhile when doubts and fears and grief prevail. I am talking about those who say to God words to the effect of "I accepted you at one time, but I would rather live in sin." If the words of 2 Peter are true, if the words of Hebrews are true, then these people have cut themselves off from salvation.

[mesue]

One needs to consider to whom the book of Hebrews was written, to the Hebrews. Peter is addressing the Jews, not Gentiles.

[Singinman]

One needs to consider to whom the book of Hebrews was written, to the Hebrews. Peter is addressing the Jews, not Gentiles.

Are we to assume then that Hebrews and 2 Peter do not apply to modern Christians of gentile descent? I do not believe this is the case. Apostacy, in the minds of the authors, is a real possibility for Jews and Gentiles in any age.

[mesue]

Are we to assume then that Hebrews and 2 Peter do not apply to modern Christians of gentile descent? I do not believe this is the case. Apostacy, in the minds of the authors, is a real possibility for Jews and Gentiles in any age.

In the words of a friend of mine, who got these words from someone else I'm sure; assume nothing.
We can learn from every book of the Bible, just don't forget the lesson to the target audience, so to speak.

[JPPT1974]

In the words of a friend of mine, who got these words from someone else I'm sure; assume nothing.
We can learn from every book of the Bible, just don't forget the lesson to the target audience, so to speak.

We sure can learn from every book and chapter of the Bible and apply them to our hearts and souls!