God's will to live or die?

[Ginny]

In light of the Terri Schiavo case, I would like to start a thread on God's will in our lives when our physical bodies are in a tragic state.

I do not have an opinion formed as of yet but I do have some possible conclusions....

** Is it our right as humans that are Christians to say at what point in our lives we wish to die if medical professionals declare that we can no longer function on our own without support?

** Or do we trust in God and miracles that He can bring us back to health no matter what the situation? (Lazarus)

There are so many things that I can think of in addition to those conclusions that may alter my decision...Perhaps we should trust God that He gave us doctors and medicine on this earth so that we might be made healthy again through those means? Perhaps we should trust in God that He can do anything with no help from medicine or doctors? But even if it is God's will that our physical bodies die, mere man can still keep us going artificially.

:confused:

[bleechers]

Our earthly tabernacle is extremely temporary. All of us, like Paul, should be graoning to enter into our resurrection bodies.

Take care of your house as best you can, but it has already been condemned and is slated for the dust. It is mortal and corruptible. That is the wonder and the hope of Christ's resurrection, He DIDN'T corrupt in the grave (HUGE VICTORY) and he rose again with a resurrection body (ANOTHER HUGE VICTORY).

That is our hope, let us groan to inhabit the new body that our new nature was created to inhabit!

[TwinCrier]

I think our will to live has great inportance in the length of our life. Many doctors will tell of patients who should have survived, but simply 'lost the will to live' while others that seemed destined for the grave appeared to be 'fighters' and make miraculous recoveries. If God micro-managed how long we live, there wouldn't be any reason for the commandment about Thou shalt not kill. Since I haven't seen anyone outliving Methesulah, I'd say our short life here is pretty precious and served a devine purpose.

[SonOfThunder]

In light of the Terri Schiavo case, I would like to start a thread on God's will in our lives when our physical bodies are in a tragic state.

I do not have an opinion formed as of yet but I do have some possible conclusions....

** Is it our right as humans that are Christians to say at what point in our lives we wish to die if medical professionals declare that we can no longer function on our own without support?

** Or do we trust in God and miracles that He can bring us back to health no matter what the situation? (Lazarus)

There are so many things that I can think of in addition to those conclusions that may alter my decision...Perhaps we should trust God that He gave us doctors and medicine on this earth so that we might be made healthy again through those means? Perhaps we should trust in God that He can do anything with no help from medicine or doctors? But even if it is God's will that our physical bodies die, mere man can still keep us going artificially.

:confused:


This is a two fold matter.

1. We have a Medical System set up by man that has evolved into what it is today.

We are marvelously and intricately made. And our God has given us knowledge and Medical skills to combat some of the sickness that comes.

This system is set up, so that anyone who has anything from internal sickness to broken bone to burns to horiffic road accidents present for treatment.

Doctors are under enormous pressure to treat fairly in a legal world. How do you discriminate because someone is 80 and not 18? Where do they draw the line? they can't.

There are things in place to allow us to sign a document so that in the event of a cardiac arrest for NO ACTIVE TREATMENT. But remember that they are there to care and preserve life, they work under pressure in a legal demanding world. They are not GOD, and have no power to decide on life and death (thank God). They preserve and help until God takes the last breath from the patient before them.

We are getting to a point where we can keep the body artificially going, Where machines are taking over from the medical profession.

This is a fine line.... I'm glad I'm not in that position of decision.

Very often man will shock all that the medical profession says by waking up after many many years of supposedly being brain dead. These stories must give hope to those that have a loved one in this position. A fine line isn't it?

Do we have rights to refuse medical intervention? I think so, if we dicide to rely on God for ALL HEALING THEN it's up to us if we present or not to the hospital.... I question if people don't present with an obvious broken bone or burns?


2. The Bible is clear on healing, All through The Bible we see evidence over and over that God heals our infirmities

ISA 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted

MAT 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses

MAT 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people

What is God's promise to us here?

EXO 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee

EXO 23:25 And ye shall serve the LORD your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee

What does our faith accomplish?

MARK 10:52 And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way

MAT 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you

What does God ask us to do?

JOHN 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you

So, does a Christian trust in God ONLY for healing?
Did God give us healers in the form of doctors?


This is up to you to ask God in prayer to guide you, read your Bible, be wise.


James

[DawnTillery]

I would not want to lay in a hospital bed or a nursing home as a vegetable.
IMO, How could I do Gods will that way? I don't think I can..
I don't want to be hooked up to any machines either.
would like some insight also. thanks

[bleechers]

We also have evidence that He doesn't always heal... case in point, the 6 billion or so of us who are going to die of something someday. ;)

Yes, he can heal (I'm just being cheeky), but the promises of healing are not to us.

[arunma]

I don't think God requires us to extend our lives by any means. If he did, then it would have been very ungodly for Saint Paul to march up to the gallows to give his life for his Lord. By the same logic, Stephen could have weaseled out of being stoned to death, merely by keeping quiet about his faith.

Now, one could argue that it's OK to die if it's for martyrdom. But then where do we draw the line? Can we give our lives for others? God gives us life as a gift. I don't think he expects us to live in "persistent vegetative states."

[ZiSunka]

In light of the Terri Schiavo case, I would like to start a thread on God's will in our lives when our physical bodies are in a tragic state.

I do not have an opinion formed as of yet but I do have some possible conclusions....

** Is it our right as humans that are Christians to say at what point in our lives we wish to die if medical professionals declare that we can no longer function on our own without support?

** Or do we trust in God and miracles that He can bring us back to health no matter what the situation? (Lazarus)

There are so many things that I can think of in addition to those conclusions that may alter my decision...Perhaps we should trust God that He gave us doctors and medicine on this earth so that we might be made healthy again through those means? Perhaps we should trust in God that He can do anything with no help from medicine or doctors? But even if it is God's will that our physical bodies die, mere man can still keep us going artificially.

:confused:

IN this day and age when machines and extraordinary medical procedures can keep a body alive long after the brain and other systems are dead, it is okay to prepare a Advance Healthcare Directive and Living Will, telling your loved ones your wishes concerning what should happen if you are permanently incapacitated or unable to communicate, or even substantially dead and being kept alive by machines.

God can and does heal people without using doctors or medicines of any kind. I've seen it myself, it does happen. But it is rare. For some reason, God chooses to extend the lives of some but allow others to die what seems an untimely death. But illness isn't the only way this happens. Who can explain why a car accident kills twelve people but leaves one person alive? Who can explain why food poisoning kills three but four others survive? God exerts his will through death as much as he exerts it through any other uncontrollable event in our lives.

God has numbered our days, even before we were born, and knows exactly when we should die. Some people hasten this though and choose to die eariler through suicide,drunk driving, playing with guns, and so on. It is never God's will for someone to die at their own hand or the hand of another, even if that other person is a doctor who is "assisting" with the suicide of a patient who wants it. There is nothing in the Bible that allows for killing someone to alleviate their suffering. Nothing. It instead recommends medicines (strong drink, wine, oils, etc, were medicines back then for pain and illness) to try to make the person well. But never does it allow using medicines to kill.

When we allow a disabled person to be starved to death, it sends the unmistakable message that we believe disabled people are unworthy of life and that humans are disposable when they are unable to speak for themselves or give an economic return on their time. Since Terri couldn't speak or work, she became a non-person, someone who was marginally human and unworthy of life, according to her "husband" and the courts that were influenced by his desire to kill his wife for economic and personal reasons. In my mind, those judges gave Shivao a license to murder his "wife" in the most cruel, unusual and painful way. They gave him leave to inflict more suffering on her than any human being deserves. We don't even execute our prisoners that way because it is too painful and horrible for civilized people to consider.

I will never be done being angry and sad that a disabled person was so cruelly murdered by my own government at the will of a man who wanted to through her away so he could marry another woman, his mistress of many years with whom he had two illegitimate children. Michael Shivao's heart was infested with evil intent. He wanted to get rid of Terri, but keep her money and spend it on another woman. In any other situation, he would be on trial for murder right now. It makes me sick to think that our government thinks of him as a heroic husband.

[Extirpated Wildlife]

I think through my studies that a lot of people who get sick and don't get better is due to lack of faith. Do I think God heals everyone? No, I don't believe that currently. I don't expect I will ever believe that, but stranger things have happened.

Faith has a lot to do with getting healed. I'm just not sure people are always really showing faith. I feel like Christians in the Baptist church have been sucked into a position because they fear that believing faith affects our lives is a pentecostal thing. Its not. Its a spirit thing.