No such thing as a free church

[romaneagle13]

You guys are my spiritual community now...I have had to quit my church. I have written them a letter explaining why I have to leave. Money is very tight--I cannot afford to give anymore. So I have left. I am still going to remain Anglican (I though about giving that up too because the rest of my family is still RC and they don't wholly agree with my decision to leave, but I decided to stay Episcopalian) I just won't practice communal worship because I can't afford the stewardship. So I shall rely on you and ask for your prayers. Hopefully someday I will be able to go back to church.

Thank you and God bless.

[Fish and Bread]

I think there is really a problem with a parish that puts so much pressure on people in terms of stewardship that parishioners feel they have to leave if they can no longer afford to contribute. It is a good and blessed thing to help a church out financially, but it is the Lord's House and he welcomes all of his children, even if they have nothing to give. There have been times where I haven't had much to contribute myself and have only been able to drop a dollar or two in the collection plate. I felt bad doing it, but at the same time, if one is out of money, one is out of money. God still wants you to be in relationship with him and to be in fellowship with his body. I'd strongly encourage you to keep going to church, even if you can only afford a small contribution, or nothing at all. If your parish gives you trouble, find another one.

God does not require a monetary contribution for worship. Jesus sent a very clear message about what he thought of such things when he went into the temple and started overturning the money changing tables. There is no price of admission to the house of God or his sacraments. It may be a bit embarassing to go to church and not be able to contribute, but God is asking you to go anyway. He wants you there. He said "eat my body and drink my blood", not "eat my body and drink my blood only if you can afford to contribute 10% to the building fund". It may be a cross to bear, but I think you will be blessed for continuing to attend church despite any embarassment you may suffer.

It actually really makes me angry that some churches are so money focused. It's not right. I'm sorry you have to deal with that sort of attitude from your parish. I once went to a Lutheran church that had an annual two-month tithing campaign. I was really aghast. I probably would have become Episcopalian and not Lutheran anyhow, but this was in the mists of my church search and I can't say it didn't have an impact on my decision that the local Lutheran church was so money focused. My Episcopalian parish barely makes mention of money, occasionally reminding people about pledge envelopes and such, but that's it -- and that's as it should be. We're not worshipping the God of money every week, but the God of Christ.

Besides, there are other ways to contribute to a parish. Why not offer to lector or something along those lines? I am sure your priest would understand if you had to contribute time and talent instead of money for a while. And, as I said, if he/she doesn't, I'd suggest finding a different place to worship -- even if it's not Episcopalian, quite frankly. Placing a monetary requirement on church membership is very far from the kingdom that Christ was trying to establish.

God doesn't want our money, he wants us. I actually generally wish they'd eliminate the collection from the liturgy -- I understand the liturgical purpose, but it comes off as tacking and commercial, and can have the effect of embarassing people who are poor, I don't think Christ would have approved.

John

[trooper]

So, did you leave because you think that you shouldn't attend if you can't give, or did someone at church suggest that to you? Or maybe I'm reading your note wrong all together.

I can assure you that I have been a member of a church where I couldn't only not give, but had to borrow money from the priest's discretionary fund to pay my gas bill. Being poor sucks, but as such you are still welcome (and especially welcome) in God's house.

[Lel]

Yes, I'm also curious -- why must you leave if you can no longer afford to give to them financially?

[AveMaria]

I hope and pray that no one suggested or hinted that you leave for financial reasons, or that you were unwelcome because you were unable to contribute financially to the church.

You're in my prayers. :crossrc:

[romaneagle13]

No has told me that I have to leave. But I am very embarassed by this situation. I knew you all might understand, though. When I first came into this church they were printing up the "proportionate giving charts" in the bulletin every week and reminding everyone to make a pledge. I understand why though--a church, like any organization, needs to be able to budget. They have to know how much to expect from people month by month. My church is small and I can't face being handed the collection plate and handing it right back without putting anything in it. I am just too ashamed. Others will see me and not understand--I don't dress in rags and drive a beat up 1970's stationwagon (although I don't wear designer digs and drive a Mercedes either). I haven't given up God, I just can't face the church.

[Inside Edge]

I was hoping this would never come up, because it really gets my goat and I can't pass up the opportunity to comment on this topic.

First, romaneagle13, you shouldn't stop attending because you can't afford to give regularly or give at all. I totally understand why you feel embarrassed, because I did for a long, long time (especially when my family attended the fundementalist churches in the past). However, I got over it, much the way Fish and Bread mentioned: if you can't, you can't, and that's all there is to it. God doesn't expect or demand it of us if we can't afford it - there's no financial cost of going to church, and no church should even come close to making it appear that way.

One of the churches in my diocese is high-pressure about financial giving (for an Anglican church, that is). It seemed like every second Sunday was a sermon about giving money, upping your donation, re-working your finances to make more room for the church, etc. Not a single newsletter went out without the message from the rector including some sort of "and don't forget to pull out your wallets" comment or reference. When one older parishioner died and left a very sizeable amount to the parish church, the announcement of her death/commentary on her life in the parish was at least 50% (and I'm being kind here) about the money she gave, things she donated, and that lucious lump-sum of cash she left in her will. The following Sunday's bulletin contained a written announcement of her passing, and about 30% of the text was droning on about the willed cash, and how this should serve all of us as a reminder not to leave the Church out of our wills. Yes, the last line was a quip, and the rector is a very humourous person; however, when it's laid on so thick like that, it's hard to take even a quip lightly. That parish does OK financially, but updates often indicate "not as well as it should be doing." It's in a low-income area, as well.

In contrast, another church I know well rarely, if ever, drones on or even brings up money. The rector feels strongly that "less is more" when it comes to prodding people for money and that if he does his job and provides spiritual building and a positive experience for his congregation, they will take care of the financial giving as best they can. And they do - with a smaller population in a similar financial demographic, that church does wonders financially.

So take heart and do not be made to feel embarrassed - the Church is there to bring you closer to God, not to shut you out when you run out of money. As my born and bred Italian father might say: What is this? The Roman Catholic Church? ;)

[Fish and Bread]

No has told me that I have to leave. But I am very embarassed by this situation. I knew you all might understand, though. When I first came into this church they were printing up the "proportionate giving charts" in the bulletin every week and reminding everyone to make a pledge. I understand why though--a church, like any organization, needs to be able to budget. They have to know how much to expect from people month by month. My church is small and I can't face being handed the collection plate and handing it right back without putting anything in it. I am just too ashamed. Others will see me and not understand--I don't dress in rags and drive a beat up 1970's stationwagon (although I don't wear designer digs and drive a Mercedes either). I haven't given up God, I just can't face the church.

I understand the pain you're going through and, quite frankly, I blame the parish. I feel as though many Christian communities have lost sight of where their values are supposed to be. Honestly, if my parish ever got to the point where it needed to make that aggressive of an effort to shake people down for funds, I'd rather it just close up shop. A church that abandons morality has no right to exist and should be replaced by one that can represent God better to the world.

If you truly can not stand the embarassment of remaining in your present community, I hope you'll consider seeking out another fellowship. You're a good Christian, of great value to any church you choose to join, and a Christian fellowship is an important part of the Christian life and thus of great value to you. I hope we can provide part of that fellowship for you here, but I'd strongly recommend you not give up on "in the flesh" fellowship completely -- it's an important part of many people's Christian journey. God wants us to be in community, whether we have money to give, time to give, talent to give, or nothing to give at all. Your presence increases the wholeness of the body and your absence diminishes the body's wholeness. Money is the least important part of being a Christian. Remember, the famous phrase that 'money is the root of much evil' comes straight from the bible. :)

John

[Lel]

Wasn't there something in the Bible about taking all possessions, dividing them up, and distributing among those that have need?

:(

[Zenaide]

You shouldnt be compelled to leave if you can't give. An act of giving, in you situation especailly, is trust in God that He will give back and honor your faithfull, but you shouldnt feel compelled to leave because you cant give. :(

[benedictine]

So, did you leave because you think that you shouldn't attend if you can't give, or did someone at church suggest that to you? Or maybe I'm reading your note wrong all together.

I can assure you that I have been a member of a church where I couldn't only not give, but had to borrow money from the priest's discretionary fund to pay my gas bill. Being poor sucks, but as such you are still welcome (and especially welcome) in God's house.


This is what my family is going to have to do, most likely. My Mom got over 300 dollars in tickets from a cop tonight, becouse we can't pay to fix the lights on the car, and becouse my father (who is a you know what) kept the proof of insurance. We pay $800+ a month in rent, becouse my dad left us in a house with no furnace, no insulation in the walls, and doesn't pay his child support.


My Mom works from 6am until 2:30 pm, so that she can be home in the evening with us. Yet, every time she stays and gets ovetime, or gets a bonus, she has to spend it immediently on either groceries, or a problem, like a doctor's appointment or something with the car. We really cannot pay to fix it. The driver's door is broken, and the window on the same door is jammed, the brake and turn lights don't work, and the window washer thingy doesn't work. One of the tires has a nail in it.


We don't give money to my church. Instead, we give time. I serve as ana colyte just about every sunday. I serve as a chalice bearer and I'm trained to take the sacrament to the ill. In a few Sundays, I will say the intercessions and lessons. In fact, I'll be there doing something at both services from 8:00 until after 12:00. I'm on the Children's Minisry Committiee and the Youth Ministry Committiee. I assist at Vacation Bible School and at "Wonderful Wednesdays", a program for the elementary age kids. I was asked to help at Sunday School if I was needed. The director of the Pre-School even created a job position, so that I could have a job. That is something I am very grateful for.

My Mom is a Sunday School Teacher, is on the Children's Ministry Committiee, and has been a chaperone at EYC.

I offer what I have, and it gives me valuble expierence as a minister, which will assist me when I am a priest. The problem with that, is that I don't know how I'm going to pay for Seminary, much less College.

I guess what I'm trying to tell you, Roman Eagle, is that you can offer to your church something. That's why it's called the offeretory, and not the collection, as it is in many churches.

Trooper, you're exactly right.

[Albion]

No has told me that I have to leave. But I am very embarassed by this situation. I knew you all might understand, though. When I first came into this church they were printing up the "proportionate giving charts" in the bulletin every week and reminding everyone to make a pledge. I understand why though--a church, like any organization, needs to be able to budget. They have to know how much to expect from people month by month. My church is small and I can't face being handed the collection plate and handing it right back without putting anything in it. I am just too ashamed. Others will see me and not understand--I don't dress in rags and drive a beat up 1970's stationwagon (although I don't wear designer digs and drive a Mercedes either). I haven't given up God, I just can't face the church.

I don't know how you stand on the issues that divide the church, but in your city there is at least one Reformed Episcopal Church and one Episcopal Missionary Church parish. I can't imagine either of them functioning like that, and both would be pleased to welcome you, I'm sure.

[gtsecc]

I know my Priests have purposely kept themselves out of the loop so they don't knwo who gives what to the church

[masuwerte]

You guys are my spiritual community now...I have had to quit my church. I have written them a letter explaining why I have to leave. Money is very tight--I cannot afford to give anymore. So I have left. I am still going to remain Anglican (I though about giving that up too because the rest of my family is still RC and they don't wholly agree with my decision to leave, but I decided to stay Episcopalian) I just won't practice communal worship because I can't afford the stewardship. So I shall rely on you and ask for your prayers. Hopefully someday I will be able to go back to church.

Thank you and God bless.

When I was in a similar situation a few years back, feeling guilty that I was accepting a free ride while others supported the parish financially, a parishoner suggested that I donate blood to the Red Cross, if able. Or, maybe you could volunteer to do some chores around the church, or for a homebound parishoner. That kind of donation is priceless.

[SeenAndUnseen]

Please don't leave your parish over this. I know it seems insurmountable, but can I share a quick story? (Of course I can. Captive audience now, hm...)
About ten years ago, not long after I'd joined a parish and during a time in which I worked a fairly high-profile job in local government, I'd been dropping whatever dollars I could into the collection plate for many months when, one Sunday, I resolved to write a check instead. I thought I would do this from now on, to sort of make it known what I was giving, and that I was giving.
Well, that first check I tried to give them BOUNCED! hahahahaa, oh I was so morbidly ashamed. Something had been drafted out of my account that I wasn't ready for and it all happened at just the wrong time. I thought of just never going back because I couldn't face my parish -- but I did go back and I never wrote them another check again. To this day, I drop what cash I can into the collection plate, very anonymously. Sometimes it is a decent contribution, and sometimes it's just what little I can manage. It's nobody's business but mine and God's, I say.

[romaneagle13]

I have read your posts and discussed the matter with my husband. He said that I should go back to church in the fall and resume singing in the choir. My church also is now asking for parishioners to come and help clean the church on Saturday mornings and help with gardening. I can do that. But the only thing I have not worked out yet is how to handle the pledge issue and the collection plate. When I sing in the choir, we are not handed the collection plate so I can avoid it there. But I can't avoid it during the summer because the choir doesn't sing during that time, so I think I'll go back in the fall. But what do I do about the pledge? Just not pay it? Or should I send the letter to the church explaining that I cannot meet it? (When I was Catholic we never had to pledge, you just put money in the plate) So I am not sure how to handle this situation. This is really embarrassing...

[benedictine]

talk to: husband, priest, GOD.

[Lel]

Forgive me, but what is a pledge? Is it like a tithe bill or something?

[ps139]

My guess, lel, is that it's an estimate of how much you can donate to the parish in a given amount of time. I don't really know, but I guess it would be useful for the parish to estimate how much they might be taking in.

Romaneagle, I will keep your in my prayers. Maybe finding a church that doesn't care so much about money is a better idea? About 5 years ago I left the church I'd been going to since I was 8, and started going to this different one in the next town (and state!, I'm close to the border) over. The first one was getting all wishy-washy with the preaching, and I just wasn't "feeling it" there anymore. So I changed churches to a place that livened my soul and gave me a real worship experience. And it was worth it. Just a thought.

[pmcleanj]

Pledges are just that -- promises to contribute so much at such and such intervals. It's ubiquitous in the Anglican churches I've attended, and our Lutheran church does it too. There's an annual stewardship campaign, where the campaign ministers come around with little pledge cards for you to fill out. It's just what charitable organizations do when they call you during the supper hour and ask you to "pledge" a donation, or what PBS does during their phone-in, where they ask you to "pledge" some dollar amount. It gives the church a baseline to budget against. It also gives lets people with $100k incomes say "We'll give $100 a week" which sounds and lookes really good, without challenging them to examine the proportionality of that offer.

I detest the practice. When the campaign minister comes around each year I say "I don't pledge. Would you like a cup of tea?" and then we have tea and they leave (they don't send stupid or insensitive ministers to visit me. Or maybe they draw straws and the loser gets me, and they're just looking for a chance to bolt as soon as possible while being able to say they tried...) If they do press me, we do a bible study together:James 4:12-16

After doing this for a decade or so, one of the campaign organizers called me up one year and asked whether I would campaign for them that year. After a moment of stunned silence I said "Actually, I don't pledge. I believe it violates scripture. If you like, however, I will happily visit people and describe to them the blessings associated with tithing. They didn't take me up on the offer. I suspected that was because the person who called me was from the Chartered-Accountants-and-Professional-Partners-only club that dominated vestry in that particular congregation -- and they didn't want the disruptive influence of someone suggesting a standard like tithing which might require that they reexamine the appropriateness of that $100-a-week offering they felt so good about.

I recommend the same approach, romaneagle, to you. Tithe doesn't have to be 10%. People who live near the poverty line spend nearly all their income on necessities, so a tithe of 10% means you are giving almost 10% of what you need to live. For people who live well above the poverty line spend and inconsequential portion of their income on necessities, so a tithe of 10% means an almost 10% reduction in luxuries. Have a look at your budget, and choose a percentage tithe that you can commit to to yourself and God without resenting it. God does not want begrudging gifts. Put the money in an envelope and put the envelope in the plate, so no-one knows how much is in it or who gave it. Keep the same percentage over a few years, and by God's grace you may find

a) that the amount is larger than it used to be, and that will help you notice and appreciate how God has blessed you; and

b) that you want to give a larger percentage, and that God has given you the means to do so; and

c) that you feel satisfied about what you are giving, not pressured, because you are giving what God has called you to give -- not what you were pressured into.

[svdbygrace]

:thumbsup: :)

Pledges are just that -- promises to contribute so much at such and such intervals. It's ubiquitous in the Anglican churches I've attended, and our Lutheran church does it too. There's an annual stewardship campaign, where the campaign ministers come around with little pledge cards for you to fill out. It's just what charitable organizations do when they call you during the supper hour and ask you to "pledge" a donation, or what PBS does during their phone-in, where they ask you to "pledge" some dollar amount. It gives the church a baseline to budget against. It also gives lets people with $100k incomes say "We'll give $100 a week" which sounds and lookes really good, without challenging them to examine the proportionality of that offer.

I detest the practice. When the campaign minister comes around each year I say "I don't pledge. Would you like a cup of tea?" and then we have tea and they leave (they don't send stupid or insensitive ministers to visit me. Or maybe they draw straws and the loser gets me, and they're just looking for a chance to bolt as soon as possible while being able to say they tried...) If they do press me, we do a bible study together:James 4:12-1612 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another? 13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: 14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. 16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.

After doing this for a decade or so, one of the campaign organizers called me up one year and asked whether I would campaign for them that year. After a moment of stunned silence I said "Actually, I don't pledge. I believe it violates scripture. If you like, however, I will happily visit people and describe to them the blessings associated with tithing. They didn't take me up on the offer. I suspected that was because the person who called me was from the Chartered-Accountants-and-Professional-Partners-only club that dominated vestry in that particular congregation -- and they didn't want the disruptive influence of someone suggesting a standard like tithing which might require that they reexamine the appropriateness of that $100-a-week offering they felt so good about.

I recommend the same approach, romaneagle, to you. Tithe doesn't have to be 10%. People who live near the poverty line spend nearly all their income on necessities, so a tithe of 10% means you are giving almost 10% of what you need to live. For people who live well above the poverty line spend and inconsequential portion of their income on necessities, so a tithe of 10% means an almost 10% reduction in luxuries. Have a look at your budget, and choose a percentage tithe that you can commit to to yourself and God without resenting it. God does not want begrudging gifts. Put the money in an envelope and put the envelope in the plate, so no-one knows how much is in it or who gave it. Keep the same percentage over a few years, and by God's grace you may find

a) that the amount is larger than it used to be, and that will help you notice and appreciate how God has blessed you; and

b) that you want to give a larger percentage, and that God has given you the means to do so; and

c) that you feel satisfied about what you are giving, not pressured, because you are giving what God has called you to give -- not what you were pressured into.

[AveMaria]

Picking up on the topic of pledging and tithing and such, I'm currently in a financial situation where I cannot give anywhere near as much to the church as I 'should' be. I'm still paying off some massive medical bills that happened when I was between jobs and without insurance and a few other expenses that most people don't know about.

I was honest with my clergy and the church treasurer come stewardship campaign time, and one of them pointed out quite graciously that giving of time and energy is a form of pledging, too. And I'm more than willing to do the unpleasant jobs that involve things like showing up at 5 am to cook and serve for a prayer breakfast.

[trooper]

this is really important.

First, I'm in a leadership position in my church now and pay attention to stuff like weekly plate collections. We have some people who write a big check at the beginning of the year to cover their pledge, and then don't drop a thing in the plate until the next year. So, whether you are making a Sunday drop or not shouldn't tell your fellow parishoners a thing about what you are giving. Let it pass you by, no guilt. I am still realtively poor, but I give when I get paid (which isn't consistent). So, one week I give 50$ and then won't give anything for the next four.\


Second, and this speaks well of my church, everyone on my vestry knows that I don't give much, and no one thinks that this prohibits me from acting as a leader to the church. Furthermore, my priest has a firm policy not to know anything about individual giving, so he is not in a position to play favorites or not favorites in church polity.

Finally, and most importantly, you have got to consider your status as an important ministry in your Church. You represent all the other "the rent's due, the gas bill is late, and we're tired of eater hamburger helper without the hamburger" type people in the world. You (we) are the people that Jesus spoke about and you need to be reminding the Church of this every day. I pray that you can move beyond your pride and speak about the abundant joy that God gives to those without material means.

God Bless You always,
And as a sign of hope, I almost always have hamburger to put in the helper now,

Leslie