PDA

View Full Version : Episcopal-Lutheran Agreement Going Strong


Fish and Bread
16th June 2005, 03:13 PM
Episcopal-Lutheran Agreement Going Strong (http://www.livingchurch.org/publishertlc/viewarticle.asp?ID=1071)
06/16/2005


Despite some initial concerns after the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) unilaterally inserted an exception for conscience into the Called to Common Mission agreement, the Presiding Bishop’s deputy for ecumenical and interfaith relations said recently that he is pleased with the way things are progressing.

“There are a lot of good partnerships developing around the country,” the Rt. Rev. C. Christopher Epting told The Living Church. “Lutheran and Episcopal congregations are sharing worship space and in some cases priests. In Mississippi, the Lutherans and Episcopalians merged their social service agencies last year.”

Five years after the agreement on full communion was implemented by the two churches, less than 1 percent of all Lutheran ordinations to the priesthood have been done irregularly, and pastors who have been ordained by other Lutheran pastors are not transferable to the Episcopal Church, Bishop Epting said. Furthermore, all of the ELCA bishops ordained since the CCM agreement have received the laying on of hands by at least three other bishops. They now constitute more than half the ELCA House of Bishops, according to Bishop Epting, who said he meets twice a year with his ELCA counterpart to review new developments.

END ARTICLE

My question is: Does "Furthermore, all of the ELCA bishops ordained since the CCM agreement have received the laying on of hands by at least three other bishops. They now constitute more than half the ELCA House of Bishops, according to Bishop Epting, who said he meets twice a year with his ELCA counterpart to review new developments." mean that Anglican bishops participated in those consecrations and that more than half of the ECLA House of Bishops now has the historic epsicopate? It seems notable that they didn't state whether or not the terms of CCM were adhered to in those consecrations beyond the one specification of the number of bishops required.

John

IowaLutheran
17th June 2005, 11:15 AM
This is what I have heard (take it with a grain of salt, I don't remember the source): The only time the presence of an Anglican/Episcopal bishop is mandated under CCM is at the installation of the ELCA presiding bishop. Anglican/Episcopal presence is not required under CCM if the bishops doing the laying on of hands are in the historic episcopate. For example, the bishops could be from the Church of Sweden or other ELCA bishops installed since CCM. Anglican/Episcopal bishops could be present due to friendships/convenience, but it is not mandatory.

Fish and Bread
17th June 2005, 11:23 AM
This is what I have heard (take it with a grain of salt, I don't remember the source): The only time the presence of an Anglican/Episcopal bishop is mandated under CCM is at the installation of the ELCA presiding bishop. Anglican/Episcopal presence is not required under CCM if the bishops doing the laying on of hands are in the historic episcopate. For example, the bishops could be from the Church of Sweden or other ELCA bishops installed since CCM. Anglican/Episcopal bishops could be present due to friendships/convenience, but it is not mandatory.

I think you may well be correct, but it still begs the question as to whether there were bishops within the historic episcopate (Of any denomination) present at each of these consecrations. It seems like an odd thing not to specify, given that it was an important component of the CCM agreement.

John

IowaLutheran
17th June 2005, 11:50 AM
I think you may well be correct, but it still begs the question as to whether there were bishops within the historic episcopate (Of any denomination) present at each of these consecrations. It seems like an odd thing not to specify, given that it was an important component of the CCM agreement.

John


Here is the ELCA pledge from CCM:

"In order to receive the historic episcopate, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America pledges that, following the adoption of this Concordat and in keeping with the collegiality and continuity of ordained ministry attested as early as Canon 4 of the First Ecumenical Council (Nicaea I, a.d. 325), at least three bishops already sharing in the sign of the episcopal succession will be invited to participate in the installation of its next Presiding Bishop through prayer for the gift of the Holy Spirit and with the laying-on-of-hands. These participating bishops will be invited from churches of the Lutheran communion which share in the historic episcopate. In addition, a bishop or bishops will be invited from The Episcopal Church to participate in the same way as a symbol of the full communion now shared. Synodical bishops elected and awaiting installation may be similarly installed at the same service, if they wish. Further, all other installations of bishops in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America will be through prayer for the gift of the Holy Spirit and with the laying-on-of-hands by other bishops, at least three of whom are to be in the historic succession (see paragraph 12 above). Its liturgical rites will reflect these provisions."


I am sure that the departments for ecumenical affairs from both the ELCA and ECUSA have closely monitored all installations since CCM so if there was a problem, somebody would have cried foul.

Fish and Bread
17th June 2005, 11:54 AM
Thanks for the elaboration, Iowa. Are you going to be participating in our fall bible study? We'd love to have you. More details are available on our "Bible in 90 Days" thread.

John

Albion
17th June 2005, 02:25 PM
Episcopal-Lutheran Agreement Going Strong (http://www.livingchurch.org/publishertlc/viewarticle.asp?ID=1071)
06/16/2005

As I read the words, it seems evident to me (especially considering the source) that bishops means ECUSA bishops, perhaps with a small possibility of a few being from other churches in communion with ECUSA. If you're wondering if they could be Methodist bishops or bishops from Lutheran churches not having Apostolic Succession, I just can't imagine that this would either be the case or that the report wouldn't specify if that were the case. It wouldn't be carrying out the idea behind the article, for one thing.