"The law nailing it to the cross."

[Torah]

Col 2: 14
having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

"written code [the law]"... "he took it away, nailing it to the cross."
have You heard this one befor"?

or this one?

Rom 6: 14-18
14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

and this one.

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
:)

[Zacharias]

Revised Standard Version
having canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross.


New American Standard Bible
having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.


New Living Translation
He canceled the record that contained the charges against us. He took it and destroyed it by nailing it to Christ's cross.


Complete Jewish Bible
He wiped away the bill of charges against us. Because of the regulations, it stood as a testimony against us; but he removed it by nailing it to the execution-stake.

[Zacharias]

Rom 6: 14-18
14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
The law can't condemn us because of HaShem's grace. :)

At first if one sinned the law would condemn him.
Now if one sinned and the law condemned him, HaShem's grace would save him.


However that doesn't make it right to sin.

[Torah]

Very good Freak4JC. :thumbsup:

[Shimshon]

The law can't condemn us because of HaShem's grace. :)

At first if one sinned the law would condemn him.
Now if one sinned and the law condemned him, HaShem's grace would save him.


However that doesn't make it right to sin.

So nobody was saved before Yeshua came? Does not the righteous live his life by faith? Is it not impossible to please God unless you have faith?

Are you thinking that all those who died before Yeshua were "condemned without grace"? And if not. How were they 'saved'......David, Shlomo, Moshe?

[Zacharias]

Are you thinking that all those who died before Yeshua were "condemned without grace"? And if not. How were they 'saved'......David, Shlomo, Moshe?
G-d may give grace to whoever He wishes to give grace (I do believe that David, Shlomo, Moshe ect, went to heaven). As the Eatern Orthodox say, "It's a mystery". :)

We do know that:
1 Peter 3:19-22
[Christ] went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him. (RSV)

Romans 4:3
For what does the scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness." (RSV)

Who can know the ways of HaShem? :)

[Shimshon]

Yes, to the veiled I bet it is a mystery......

As we also know that:
2 Corinthians 3:12-18 12 Therefore, with a hope like this, we are very open - 13 unlike Moshe, who put a veil over his face, so that the people of Isra'el would not see the fading brightness come to an end. 14 What is more, their minds were made stonelike; for to this day the same veil remains over them when they read the Old Covenant; it has not been unveiled, because only by the Messiah is the veil taken away. 15 Yes, till today, whenever Moshe is read, a veil lies over their heart. 16 "But," says the Torah, "whenever someone turns to ADONAI, the veil is taken away."a 17 Now, "ADONAI" in this text means the Spirit. And where the Spirit of ADONAI is, there is freedom. 18 So all of us, with faces unveiled, see as in a mirror the glory of the Lord; and we are being changed into his very image, from one degree of glory to the next, by ADONAI the Spirit.

[Zacharias]

Yes, to the veiled I bet it is a mystery......

As we also know that:
2 Corinthians 3:12-18 12 Therefore, with a hope like this, we are very open - 13 unlike Moshe, who put a veil over his face, so that the people of Isra'el would not see the fading brightness come to an end. 14 What is more, their minds were made stonelike; for to this day the same veil remains over them when they read the Old Covenant; it has not been unveiled, because only by the Messiah is the veil taken away. 15 Yes, till today, whenever Moshe is read, a veil lies over their heart. 16 "But," says the Torah, "whenever someone turns to ADONAI, the veil is taken away."a 17 Now, "ADONAI" in this text means the Spirit. And where the Spirit of ADONAI is, there is freedom. 18 So all of us, with faces unveiled, see as in a mirror the glory of the Lord; and we are being changed into his very image, from one degree of glory to the next, by ADONAI the Spirit.

Honestly I didn't mean to offend anyone with my post. Perhaps you could explain how you view "Colossians 2:14" to us. :)

[Shimshon]

Who can know the ways of HaShem? :)Yochanan 14:6 Yeshua said, "I AM the Way -- and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except through me. 7 Because you have known me, you will also know my Father; from now on, you do know him -- in fact, you have seen him."

[Zacharias]

Yochanan 14:6 Yeshua said, "I AM the Way -- and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except through me. 7 Because you have known me, you will also know my Father; from now on, you do know him -- in fact, you have seen him."
Like I said... Honestly I didn't mean to offend anyone with my post. Perhaps you could explain how you view "Colossians 2:14" to us. :)

We can know HaShem and still not completely know his ways. I doubt even the Apostles knew that the anti-messianic murderer Sha'ul was going to be a great missionary.

Anyway I am not going to start debating. I do not "know it all" and I doubt anyone will until Yeshua comes back. :)

[Shimshon]

Honestly I didn't mean to offend anyone with my post. Perhaps you could explain how you view "Colossians 2:14" to us. :)Who's offended? I sure am not. I love talking about the Truth. It's what I live for. To witness the Truth of God. I'm just commenting to you about your comments.....is this not what we are here for?:)

The curse is dealt with "Sin". The atonement was made, the blood was shed. All before this 'advent' knew personally the Spirit of God and had complete faith that he would do what he said and come himself and atone personally for sins, and personally be our King.

And so transforming the priesthood and the Torah into the image that he had promised it would be.


He wiped away the curse, sin and death. Leaving the blessing, eternal life.

[Zacharias]

Who's offended? I sure am not. I love talking about the Truth. It's what I live for. To witness the Truth of God. I'm just commenting to you about your comments.....is this not what we are here for?:)

The curse is dealt with "Sin". The atonement was made, the blood was shed. All before this 'advent' knew personally the Spirit of God and had complete faith that he would do what he said and come himself and atone personally for sins, and personally be our King.

And so transforming the priesthood and the Torah into the image that he had promised it would be.


He wiped away the curse, sin and death. Leaving the blessing, eternal life.

Good post. :)

[Shimshon]

Anyway I am not going to start debating. I do not "know it all" and I doubt anyone will until Yeshua comes back. :)So, you post information to the public in which you are not sure of?

Please....Please. try not to take this offensively. I just don't see the logic in saying something to someone and then back up your statement by saying, 'well we really can't know anyway, it's a mystery'.

You made a statement. I expected you to have a conviction on it since it came from your mouth and hence your heart.

I happen to disagree with it. No biggy, i'm not offended that you stated your position. Why would you be defensive about mine?

Can I :) any more to you? :) lol

Honestly, I just thought i'd present another persons position. Since mine differs. It's not ment to be an offense.

[Zacharias]

So, you post information to the public in which you are not sure of?
Actually I was sure. :)

Honestly, I just thought i'd present another persons position. Since mine differs. It's not ment to be an offense.
I'm sorry. :blush: I'm used to people reacting that way on the Anglican board.

[Shimshon]

Actually I was sure. :)

I'm sorry. :blush: I'm used to people reacting that way on the Anglican board.No problem F4JC, no love lost. :)

So, you say you were sure, but of what?

Maybe we can get back to the point. :)

You stated;


At first if one sinned the law would condemn him.
Now if one sinned and the law condemned him, HaShem's grace would save him.



This to me implies that those before Yeshua were not saved.

I asked if you agreed with that or not. Also if you didn't, then how do you believe the 'faithful' host before Yeshua's first coming were 'saved'?

You responded "it's a mystery" , "who knows the ways of HaShem". To me this says you don't know. (PALEASE!!! no offense meant :) )

[Zacharias]

No problem F4JC, no love lost. :)

So, you say you were sure, but of what?

Maybe we can get back to the point. :)

You stated;



This to me implies that those before Yeshua were not saved.

I asked if you agreed with that or not. Also if you didn't, then how do you believe the 'faithful' host before Yeshua's first coming were 'saved'?

You responded "it's a mystery" , "who knows the ways of HaShem". To me this says you don't know. (PALEASE!!! no offense meant :) )

I believe that some are saved by faith:
Romans 4:3
For what does the scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness." (RSV)

and others were saved after death:
1 Peter 3:19-22
[Christ] went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him. (RSV)

[Shimshon]

I believe that some are saved by faith:
Romans 4:3
For what does the scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness." (RSV)

and others were saved after death:
1 Peter 3:19-22
[Christ] went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him. (RSV)

Yet, 1 peter states he went and 'preached' to those who were 'DISOBIEDIENT'. For one, he only preached to them. Faith comes by hearing the word, but it can be rejected. Meaning, just because it was Yeshua preaching to them does not mean they all 'recieved' his message and were saved. Just because he 'preached' to them. Secondly, as i've pointed out, he was preaching to the 'disobiedient'. Those who did NOT formerly obey him. Not those who did. Or again are you thinking that not one person obeyed God before Yeshua came?

I guess the main point is. This position means that all those who lived before Yeshua did not obey God at all and were held in prison.

It implies that there was no faith to save before Yeshua. That before Yeshua was incarnated Grace was not possible. And all Yisrael, all the world was disobiedient to God. If that were true, and all the world rejected God's words, how did ANY come from that generation? Of which lived the likes of Yochanan. A levi. Are you aware that the "Elijah" that was to come and prepare the way, was a LEVI? He immersed the Cohen Hagadol into his authority. As per God's instructions.

I would submit to you that all were saved by faith through grace since the beginning. Only now this faith is no longer ONLY given to Yisrael for the world to come to. But it has now been given to the world. God has scattered Yisrael whom he gave this blessing to, to the whole earth. And he is drawing all his children back to him. The fulfillment of the promise. Torah

[Zacharias]

Yet, 1 peter states he went and 'preached' to those who were 'DISOBIEDIENT'. For one, he only preached to them. Faith comes by hearing the word, but it can be rejected. Meaning, just because it was Yeshua preaching to them does not mean they all 'recieved' his message and were saved. Just because he 'preached' to them. Secondly, as i've pointed out, he was preaching to the 'disobiedient'. Those who did NOT formerly obey him. Not those who did. Or again are you thinking that not one person obeyed God before Yeshua came?

I guess the main point is. This position means that all those who lived before Yeshua did not obey God at all and were held in prison.

I believe that Moshe, David, and all that obeyed HaShem were saved by faith. And that "some" of the disobedient in prison accepted Yeshua's message and were saved (I didn't mean to imply that "all" accepted His message).

I would submit to you that all were saved by faith through grace since the beginning. Only now this faith is no longer ONLY given to Yisrael for the world to come to. But it has now been given to the world. God has scattered Yisrael whom he gave this blessing to, to the whole earth. And he is drawing all his children back to him. The fulfillment of the promise. Torah

Does that mean that you belive that non-Messianic Jews who obey HaShem will be saved?

[Shimshon]

I believe that Moshe, David, and all that obeyed HaShem were saved by faith.

I agree

And that "some" of the disobedient in prison accepted Yeshua's message and were saved (I didn't mean to imply that "all" accepted His message).

But, this is not written. He never said this would be the case. Yeshua decending into hell and releasing captives is a Catholic doctrine. Not provable by scripture or by the Spirit of Truth.



Does that mean that you belive that non-Messianic Jews who obey HaShem will be saved?

Nope, not my bag of tea. I believe only one way to Abba, Faith in Yeshua. The salvation of God. :)

[Ahavah]

Hey Freak4...either I'm blind or just need glasses, but could you possibly make your font a bit bigger. It sure is hard to read. Thanks:thumbsup: http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_37.gif

[Zacharias]

Nope, not my bag of tea. I believe only one way to Abba, Faith in Yeshua. The salvation of God. :)
Same here! :thumbsup:

[ShirChadash]

Col 2: 14
having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

"written code [the law]"... "he took it away, nailing it to the cross."
have You heard this one befor"?

or this one?

Rom 6: 14-18
14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

and this one.

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
:)

One thing that helped me was in reading that the NT Gk word nomos was used in the NT to refer to many kinds of law -- not only G-d's Law of life, but also the law of sin and death, etc. It's a general term, and a poor one at that, that the Gk used to translate the word Torah, which would have been better rendered as a positive term along the lines of teaching, instruction etc. Also, the Gk concept of law was extremely negative -- always... ANY kind of law had a negative connotation to it for the Greeks. I am quite sure that the concepts of the general populace had an impact on how the apostles reached them with the Truth, and also had an impact on how the NT is written and phrased in many such things.

There is, therefore, now NO condemnation for those in Messiah Y'shua -- and I see this as meaning even those who choose to follow the work of the Torah out of love for the Abba Who gave it. As I see it, those who try in this life to conform their outward expression of their love for, and faith in Abba through Y'shua, by living according to what they can of the written Torah... they are no more condemned than those who see only one law that is non-explicit in how it should be lived-out (love neighbor as self), or only nine suggestions (with the tenth commandment being negated some and hyper-spiritualized, or altogether nullified for most believers), etc.

A pastor here gave a sermon recently on "doubting Thomas" that blew my hair back. And he was so spot-on with all of it -- he's a very accomplished apologist. Through the course of his sermon, I began to see a larger picture and the greater import of, "there is no condemnation for one in Messiah Y'shua". Thomas doubted the others' word to him that Messiah had arisen and appeared until Y'shua came through the door and bid him thrust his hand into His side, and probe the wounds on His hands. We readers of the Word often cluck our tongues and see him as an example of faithlessness and unbelieving/untrusting and our hearts effectively condemn him in some small ways, or entirely for some people. And yet there was no condemnation of him by Messiah -- Thomas was being just as faithful and just as "good a Jew" and just as "good a believer" as the others, in wanting to see for himself and having an intellect and a discernment that needed to be satisfied as well as his heart's cry... and Y'shua had no condemnation for him.

There are some things I suppose I "get". And there are other things I am sure I simply do not yet "get" and may never, in this life, unless G-d beats me over the head with it, so-to-speak. I am not condemned anymore than anyone else is, who also "gets" and doesn't all manner of the things of G-d.

Anyway, I digress...for my general thoughts on this general topic ;) , you could look at this thread if you are interested.

http://www.christianforums.com/t1092381-we-die-to-the-law-of-sin-and-death.html

As in all things around here, some others will not agree with my views, but what's new. ;) :hug:

Abba bless,
~Z~

[Shimshon]

I would submit to you that all were saved by faith through grace since the beginning. Only now this faith is no longer ONLY given to Yisrael for the world to come to. But it has now been given to the world. God has scattered Yisrael whom he gave this blessing to, to the whole earth. And he is drawing all his children back to him. The fulfillment of the promise. Torah
Does that mean that you belive that non-Messianic Jews who obey HaShem will be saved? Maybe I should clarify. All 'who were saved' were saved by Grace through Faith. "ALL" will not be saved. I do not believe every man ever born will be saved. I do believe however that all who were saved before Yeshua came were saved the same way we are. Only now this salvation is offered to the world via our being scattered into it. Before the world had to come to Yisrael, become part of the physical nation of Yisrael to be 'under her covenant'. Now Yeshua has taken his covenant in which he gave Yisrael, that 'the righteous will live by faith' and has scattered Yisrael and his covenant into all nations. Giving it in this way to the world. But the covenant was transformed in doing so. As was fortold.

31 "Here, the days are coming," says ADONAI, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Isra'el and with the house of Y'hudah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers on the day I took them by their hand and brought them out of the land of Egypt; because they, for their part, violated my covenant, even though I, for my part, was a husband to them," says ADONAI. 33 "For this is the covenant I will make with the house of Isra'el after those days," says ADONAI: "I will put my Torah within them and write it on their hearts; I will be their God, and they will be my people.

Whats the difference between the two? Many here would tell you ...nada. But God said; it would not be like the covenant I made with their fathers at mt sinai. Was it to be a 'different Torah'? No, Torah is NOT only commands, it's promises, not only mitzvot, but covenants as well.

It states he would put his Torah 'within them and write it on their hearts'.

See, before he took his Torah (commands and promises) and placed them on physical tablets, in a physical box, in a physical Temple, served and administered by physical people, who live in a physical land called Yisrael.

But he promised (covenant) that he would take the commands and promises he place in this way, and 'TRANSFORM' it to an INWARD way of being. Now his laws and promises are written within us. As we are the Temple of God, living writtings as proof of our rebirth, transtormation.

The term 'nailed to the cross' was used by Shaul and has been misunderstood by many as they do the rest of the scriptures.

But you, dear friends, since you know this in advance, guard yourselves; so that you will not be led away by the errors of the wicked and fall from your own secure position. 18 And keep growing in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Deliverer, Yeshua the Messiah. To him be the glory, both now and forever! Amen.

[Hedgehog]

Complete Jewish Bible
Because of the regulations, it stood as a testimony against us; but he removed it by nailing it to the execution-stake.

Does this "testimony against us" part have to do with the sacrifices they(Israel) did?And the removing of temple services(and animal sacrifice) remove the tesimony against them/us?



1Ki 17:18 And she said unto Elijah, What have I to do with thee, O thou man of God? art thou come unto me to call my sin to remembrance, and to slay my son?

Isa 57:8 Behind the doors also and the posts hast thou set up thy remembrance: for thou hast discovered [thyself to another] than me, and art gone up; thou hast enlarged thy bed, and made thee [a covenant] with them; thou lovedst their bed where thou sawest [it].

Eze 21:24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, [I say], that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.

Eze 29:16 And it shall be no more the confidence of the house of Israel, which bringeth [their] iniquity to remembrance,

Hbr 10:3 But in those [sacrifices there is] a remembrance again [made] of sins every year.

[Wags]

Does this "testimony against us" part have to do with the sacrifices they(Israel) did?And the removing of temple services(and animal sacrifice) remove the tesimony against them/us?


When you go to court the baliff reads the charges against you - in the case of the heavenly court these charges are removed, and you are pardoned becuause Yeshua took the punishment ment for you. However, just because you have been pardoned, it doesn't mean that the law (which you violated) has been done away with. The law is still there, you have just been pardoned. So as Yeshua said "go and sin no more."

And how do we know what sin is? Gods law shows us what sin is. Rabbi Shaul said that we were not to go on sinning just because we have been pardoned.

Thats a little mixed up, but since I am being used as a jungle gym by my 14 month old I'm not going to try to straighten it out right now....

[Shimshon]

Sin is what was removed. The curse of the Torah.


26 "See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse - 27 the blessing, if you listen to the mitzvot of ADONAI your God that I am giving you today; 28 and the curse, if you don't listen to the mitzvot of ADONAI your God, but turn aside from the way I am ordering you today and follow other gods that you have not known.

If you disobey God's commands you are under the curse. Every man was bound under sin. Even the Jews. But when the Cohen Hagadol came and shed his own blood for them, it was finished. Atonement had been made. A King had been placed in Tziyon. Who was both King and Preist of the Hevenly Temple.

He made the way for sin to be removed from the world. And said to 'follow him' so we could recieve this gift. He leads us to it.

He removed the curse. He made a way for ANY man to be holy in his sight. Not just the Jew.

Where as before he bound all up under sin. Now he has loosed the bounds and set the captives free. But some see their bindings as 'holy' and not to be set down.

When Elazar was raised from the dead, Yeshua said, UNBIND THAT MAN!! It seems the talmidim just stood there and looked at the 'old jew' all bound up in his mummy wraps, stinking and all. Yeshua tells them to unbind him so he would be free to follow Him. Yeshua unbinds the dead and raises them to life by the removal of the curse within the Torah.

Torah good, curse bad.

Sin is nailed to the cross. Yet, there are other 'covenants' (promises) that were made regarding the abandoning of the House of God (Yisrael) AND her regathering, ofcourse.

[Torah]

by the Spirit, not under law.

Galatians 5:16-26
16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

“Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness”

“live by the Spirit”? What does this mean?. I had a marred couple that were friends and went to the same Church we did. The wife started seeing another man. She said she was not happy with her husband and G-d wanted her to be happy. SO… She said by the Spirit she was being led to the Man that made her happy. [The Spirit will not lead us to something that is sin= everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.]
So I say live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. And how do we know what sin is, or our sinful nature is. My friend’s wife was living by her sinful nature, And not by the spirit that would have convicted her that she was breaking G-ds LAW. / Teaching how to live a G-dly life. In Torah/teaching it says in Deut 5:18 “Neither shalt thou commit adultery.’

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
Now! My friend’s wife left her husband, and the act of her sinful nature is obvious: sexual immorality. And for living like this she will not inherit the kingdom of God. But will be under the Curse that comes for breaking the Law. Now! If my friends wife would let herself be led by the spirit, move to in her heart, and convict her and if she would repent and turn from her sin/breaking the law. Then she would not be under the Law. Because it says

In Gal 3: 13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
Also

Col 2: 14
having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

But as it stands my friend wife still has the written code, with its regulations, that is against her and it stands opposed to her.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

All of these sin/breaking the law are in the Torah. And If someone lives like this they will not inherit the kingdom of G-d. But will be under the curse that the law brings.
But! If you live under the spirit that you received when you believed in Yeshua then people will know by the fruit in your life. Because the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
27 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Col 2: 14
having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
This is speaking of the curse of the written code of the law that condemned us. But He (Yeshua) becomes the curse in our place. So it is the curse of the law that was nailed to the cross.
Gal 3: 13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

[A_Pioneer]

To assume that the Perfect Torah, that which is holy, just and good. was done away with by being nailed to the cross so we could live lawless lives, is and was beyond my comprehension.

But Torah, was in fact nailed to the cross, Yeshua is the Word of God/Living Torah for the remission of our handwritten (by Angels) bill of sins and every careless word we uttered. As He so oft was quoted "Go and sin no more." Not so we can become "Lawless"." But we may be truely "Free."

Without Torah, one has a form of "godliness".

[Bananna]

Pi man,
you get too cryptic everyone will think you are agreeing with them.

(from under the desk tosses chocolate and hides.)
bananna

[Tishri1]

Pi man,
you get too cryptic everyone will think you are agreeing with them.

(from under the desk tosses chocolate and hides.)
bananna(Tishri dives over the desk at the mention of Chocolate:yum: )

[A_Pioneer]

Bananna & Tishri,

No grenades coming your way, no need to hide. Yeshua spoke in parables, sorta cryptic, don't you think?

To me it was as plain as the nose on my face. Keep the commandments! If you want to enter into His Kingdom. Mt 22:12 "So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. It is plain to me this man was invited to the wedding!

[ShirChadash]

I agree with you, Pioneer. The whole of the Word cannot be more clear, imho.