Help with a problem Im having with Eastern Rite Orthodoxy

[drewmeister2]

Hi all,

I have recently been ignoring Eastern Rite Orthodoxy, and have looked a little toward Western Rite Orthodoxy. One of the reasons is the very anti-West and anti-Rome attitude I have found on Orthodox forums. Some have been very nice, and very welcoming; others have been downright uncharitable. Im not saying Im perfect, and I obviously know I can't expect Orthodox to be perfect either. But some of it is very old, and seems that many hold grudges against the Roman Catholic Church, and sometimes, to the West in general. It has gotten so bad that if I was able to convert right now to Eastern Rite Orthodoxy, I would refuse, primarily because I dont want to be in an anti-West and anti-Rome environment my whole life.

Im not hear to argue whether or not you think Western Rite Orthodoxy is a good idea, but rather to see if what I have experienced in the past with Eastern Rite Orthodox is well-founded.

Please help me! I appreciate your time. I dont mean to be offensive to anyone by making this post.

God bless!

[gzt]

Then ignore the internet. Some people are ignorant and stupid, don't let the failings of others limit you. Seriously, the internet is one of the most potentially harmful tools around and if all you find on it is dissension and strife, best to ditch it. I'm not going to sugarcoat things, there are anti-Rome anti-West trends in Orthodoxy, there are also some possibly anti-Semitic trends if you look in the right places. I sympathize, you'd be right not to convert if anti-Rome anti-West teachings were intrinsic to Orthodoxy, something so obviously unchristian cannot be defended. But if you look around you should hopefully see that it's not the case.

Western-Rite Orthodoxy, by the way, wouldn't solve this problem you're having. Not in the least.

[elizabethevangeline]

One of the reasons is the very anti-West and anti-Rome attitude I have found on Orthodox forums. Some have been very nice, and very welcoming; others have been downright uncharitable.

I don't think forums will give you a balanced or true representation of the whole. I know there are some Orthodox forums that some Orthodox won't go to because the talk is so...not what they want to be a part of. I also think forums make it easy for polarizing topics to live and breathe...kind of like a greenhouse or a petri dish.

I've been going to an Orthodox church for a year. I've never had a IRL conversation re:the Catholic church.

Any prejudice I carry I picked up at the Baptist church. :sick:

[elizabethevangeline]

Seriously, the internet is one of the most potentially harmful tools around and if all you find on it is dissension and strife, best to ditch it. .

My priest makes a face and shakes his head whenever someone mentions the 'net. Says be very cautious with what you read there!

[Marjorie]

WR Orthodoxy? I thought you had decided on ER Catholicism? That's confusing! :D

Anyway, I agree with the others. The internet is not a good representation of Orthodoxy in general, especially the forum I know you're thinking of. That forum was the only place I ever questioned (if only for a moment) becoming Orthodox.

Like Elizabeth, I've never had an IRL conversation on the Catholic Church with Orthodox except when talking about something good coming out of it. The Orthodox goal of course is to speak evil of no one.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[gzt]

There are occasional conversations at my parishes about the Catholic Church, usually slightly misinformed but not malicious or anti-Catholic at all, though not the sort of thing I'd participate in, perhaps it's just the ecumenist in me.

But, I gotta repeat: I feel your pain, and if you've gotta do it, stay off the internet.

[sin_vladimirov]

It takes a lot of good will, wanting and above all honest prayer and tears to stop thinking one way and start thinking the other.

I was very anti-roman and anti-western. And even today I can find myself thinking that way from time to time. Especially when the question of anything that has to do with something western is abusing, attacking or doing anything negative towards the east.

My mind has been made to first not trust anyone (communist) than not trust east (SDA) then not trust west (Serb) then not trust west and Rome (Orthodox Serb).

I am trying. I am praying. I am doing all I can to start trusting and loving. It is hard.

Now, being so hard for me,

imagine then the pople who never lived in the west. Never met a western person. Never talked to one. Never had a chance to feel that he/she is the same as all others. Same pain, same fear, same love.
Imagine these people who by means of the internet are able to say what the feel and think.
The people who have very good MODERN reasons not to trust anyone on the west (should I say who I am talking about; but not just them but all the others who have all the reasons not to trust west-which would be THE REST OF THE WORLD).
These people, are able to say what they think and feel via the internet, in the real time. They do not pray and want to feel differently. They feel no need to do so.
All they know of the west is pain and suffering, inflicted upon them by the very west that produces pictures of rich and famous while bombing and burning. Why would they feel positive about the west?

Again, I am wanting to love. I pray to love. It is very hard.
Those do not want to love they feel no need to do so.
West is the greatest evil they ever knew.

So, knowing both what you are saying and what they are saying, I, being stuck in the middle, can not say anything but, brother... do as you wish.

[Orthosdoxa]

There are occasional conversations at my parishes about the Catholic Church, usually slightly misinformed but not malicious or anti-Catholic at all, though not the sort of thing I'd participate in, perhaps it's just the ecumenist in me.

But, I gotta repeat: I feel your pain, and if you've gotta do it, stay off the internet.

I agree. The internet often brings out the worst in people. Real Orthodoxy must simply be lived. What you see here, despite our best efforts, is a pale shadow. I challenge you to step into the Life of the Church - get involved in a parish. While you will still find sinners there (gasp! ;)), I tend to think much of the crud you'll find on the internet won't be like that.

The Orthodox ideal is to judge no one and to focus on love patience, gentleness, all that stuff. Of course we DO tell the Truth and don't sugarcoat it. We're not big into the "we're all the same" feel-good stuff. Glossing over differences with other groups outside the Church is a cowardly and unloving thing to do. But there is never any excuse for a blatant lack of charity. If we fail to live up to the call of Christ, if we fail to live His Love, it is our own fault, not because of lack of teachings in that area.

Forgive me if I have ever offended you.


LK

[WickedServant]

Hi all,
I have recently been ignoring Eastern Rite Orthodoxy, and have looked a little toward Western Rite Orthodoxy. One of the reasons is the very anti-West and anti-Rome attitude I have found on Orthodox forums. Some have been very nice, and very welcoming; others have been downright uncharitable. Im not saying Im perfect, and I obviously know I can't expect Orthodox to be perfect either. But some of it is very old, and seems that many hold grudges against the Roman Catholic Church, and sometimes, to the West in general. It has gotten so bad that if I was able to convert right now to Eastern Rite Orthodoxy, I would refuse, primarily because I dont want to be in an anti-West and anti-Rome environment my whole life.
Im not hear to argue whether or not you think Western Rite Orthodoxy is a good idea, but rather to see if what I have experienced in the past with Eastern Rite Orthodox is well-founded.
Please help me! I appreciate your time. I dont mean to be offensive to anyone by making this post.
God bless!

God bless you too! ;)

Is there a different in the Orthoxox rites performed in the eastern world and those done here in the western world, other than language?

Can anyone explain please? I am your student...

Bless me

[Marjorie]

Kevin,

Not generally, except for in a small movement called Western Rite Orthodoxy, which is what he is talking about. WR Orthodoxy is a movement mainly from Orthodox converts in the West... an attempt to rediscover the Orthodox pre-schism liturgies of the West, because those too would be part of our Tradition. It's a bit controversial.

http://www2.orthodoxwiki.org/Western_Rite

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[tdcharles]

Kevin,

Not generally, except for in a small movement called Western Rite Orthodoxy, which is what he is talking about. WR Orthodoxy is a movement mainly from Orthodox converts in the West... an attempt to rediscover the Orthodox pre-schism liturgies of the West, because those too would be part of our Tradition. It's a bit controversial.

http://www2.orthodoxwiki.org/Western_Rite

In IC XC,
Marjorie
Interesting! Do they use Latin in their liturgy or is it in vernacular?

[Marjorie]

Interesting! Do they use Latin in their liturgy or is it in vernacular?

Vernacular, as far as I know.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[tdcharles]

Vernacular, as far as I know.

In IC XC,
Marjorie
Okay, thanks.

[VickiY]

If I may interject?

Drewmeister, I've seen your name on several internet fora, and seen the advice that you have been given by people.

You are, if I recall correctly, still a child, not even 18. These people (again, I know which ones have been giving you which advice) have all sorts of baggage. They are polemical, and they feel that as long as they are in "the right" jurisdiction, they can get away with converting to Orthodoxy with a great degree of hate (not using the word lightly) in their hearts. They feel that their personal praxis is irrelevant, as it is all about polemics.

Stay OFF the internet. I would even advise, at your age, not doing an awful lot of reading "unsupervised" as it were.

Are you near an Orthodox priest? If you like, you can PM me with a state and town, and I can put you in touch with a good priest near you. (I know lots).

Most priests, AND parishes, in real life have no hate and animosity to non-Orthodox. Those that do, are the ones to avoid. It is enough to disagree on points of theology in a civilized manner, without hate, ad hominem attacks, and rancor. There WILL, of course, be disagreements in theology. But those typically are simply THERE...as in "oh, we don't believe the same things they do" and they do not come up often in personal conversations. Life is hard enough for most people with their fasting, their prayer rules, their introspection, acts of charity, etc to admit of much polemical argument.

However, it is the state of your soul that you are responsible for, NOT whether you can identify six major heresies and write an essay about each.

Please, avoid those places. They are not doing you any good, do not reflect reality, and, in case you wonder why I read them periodically, it is to keep an eye on my goddaughter's posts, in case she shows signs of getting polemical. (She is blessed to have an exceptional spiritual father, though, so I do not see this happening any time soon).

Please remember that 99.9% of Orthodoxy is in capturing the right spirit...in love and humility approach the Church...leave legalism and polemics behind you.

Best of luck in your journey, and feel free to PM me.

Vicki

[Marjorie]

Okay, thanks.

I could be wrong though... one of the members of TAW is WR Orthodox but she doesn't frequent here that often. I assume it's done in the vernacular because that's the Orthodox way of doing things (after all, the Liturgy had to be translated into the vernacular Latin from the Greek at some point), but I could be wrong.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[drewmeister2]

Thank you all for your wonderful advice. I really appreciate it. Its not so much this forum, its another EO forum Ive had troubles at. You guys seem to be more charitable to the West :)

Thanks again!

[OrthodoxTexan]

Spend more time in Church, less time on 'net....problems will solve themselves. Honestly, I have spend amost exactly zero time talking about Rome or Roman Catholicism among my "realworld" Orthodox friends. The topic just doesn't ever seem to come up after liturgy at coffee hour. We're usually too busy trying to plan where we are going for lunch. :) Now, on 'net discussions its quite the opposite....too much time discussing our Western Brothers, not enough time talking about the correct techniques involved in smoking a brisket. Speaking of that, they need a BBQ pit armor on this site. And maybe an emoticon of a lamb on a rotisserie.

:liturgy: :liturgy:

[Marjorie]

Spend more time in Church, less time on 'net....problems will solve themselves. Honestly, I have spend amost exactly zero time talking about Rome or Roman Catholicism among my "realworld" Orthodox friends. The topic just doesn't ever seem to come up after liturgy at coffee hour. We're usually too busy trying to plan where we are going for lunch. :) Now, on 'net discussions its quite the opposite....too much time discussing our Western Brothers, not enough time talking about the correct techniques involved in smoking a brisket. Speaking of that, they need a BBQ pit armor on this site. And maybe an emoticon of a lamb on a rotisserie.

:liturgy: :liturgy:

No! No lamb on a rotisserie! IT WOULD BE OUTRAGE during Great Lent, the Nativity Fast, the Apostles' Fast, the Dormition Fast, and Wednesdays and Fridays and MORE!

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[sin_vladimirov]

Its not so much this forum...You guys seem to be more charitable to the West


Looks left... looks right... starts walking backwards... sneaking out of the room... slowly..

[Marjorie]

Looks left... looks right... starts walking backwards... sneaking out of the room... slowly..

:D

Seriously though Stefan, we've all noticed a change in your manner of speaking about RCs. It is refreshing to see someone so humble that he is able to change (as opposed to those of us who have hardened our hearts.)

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[drewmeister2]

Oh, I thought Stefan was being uncharitable by that last comment, my mistake

[OrthodoxTexan]

No! No lamb on a rotisserie! IT WOULD BE OUTRAGE during Great Lent, the Nativity Fast, the Apostles' Fast, the Dormition Fast, and Wednesdays and Fridays and MORE!

In IC XC,
MarjorieMaybe we can peition for a series of Orthodoox emoticons to denoting the various fasting regminens. We could hace the lamb, some cheese, wine, oil, etc...

[sin_vladimirov]

:D

Seriously though Stefan, we've all noticed a change in your manner of speaking about RCs. It is refreshing to see someone so humble that he is able to change (as opposed to those of us who have hardened our hearts.)

In IC XC,
Marjorie


Thats because NOW is the Hunting Season on the Protestants.

RC's are from the December till June!... ^_^



Seriously, thank you... it can always be done more... much more.

[Marjorie]

Maybe we can peition for a series of Orthodoox emoticons to denoting the various fasting regminens. We could hace the lamb, some cheese, wine, oil, etc...

:D!!! Loves it! It would also be good for fasting reminders.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[drewmeister2]

lol, thanks for the humor ;)

[Xpycoctomos]

Thank you all for your wonderful advice. I really appreciate it. Its not so much this forum, its another EO forum Ive had troubles at. You guys seem to be more charitable to the West :)

Thanks again!



Oh my... there were two other EO groups in the net I was shortly attached to... they even bicked AMONGST themselves about jurisdictional things. It was nasty and UnOrthodox/UnChristian (and I don't mean that lightly). I talked to a priest about some questions I had after reading some things on these forums. He finally asked me "Why are you so concerned about all of this, this isn't healthy at all." I told him I had read all of this on this or that forum. He told me that I should find the strength to break off from these threads. He wasn't my spiritual father, but I thought about what he said and agreed with him. I got out of them and even asked that my account be canceled so I wouldn't go back. i ahven't. I have found TAW to be pretty charitable as EO Forums go. We've definitely had our ugly times (and I've only been here almost year now) and Im sure we will ahve more ugly times in the future, but we get through them because the people here (like in OBOB) are very conscious of the fact that Christianity is about love... not theology and that it very well may be our obsession wiith "orthodox" theology that damns us to hell. TAW and OBOB are good places despite our obvious short comings... but in the end... I agree with, well, everyone's posts here and I think GZTs first post is the best summary. Orthodoxy in the everyday REAL parish life is not polemical like this... and if you come to a Church where all they do is complain about their old protestant Churches or how glad they are to not be Catholic anymore, just look for better friends and/or another parish (especially if the priest is like this).

God bless you Drewmeister... what a good thread! Thanks!

John

[drewmeister2]

To tell the truth, I dont know what to do. I feel better about Eastern Rite, but in the end, I am a Western boy. I was raised in conservative Catholicism (not liberal Catholicism, which is virtually protestantism), so I am very much attached to the West. In some ways, I dont find the East as fulfilling for me as the West. I have thought about being a Western Rite Benedictine, but I dont know, I love the Benedictine Order.

Any thoughts?

[drewmeister2]

Thank you, John, for your advice!

[WickedServant]

Kevin,

Not generally, except for in a small movement called Western Rite Orthodoxy, which is what he is talking about. WR Orthodoxy is a movement mainly from Orthodox converts in the West... an attempt to rediscover the Orthodox pre-schism liturgies of the West, because those too would be part of our Tradition. It's a bit controversial.

http://www2.orthodoxwiki.org/Western_Rite

In IC XC,
Marjorie

Ahh, okay, thanks. I should have known that, I kind of read about it briefly really, really late one night. :yawn: It is a little minefield, isn't it? :eek:

Bless me

[sin_vladimirov]

Pray and fast, like you never done before.
Only through the ears of the mortified flesh, we can hear the Voice.


Now, that could be defined as more of an advice than a thought, but..

[tdcharles]

I could be wrong though... one of the members of TAW is WR Orthodox but she doesn't frequent here that often. I assume it's done in the vernacular because that's the Orthodox way of doing things (after all, the Liturgy had to be translated into the vernacular Latin from the Greek at some point), but I could be wrong.

In IC XC,
Marjorie
I researched it, they seem to just use the English translation of the Tridentine Mass.

Dominus vobiscum

[Monica, child of God]

In some ways, I dont find the East as fulfilling for me as the West.

This surprises me but think its where your priest/spiritual father comes in. There is so much depth in Orthodox praxis that we can continue to plunge.

One of the priests at my parish said that he thought he'd completly grasped the Liturgy during his ~20 years of service...until he began to study under another priest. He began to see and exerience nuances that he never had before. This is so amazing to me because he is the son and grandson of priests who'd really taught him to live the Liturgy. There is always more and farther and deeper. It is inexhaustible.

Have you visited a monastery yet? If there are any close by I would highly recommend visiting and speaking to the abbot or abbess.

Blessings!
Monica

[gzt]

Well, frankly, you've only had superficial experiences with the East, hardly enough to judge anything. Wait and see, you haven't seen anything yet, definitely not enough to make any sort of life-altering decisions. Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions, you have a long long time before you will even be in a position to make any decisions. You're very young, slow down, you have a lot of unlearning to do.

And delete your account on that other site. Never go back. And don't solicit random strangers on the internet for information about Orthodox Christianity or you'll get horrible information, which you already know well enough from experience.

[Marjorie]

I kind of know what you feel about the West (though of course not to the same extent), drewmeister. One of my major barriers to Orthodoxy was that I really do prefer a lot of Western spirituality to the Byzantine Rite. Every time I see something on TV from some Benedictine monastery in Europe or something I feel very at peace. But I believe that the Holy Spirit drew me to Orthodoxy despite this...

I really hope that the WR grows and develops to a point that I would feel comfortable in it.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Monica, child of God]

I kind of know what you feel about the West (though of course not to the same extent), drewmeister. One of my major barriers to Orthodoxy was that I really do prefer a lot of Western spirituality to the Byzantine Rite. Every time I see something on TV from some Benedictine monastery in Europe or something I feel very at peace. But I believe that the Holy Spirit drew me to Orthodoxy despite this...

I really hope that the WR grows and develops to a point that I would feel comfortable in it.

Yeah I feel drawn to Western spirituality and some of the liturgical forms. I feel totally comfortable and "fulfilled" in the Eastern Rite, but I do hope there is a place for the West in Orthodoxy as well.

M.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Drewmeister,
My advice is the same I gave to you last night in AIM. Ignore what goes on on the net if it is of bother to you. This forum is a very confined quarter and sometimes some bad blood developes between OBOB and TAW that otherwise would not normally develope. This is mostly due to the type of forum the internet is. Orthodoxy is not anti-Catholic just like Rome is not anti-Orthodox. We may have mutually exclusive doctrines, but neither church teaches hatred of anything, let alone each other. My best advice is to seek information on Orthodoxy from well known Orthodox authors and from the Fathers of the Church. They will lead you best. We will still answer any questions which you have. And finally, trust where the Holy Spirit leads you, he will never lead you astray. May God bless you!
Michael

[MariaRegina]

Interesting! Do they use Latin in their liturgy or is it in vernacular?

Some of the Antiochian Western Rite Churches have used Latin ... I once had a tape of the choir at St. Augustine Antiochian Orthodox Church in Colorado singing in Latin ... and they sounded great. They chanted in Gregorian Chant too.

[MariaRegina]

If I may interject?

Drewmeister, I've seen your name on several internet fora, and seen the advice that you have been given by people.

You are, if I recall correctly, still a child, not even 18. These people (again, I know which ones have been giving you which advice) have all sorts of baggage. They are polemical, and they feel that as long as they are in "the right" jurisdiction, they can get away with converting to Orthodoxy with a great degree of hate (not using the word lightly) in their hearts. They feel that their personal praxis is irrelevant, as it is all about polemics.

Stay OFF the internet. I would even advise, at your age, not doing an awful lot of reading "unsupervised" as it were.

Are you near an Orthodox priest? If you like, you can PM me with a state and town, and I can put you in touch with a good priest near you. (I know lots).

Most priests, AND parishes, in real life have no hate and animosity to non-Orthodox. Those that do, are the ones to avoid. It is enough to disagree on points of theology in a civilized manner, without hate, ad hominem attacks, and rancor. There WILL, of course, be disagreements in theology. But those typically are simply THERE...as in "oh, we don't believe the same things they do" and they do not come up often in personal conversations. Life is hard enough for most people with their fasting, their prayer rules, their introspection, acts of charity, etc to admit of much polemical argument.

However, it is the state of your soul that you are responsible for, NOT whether you can identify six major heresies and write an essay about each.

Please, avoid those places. They are not doing you any good, do not reflect reality, and, in case you wonder why I read them periodically, it is to keep an eye on my goddaughter's posts, in case she shows signs of getting polemical. (She is blessed to have an exceptional spiritual father, though, so I do not see this happening any time soon).

Please remember that 99.9% of Orthodoxy is in capturing the right spirit...in love and humility approach the Church...leave legalism and polemics behind you.

Best of luck in your journey, and feel free to PM me.

Vicki


If a convert or catechumen shows any hatred, the priest will usually delay Chrismation/Baptism. The Orthodox Priest looks for signs of repentance and joy in the Holy Spirit before he brings a candidate into the Orthodox Church.

[Xpycoctomos]

They chanted in Gregorian Chant too.

I know this is subjective to a point... but I don't know of any other form of chant that moves me more. It makes you want to fall to your knees in humility for you know that you are in the presence of Someone beyond Holy and beyond this world.

[Benedicta00]

Hi all,

I have recently been ignoring Eastern Rite Orthodoxy, and have looked a little toward Western Rite Orthodoxy.
Did not know a western rite existed. At first it look like someone was calling American Orthodox, western rite Orthodox.

I was empathizing because Latin rite Catholics often get called the “Latin Church” or the “Roman Church” or even the “Vatican Church” instead of just calling us what we are- the Catholic Church, latin rite.

So sorry if I caused any confusion.

[Benedicta00]

LOL every time I see that flag under your name I think of the word hilarious!

What exactly is your problem with thge constant insults and put downs?

Do you even know what I am referring to, why I find this humorous?

This is the second time I have reported you tonight and this is your forum, just what is your problem?

[sin_vladimirov]

What exactly is your problem with thge constant insults and put downs?

Do you even know what I am referring to, why I find this humorous?

This is the second time I have reported you tonight and this is your forum, just what is your problem?

INSULTS?! PUTTING DOWN?!

I beg your pardon!


SHOW ME THE INSULT!

WHERE DID I INSULT YOU?

[drewmeister2]

Stefan,

I think she thinks you are thinking the Vatican flag to be hilarious (or this is what I interpreted you to mean).

I find it very rude too (if this is in fact what you are referring to; I hope Im interpreting you correctly! If not forgive me).

[sin_vladimirov]

Stefan,

I think she thinks you are thinking the Vatican flag to be hilarious (or this is what I interpreted you to mean).

I find it very rude too (if this is in fact what you are referring to; I hope Im interpreting you correctly! If not forgive me).


You do not find her saying that we are inventing stuff and the she finds words like Western Rite Orthodox hilarious, rude?


Sorry, stupid of me to even ask that.

[drewmeister2]

Yes, it may have been rude. But does that mean you come out and be rude back to her? You are both wrong, in this case. Rather than striking back, you should have said, "This was offensive, please modify it."

THIS IS WHY I NEED TO GET OUT OF THESE STUPID FORUMS.

[sin_vladimirov]

Thank you Drewmeister I think that you are fully right!

I am sorry if what I said hurt you and I will gladly delete it, it is not my intetion to offend anyone who honestly asks questions.

Unfortunately, I am just not kind of person to say words like:"This is very offensive, please modify it". People should think what they write in the first place.

I do apologize if what I wrote offended you, it was not my intention to offend anyone, it was just an answer to what was written.

If you can accept this it would be nice.

[drewmeister2]

Its ok, Stefan. :) I know you didnt mean to be mean :) :hug:

I hope I didnt sound too overbearing by my last comment, please forgive if I was.

I dont know, thats how I feel about things like this. If I am wrong about what I said in my last post, please forgive that, too.

God bless! And thanks :)

[Khaleas]

I did find the sudden slam on Western Rite quite rude, but decided to sit it out instead of raising war. It really just came out of nowhere without any provocation. SV... yes, you could have been a bit more tactful, but we're not all even tempered persons...

But I've seen a bit of a trend.... when there is an argument between RC & Orthodox here and the RC (who also should know the rules) starts a debate. Then when they get corrected, they run off doors slamming and saying how rude all Orthodox are. Rarely do we see a direct apology (and yes both Shelb5 and SV made apologies but there is just an if and a but to both). In confession we are instructed not to blame things on others but to look into ourselves... I'll just leave it at that... (and add that I'm not perfect in any way shape or form, I'm the chief of sinners)...

ADD: Shelb5 states she has not apologized but just feels sorry for TAW (in other topic)

[Benedicta00]

I did find the sudden slam on Western Rite quite rude,

I didn’t slam it. What I meant was all these PC names for the Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Church are getting more and more out of hand. I had no idea that Orthodoxy contained both eastern and western rites.

[Khaleas]

I didn’t slam it. What I meant was all these PC names for the Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Church are getting more and more out of hand. I had no idea that Orthodoxy contained both eastern and western rites.

But instead of asking, you just thought it was hilarious...

It's like me thinking the Vatican is just some random landing spot for pigeons and some old dude that comes out in a funny hat on a balcony to wave to people cuz that's what you see on TV. Now, before we start... I've been there, seen & listened to JP II during Sun mass, and I know what the Vatican is, but what you think is funny can be hurtful to others and the way you said it... that's the way you sounded.

I forgive you no less!

[sin_vladimirov]

Its ok, Stefan. :) I know you didnt mean to be mean :) :hug:

I hope I didnt sound too overbearing by my last comment, please forgive if I was.

I dont know, thats how I feel about things like this. If I am wrong about what I said in my last post, please forgive that, too.

God bless! And thanks :)


ITS ME!!

if you people have not learned by now that on Thursdays and Mondays I am just unbearable, on Wednesdays and Fridays just plain stupid and on every other day mad, when are you going to learn it?!

Tact, me?! Hello! What is that?

No drew you were ok, it is just me. I do not report people on this forum, I do not tell them Oh can you change that... I return fire! Rules of engagemet:

1. When approached by a protestant/ RC/ Other non-Orthodox, open fire.
2. When approached by an Orthdodox that thinks differently, open fire.
3. Ah forget about it... just open fire.

So, I use number 3!

It is not my intention to chase people of the forum, its just me...

I am a book worm, letters-pages-and no love!

God knows that I want to change, but its hard.
I gave up drugs, smokes, alcohol, swearing, punching people... but... now I am dealing with my attitude.

It will take a while.... RESTORATION IN PROCESS!

Give me some time... lets say... 100 years... maybe more..

[OrthodoxTexan]

The internet sucks....that is all.

[Xpycoctomos]

???


Western rite Orthodoxy? Boy we keep getting more and more creative with these names.


What else would you call it? It's Orthodoxy and it's of Western Rite. It struck me as rude to at first, but I'm taking your word at it that it wasn't meant to be so. But now I am just confused what else we would call it?

[Khaleas]

???



What else would you call it? It's Orthodoxy and it's of Western Rite. It struck me as rude to at first, but I'm taking your word at it that it wasn't meant to be so. But now I am just confused what else we would call it?

Now, go back and look at the acronym thread from earlier today... you'll find something... ;)

I'm off to OD on incense... :crosseo:

[Benedicta00]

???



What else would you call it? It's Orthodoxy and it's of Western Rite. It struck me as rude to at first, but I'm taking your word at it that it wasn't meant to be so. But now I am just confused what else we would call it?
John, I was referring to the thread we had about the titles and the political correctness. I didn’t realize they were actual rites. I thought this was a term for Orthodox who live in America. That is why I said these names are more and more creative.

[RobNJ]

John, I was referring to the thread we had about the titles and the political correctness. I didn’t realize they were actual rites. I thought this was a term for Orthodox who live in America. That is why I said these names are more and more creative.


Read this, for some info:
http://www.antiochian.org/western-rite

[Xpycoctomos]

John, I was referring to the thread we had about the titles and the political correctness. I didn’t realize they were actual rites. I thought this was a term for Orthodox who live in America. That is why I said these names are more and more creative.

Ahhh.... no. This is Orthodoxy that uses a Western Rite. It's somewhat controversial because it lacks an organic growth (Western Rite Orthodoxy disappeared centuries and centuries ago so this was an attempt to ressurect it and reconstruct it using manuscripts they found and ancient liturgies still used by Anglicans and perhaps Catholics, taking out the unOrthodox stuff. But, it seems to be very spiritually edifying for many individuals and honestly know much too little about it to truly criticize so I continue to pray that the Holy SPirit will lead Western Rite Orthodoxy.

John