Who are these guys?

[Jason of Wyoming]

http://www.oldorthodox.org/pages/1/index.htm

[Jason of Wyoming]

They also run this Seminary:

http://www.st-elias-edu.us/

[StChristopherofPalestine]

I've never heard of them, but this line makes me suspicious:

"The Eparchy of Nebraska does not enter the unholy and futile debate over church politics of what one entity considers “canonical” over other opposing views. Neither is there such thing as the silly notion of 'legitimate' vs. 'illegitimate' religion, churches or faith groups."

[Rilian]

The Vagante Church of Vagantism.

[Rilian]

Aka a garage church.

[Moros]

Schismatics.

[Jason of Wyoming]

Is this a valid apostolic line?







Here We wish now to publish excerpts our Archives show regarding this particular line of Orthodox Apostolic Succession of Our Holy Synod:

1. Archbishop Christopher (Contageorge) was consecrated on the 10th of February 1934 by Archbishop Aftimios (Ofiesh) of the Russian Patriarchal Church, Archbishop Sophronios (Bashira) of the Syrian Orthodox Church, and Metropolitan Theophan (Fan Noli) of Albania.

2. Archbishop Arsenios (Saltas) was consecrated on the 25th of August 1934 by Archbishop Christopher and Bishop Nicholas.

3. Bishop Joseph (Klimovich) was consecrated in 1935 by Archbishop Nicholas, Archbishop Arsenios and Archbishop Fedchenkoff of the Moscow Patriarchate.

4. Archbishop Konstantine (Jaroshevich) was consecrated in 1949 by Archbishop Christopher, Archbishop Arsenios and Metropolitan Theophan.

5. Metropolitan Nicholas (Bohatyretz) of the Autocephalous Ukrainian Church was consecrated on the 14th of October 1950 by Archbishop Joseph, Archbishop Konstantine and Metropolitan Joseph (Zielonka) of the Syrian Patriarchate of Antioch.

6. Bishop Peter (Zuravetsky) was consecrated on the 15th of October 1950 by Archbishop Joseph, Archbishop Konstantine and Metropolitan Nicholas.

7. Archbishop Joachim (Souris) was consecrated on the 2nd of June 1951 by Archbishop Joseph, Bishop Peter and Metropolitan Joseph.

8. On the 10th of April 1982, Archbishop Joachim along with six other Greek Bishops of his Synod, the Holy Synod of True Orthodox Christians (Old Calendar, G.O.X.), consecrated Bishop Andreas (Novak) and elevated him to Metropolitan to lead the Synod in North America.

9. In 1987, Metropolitan Andreas received into his Metropolis Bishop Philip (Caine) appointing him Bishop of Pennsylvania.

10. In March 1988, Metropolitan Damaskinos, as President of the Synod in Greece, notified in writing Metropolitan Andreas of the election to the Episcopate of Archimandrite Haralampos (Young). Bishop Haralampos was consecrated on the 1lth of June 1988 by Metropolitan Andreas, Bishop Philip, and with the blessing and seal of Metropolitan Damaskinos on behalf of the Holy Synod.

11. On the 4th of January 1985, Bishop Timotheos (Athanassiou) was consecrated by Archbishop Joakim, Metropolitan Damaskinos and two other Bishops of the Holy Synod, and assigned Exarch Metropolitan of Montreal, Canada and the United States. Metropolitan Timotheos also received official recognition for his position from the Ministry of Justice of Quebec, Canada (22 JUL 87); and Patriarchal greetings from Jerusalem (Prot. No. 496, 22 Oct 91). 12. In December 1993, Metropolitan Timotheos announced, both in writing and via telephone, the election to the episcopate of Abbot Michael Seraphim (Melchizedek). On the 3rd of January 1994, Bishop Melchizedek was consecrated by the Metropolitans Timotheos (Athanassiou) and Timotheos (Mavias) in Athens, Greece, at the Church of St. Photini, and with the blessing and seal of Bishop Haralampos on behalf of the American Metropolis. Bishop Melchizedek subsequently was assigned Exarch of Canada in addition to the establishment of an Eparchy in Nebraska.

[Xpycoctomos]

I've never heard of them, but this line makes me suspicious:

"The Eparchy of Nebraska does not enter the unholy and futile debate over church politics of what one entity considers “canonical” over other opposing views. Neither is there such thing as the silly notion of 'legitimate' vs. 'illegitimate' religion, churches or faith groups."

They sound illegitimate to me.

[Orthosdoxa]

Oh THESE guys again. Gag me. No, they are not Orthodox. If you are not in Eucharistic and organic communion with the Church that was born at Pentecost, then you are not Orthodox. I'd say they are Protestants with incense and funny hats - they just want to do things THEIR way.

[gzt]

The key part in that succession is this: Archbishop Aftimios (Ofiesh).

He sort of went schismatic, married, ordained a lot of people, went apostate... It's a sad story in American Orthodoxy.

[Jason of Wyoming]

Thanks gzt. That's really what I was looking for.

[gzt]

http://www2.orthodoxwiki.org/Aftimios_Ofiesh

There are also other big problems, like #5, #8...

[Jason of Wyoming]

Same must go for these guys as well:

http://www.theocacna.us/

[The Prokeimenon!]

Are these the guys with the Seminary in Seward, Nebraska? Anonykat and I called them once when we lived in Nebraska to ask who their Bishop was. They wouldn't say right away, and after a while it came out that they were from some schismatic group (like the kind of schismatics that break off from other schismatics.) Anytime somebody doesn't have an immediate answer to "who is your Bishop," - beware.

Moses

[The Prokeimenon!]

The Eparchy of Nebraska does not enter the unholy and futile debate over church politics of what one entity considers “canonical” over other opposing views.

translation: we cannot win this debate, because we don't have a canonical leg to stand on, so we just don't try.

Neither is there such thing as the silly notion of 'legitimate' vs. 'illegitimate' religion, churches or faith groups.

translation: we call the notion of legitimacy "silly" to draw attention away from our own excessive silliness.

There's a lot of wolves in sheep's clothing. I think if you dig deep into these guys, you'll find they have a very twisted history, with not a shred of relation to any Orthodox organization. (Kind of like how that Pope who lives in Missouri or Montana has no real relation to the Catholic Church.)

Moses

[MORTANIUS]

I suppose these particular Church is "Protestant" lol

[sin_vladimirov]

I suppose these particular Church is "Protestant" lol

^_^

Must be LOL

[Irish Melkite]

Same must go for these guys as well:

http://www.theocacna.us/ (http://www.theocacna.us/)

Jason,

Not quite. Although THEOCACNA also traces itself back to Archbishop Aftimios Ofiesh (as do a significant number of the "independent" and/or vagante "Orthodox" bodies), it (THEOCACNA) makes the Eparchy of Nebraska folks look as if they are the most canonical body in Orthodoxy. It's safe to say that there is no vagante "Orthodox" body in the US that has such a history as does THEOCACNA. Perusing their website a bit will make it more than evident that this organization thrives on, and has survived chiefly on, controversy and on allusions to its supposed connections with canonical Churches that it uses to give credence to its "Orthodoxy".

Many years,

Neil (who, despite his vow to avoid posting, couldn't pass up a reference to THEOCACNA, lest anyone be naive enough to believe it had legitimacy)

[sin_vladimirov]

Thank you Neil, much appreciated.

in ICXC
stefan+


Many years!

[Emmanuel-A]

if you have time to waste, there's a website that lists a lot of these bogus jurisdictions and cheap mitres.

http://www.ind-movement.org

You have a list of the "primates" of these churches in the "people section". Of course you find the heads of Nebraska eparchy and Theocacna.

[The Prokeimenon!]

THEOCACNA has an Archbishop GEORGE MICHAEL! Wake me up before you go-go!

Moses

[Rilian]

THEOCACNA has an Archbishop GEORGE MICHAEL! Wake me up before you go-go!

Moses

He has a Sakkos that says "Choose Life" on it in big white letters.

[The Prokeimenon!]

Before becoming Archbishop, he was the Abbot at the Western Holy Amercian Monastary (W.H.A.M)

Moses

[ExOrienteLux]

Are they affiliated with the Perfect Orthodox of the West (P.O.W.)?

[The Prokeimenon!]

Are they affiliated with the Perfect Orthodox of the West (P.O.W.)?


Yes, but unfortunately they are not in communion with the Perfect Orthodox of the Western Orthodox World (P.O.W.O.W.) or the True Orthodox Greek Archdiocese (T.O.G.A.) or the French Orthodox Greek Holy American Temple (F.O.G.H.A.T.)

Ok- now I've gone too far :D

Moses

[gzt]

Yeah Foghat... Must resist temptation to find a way to do Foreigner...

[OrthodoxyUSA]

38 Special!

Forgive me....

[Jason of Wyoming]

Nothing like a little humor!

But you're forgetting the Synod of the True Young Christians (S.T.Y.X), and the
British Orthodox Standing True On Nationalism! (B.O.S.T.O.N)

[SirTimothy]

Yah Foghat... Must resist temptation to find a way to do Foreigner...


Would that be the Free-thinking Orthodox Reactionary Elitists In Greek National Ermine Robes church?

Timothy (Who couldn't resist the temptation)

[ExOrienteLux]

But you're forgetting the Synod of the True Young Christians (S.T.Y.X), and the British Orthodox Standing True On Nationalism! (B.O.S.T.O.N)

And they, last I checked, were still in communion with the Russian Ultradox Synod of Helsinki (R.U.S.H), though they may have removed themselves from such heresy.

[ExOrienteLux]

Not to mention the Correct, Holy, and Infallible Church of Antiochian-Greek Orthodox (C.H.I.C.A.G.O.)!

[OrthodoxyUSA]

And they, last I checked, were still in communion with the Russian Ultradox Synod of Helsinki (R.U.S.H), though they may have removed themselves from such heresy.

How dare you call Russian Ultradox Synod of Helsinki (R.U.S.H) heretical!

http://home.comcast.net/~pasudduth/smiles/350.gif

[Jason of Wyoming]

How dare you call Russian Ultradox Synod of Helsinki (R.U.S.H) heretical!

Is Outrage!

[ExOrienteLux]

How dare you call Russian Ultradox Synod of Helsinki (R.U.S.H) heretical!

Why? They're Sergian Ecumenicist Pan-Heretics, like the rest of World Orthodoxy!

http://home.comcast.net/~pasudduth/smiles/350.gif back at ya!

[Kolya]

This heresy can be traced back to the innimitable British Eastern And Theologically Liturgical Ecumenical Schismatics (B.E.A.T.L.E.S) whose first two Bishops have sadly passed on, namley, Bishop George and the more widly known Bishiop John. Bishop Paul continues the line, while Reader Ringo has sadly gone to ground. ( IS OUTRAGE)

[Irish Melkite]

Personally, I'm giving up church because of these jurisdictional disputes. I find it much more edifying to attend symposia sponsored by the Widows of the Unknown Soldiers and the Society of Illiterate Bibliophiles - now those are people you don't get to sit down with every day.

[Xpycoctomos]

IM... "Personally, I'm giving up church because of these jurisdictional disputes."

?? You're giving up ON Church? What do you mean by this?

[Xpycoctomos]

By the way guys, I'm a bishop now so if you have any questions or needs some priests, I can get ya some.

[Xpycoctomos]

You may be wondering how: Well, I once met Bishop Job of the OCA and as I went to get a blessing from him, instead of saying "Master Bless", I said very quickly and under my breath "make me a bishop" and he blessed me so.. there ya go.

[Alchemist]

Lol. Well you've all given me something to have a chuckle at :).

As for all the abbreviations, I would think that any church that goes to the trouble of calling itself the "Holy Eastern Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic
Church in North America" is probably attempting to compensate for something! Unfortunately, in this day and age where many Protestants are feeling something is missing from their congregations, tagging "Orthodox" or "Apostolic" to the name of your evangelical church seems to be the flavour of the month - have a look here (http://www.apostolic.org.au/). To quote their website,"[The Apostolic Church (of Australia)] holds to all the early creeds of historic Christianity and is in perfect harmony with orthodox Christian doctrine. It is also in agreement with most other Pentecostal Churches." ( :confused: )
Lord, give us strength that we might share with others the fullness of your truth :crosseo:...

Peace,
Nick

P.S. To Xpycoctomos, congratulations on your ordination to Bishop! You'll be Metropolitan of the Midwestern North American Archdiocese of the One, Catholic, Uncorrupted and Truly Orthodox Apostolic Church in no time ;) (ok, so acronyms were never my forté...)

[Kolya]

You may be wondering how: Well, I once met Bishop Job of the OCA and as I went to get a blessing from him, instead of saying "Master Bless", I said very quickly and under my breath "make me a bishop" and he blessed me so.. there ya go.

Bless - Master John - Bless

[Irish Melkite]

have a look here (http://www.apostolic.org.au/). To quote their website,
"[The Apostolic Church (of Australia)] holds to all the early creeds of historic Christianity and is in perfect harmony with orthodox Christian doctrine. It is also in agreement with most other Pentecostal Churches." ( :confused: )




Nick,

I've never seen a Church website with less about belief (particularly a Pentecostal body). If I didn't know better, I'd have sworn I was looking at a corporate or governmental agency website. My favorite quote - bureaucratese at its best

The Apostolic Church is structured in such a way as to provide local assemblies to be connected to a cohesive corporate body while simultaneously embracing an individual, even unique, identity and expression of ministry

Wow :scratch:

Many years,

Neil

[Rilian]

Neil (who, despite his vow to avoid posting, couldn't pass up a reference to THEOCACNA, lest anyone be naive enough to believe it had legitimacy)

Neil, just admit you're off the wagon, you can't stop posting and there's really no reason to even offer token resistence in order to pretend that you can stop.

It will be better for all of us.

[Rilian]

By the way guys, I'm a bishop now so if you have any questions or needs some priests, I can get ya some.

As a prerequisite to establishing communion between our sees I need to find out where you stand on the Pateritsa controversey.

Do you use the bedpost, or have you accepted the soul destroying heresy of drapery rods?

[Emmanuel-A]

By the way guys, I'm a bishop now so if you have any questions or needs some priests, I can get ya some.

Congratulations, your eminence.

What diocese are you in charge of ? The metropolia of Duckburg ?

[Irish Melkite]

Neil, just admit you're off the wagon, you can't stop posting and there's really no reason to even offer token resistence in order to pretend that you can stop.

It will be better for all of us.

Your Blessedness,

I already posted my excuses for doing so - just penance me and move on :P - or I'll jump jurisdictions to Xpycoctomos; he promised that he would raise me to the dignity of Grand Ripidia Bearer, with the privilege of wearing crossed thuribles - so there :eek: !!!

Neil

[Rilian]

I'll jump jurisdictions to Xpycoctomos; he promised that he would raise me to the dignity of Grand Ripidia Bearer, with the privilege of wearing crossed thuribles - so there :eek: !!!l

I saw his ripidia and it looked like a frisbee duct taped to a broomstick.

[ExOrienteLux]

Your Blessedness,

I already posted my excuses for doing so - just penance me and move on :P - or I'll jump jurisdictions to Xpycoctomos; he promised that he would raise me to the dignity of Grand Ripidia Bearer, with the privilege of wearing crossed thuribles - so there :eek: !!!

Neil

You Blessedness, have you already forgotten that you've already broken away from the synods of both of those heresiarchs?

I, myself, have broken away from Rilian's church in protest over this protestantization and am incorporating, in Delaware, as The True Apostolic Orthodox Catholic Church of Upper Slobbovia - Transylvanian Rite, with the title of His Blessedness Patriarch and Grand Metropolitan Uber-Bishop Neil.

I beg Your Blessedness, don't return to communion with that ecumenicist heresiarch!

-Your servant, Philip, Archbishop of Northeastern Slobbovia and Mrzchvkstan.

[The Prokeimenon!]

If you guys don't settle down, I'll have you all defrocked!

Oh- By the way- I've become the Metropolitan of the Terrestrial Orthodox Church of Outer Space, which gives me canonical authority over all the Orthodox of the world. :priest:

Met. MOSES

[ExOrienteLux]

You claim to be Orthodox and yet wear a Latin mitre? ANATHEMA!!!

ORTHODOXIA I THANATOS!!!

[Mary of Bethany]

Hmmmm . . . .

methinks you guys are WAY too good at this. Frightening, it is. :P

Mary

[Xpycoctomos]

As a prerequisite to establishing communion between our sees I need to find out where you stand on the Pateritsa controversey.

Do you use the bedpost, or have you accepted the soul destroying heresy of drapery rods?

Sorry it has taken so long for me to reply. I was off doing really bishopy things. By the way Rilian, I have not only accepted the sould destroying heresy of drapery rods.... I prefer them! (What am I talking about?)

ExOreinte and Mosestheblack... when is our next Ecumenical Council? Can I be the primus inter pares again? I promise I'll do better at the whole "presiding in love thing" (sorry about your cat. I'm sure it's fur will grow back... some day :sorry: ).

His most holy Metropolitan Patriarch Revered Reverend with are really cool hat and totally canonical so don't question it John.

[The Prokeimenon!]

ExOreinte and Mosestheblack... when is our next Ecumenical Council? Can I be the primus inter pares again?

I'm sorry but I was forced to excommunicate all of you. The Most True and Only Holy True Orthodox True Church now consists only of myself and 3 of my cats (one of my cats was also excommunicated for embracing the heresy of beardlessness.)

Extraoecumenical Patriarch Metropolitan Right Very Most Reverend Father Brother MOSES, Metropolitan of Outer Space and all the Universe

[OrthodoxyUSA]

NO........

I beg you to reconsider!

Fogive me...