Is it right to call Christians "saints"

[Anti-Fear]

My friend is a member of a Christian group, often called a cult, called "Local Church" they and she refer to the other members in the group as "saints" is that right or wrong to call brothers and sisters saints?

[BBAS 64]

Good Day, Calmius

To call the believers ' Saints' is biblical.


1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:


Bill

[Bulldog]

Thanks for posting tat Bill, I knew there was some scripture that called Christians saints.

[Knight]

cal,

Why is this church referred to as a cult? Is there a docturnal issue that puts it into that camp?

[Tenorvoice]

RO 1:7 to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

RO 15:26 For Macedonia and Achaia have been pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem.

1CO 1:2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

Scripture give clear stating that we are saints if we are truley saved
peace

[LynneClomina]

a web search brought up that the "Local Church" is the group headed up by watchman nee and witness lee. i thought they were pretty orthodox? - Watchman Nee, anyways.

these might be of interest:

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/loca.html
http://www.local-church-cult.org/
http://www.lsm.org/ (Nee & Lee's publications site)

[Church Punk]

Good Day, Calmius

To call the believers ' Saints' is biblical.


1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:


Bill
DONE AND DONE :)

[Bevlina]

The only people who can be called 'saints' are those who completely follow Jesus and do the Will of God without question in all humility, and full belief which includes trust.(faith)
God comes first. His will comes first. These are the 'saints' of today. They follow Jesus.
Now...if you find a cult, or sect which is doing all of those things...you'll find these people are saints. They do not go after wordly wealth, and they do not go to war.
Many do not go to church. They are led by the Holy Spirit as the Bible states they would be.
Without going into detail, I would be a little sceptical of Watchman Nee.

[TomUK]

as long as it's saints with a small s.

[ChrisB]

as long as it's saints with a small s.

Are you saying there are two kinds of saints - "super saints" and "ordinary saints"?

[TomUK]

Lol no, but Paul uses the word saint with a small s in the bible to indicate bretheren. As long as calmius's friend is only using it in the sense of brothers in Christ then it's fine.

[Svt4Him]

Actually Paul didn't use the small s, our translators did.

And it's not like I'd be st. Vincent, while St. Vincent somehow has achieved a greater degree of sainthood, despite what some denominations believe.

[TomUK]

non-denominational, doesn't mean non-important, just non-legalistic.
I couldn't comment on how the bible should be translated. I was going on what is said in commentaries and by biblical scholars, eg. Scofield said 'A saint in the NT is not a sinless person but a sved sinner. It is though faith in the Lord Jesus Christ that a sinner becomes a saint."

[Serapha]

Are you saying there are two kinds of saints - "super saints" and "ordinary saints"?
Hi there!

:wave:

I heard a Tony Evans message today and he spoke about "saints"...


Old Testament saints
New Testament saints

and a new breed....


"secret service" saints... those wanting to serve secretly and not wanting to make a stand for Christianity...


It was for "humor", of course, as it isn't biblical... but I laughed...

~serapha~

[Polycarp1]

FWIW ---

"A saint is a sinner who recognizes that he is a sinner, and turns to Christ in repentance." All Christians are saints -- that's as firmly Biblical as "Jesus is Lord."

In many churches -- Catholics, Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans, and to a certain degree among Methodists and some Baptists -- there is recognition of certain saints, with the less liturgical groups restricting this to the major New Testament leaders, as exemplary individuals who get the capital "S." In other words, John the Beloved Disciple or Francis of Assisi is seen as someone whose example shows one how better to follow Christ, and in token of that, they're given recognition as St. John or St. Francis. Many churches set aside annual commemorations of particular people's life in Christ, outside Catholicism and Orthodoxy usually avoiding hanging the "big-S Saint" title on them -- ranging from St. Herman of Alaska among the Orthodox to John and Charles Wesley, to Martin Luther King Jr.

The point behind such stuff is not to make a distinction "these guys are saints and we're not" -- which is unscriptural -- but to pick out the best examples of Christian piety, wisdom, scholarship, steadfast faith, etc. as people who can be pointed to as good examples to follow.

[Caedmon]

Awesome post, Polycarp1... That's a good way to explain it. :)

[Rising_Suns]

notice how most of the scripture posted says that we are 'called to be' saints, not necessarily meaning that we 'are' saints.

[suzie]

Actually Christian is only used a total of 3 times in the Bible. Paul greeted and used the term saint to those who belonged to the body of Christ.
All who have been saved and belong to the body of believers are saints.

[Andry]

I think one of the reasons why we don't go around calling our Christian brothers, sisters, friends, or family "saint", as in, "Well hello, saint Bob, how are you?" is because it's not 'fashionable' today (at least in North America). Not too long ago, calling your work colleauges Mr., Miss., or Mrs. wasn't uncommon.

[jingwei]

"-and calls for the endurance of the saints" Revelation.
Saints are true CHristians, in my point of view.

[Rising_Suns]

"-and calls for the endurance of the saints" Revelation.
Saints are true CHristians, in my point of view.
mmmm, but how many "true christians" do we know? I would dare not even think to consider myself a Saint in the Catholic sense. The Church sees Saints as those who have lived exemplified Christian lives, ones who are models of what it means to humbly follow Christ. How can I compare myself to someone who has worked miracles, and suffered great tortures at the hands of anti-Christians all in the name of the Lord? They gave up this world, all their posessions, money, family, and simply sought God's will out of their shear love for Him, while expecting nothing in return. They did not seek peace of mind or an emotional high, but only sought to serve God. And through it all, they have come to a profound level of spiritual unification with God, one that few will ever experience this in this life.

What have we done compared to this? I would say most of us are marginal Christians, at best.

[jingwei]

In Revelation it is predicted Christians will be presecuted again. So those courageous enough will be true Christians and saints.

[suzie]

I dont know about you all, but I am a true Christian and a saint. It indicates spiritual union with Christ.

[Rising_Suns]

I dont know about you all, but I am a true Christian and a saint. It indicates spiritual union with Christ.
It must be nice. I am not nearly to the point I should be. Perhaps once I leave society and live in a monestary to devote myself completely to prayer for some time, maybe then I will begin to experience a small glimpse of true union with our Lord, the way the Saints experienced Him. I only pray the good Lord deems me worthy enough to reveal Himself to that extent to me.

[suzie]

Once you are saved, you belong. It isnt about moral purity, as it is about being united in Him.

[Rising_Suns]

Once you are saved, you belong. It isnt about moral purity, as it is about being united in Him.
I suppose that is where the wall of division between Catholics and Protestants begin. To us, union with God requires more than accepting Him at one point in our lives, but rather it's a life long process. I suppose it is nice to feel comfortable where you are at, but I don't know if I could live that way. My heart yearns for a deeper union with Him, as I know I still have so much more growing to do. Sometimes I feel as if I am a spiritual infant who just took his first step in life, and the more I discover about God the more I realise I do not understand, and the more I see how immensely dependent I am on God for everything.

Lord have mercy on this poor sinner.

[Caedmon]

I think that sin can put up walls between us and God, so I believe that union with God depends, at least partially, upon our pursuit of righteousness.

[Rising_Suns]

I think that sin can put up walls between us and God, so I believe that union with God depends, at least partially, upon our pursuit of righteousness.Yes most definately. There is always more to discover about our Lord, always room for more growth, more chairty, more humility. We should always humbly be willing to learn about each other's faith, openly with love.


If one believes themselves to be spiritually advanced, that ususally is a clear sign they are not. We are all merely children.

"Therefore, let him who thinks he is standing on solid ground, take heed not to fall"--(1 cor 10:12)

[suzie]

I am quite familiar with the Catholic stance as I was one for several years. That is why I am not wanting to dialogue with Catholics in Protestant forums. We can rarely agree on spiritual things in any detail format since our core doctrines are different.

Yes, too bad you cant be secure in knowing that you belong to the eternal kingdom. However I am not sure you understand what it is to live a Christian life. Hardly comfortable. But great joy and blessing.

[ShirChadash]

Forgive me if that has been touched upon in this thread -- I didn't read all of it before replying :blush:

This is one thing I am studying on, currently. Did you all know that the common term "saints" was used in the OT first? Deut 33:2, 1 Sam 2:9, Job 15:15, Psalms 16:3; 37:28; 50:5; 116:15. Prov 2:8, Daniel 7:21, to name some...

I haven't the time to add all the Scriptures and contexts here myself just now, but I wanted to add the references to the discussion :)


BBL!

[suzie]

thanks for the insight zimerah!

[Rising_Suns]

However I am not sure you understand what it is to live a Christian life. Hardly comfortable. But great joy and blessing.I think you meant a "Protestant" life, as Catholics are Christians too. Perhaps that was a slipup on your part, but if it wasn't, I would hope you could show me the same respoect I have shown you in this thread (you will know them by their fruits). In repsonse to that though, I know very much what it means to be Protestant. I have attended many Protestant Church's and worshipped right with them for many years. I can't say that I know everything there is to be Catholic though; if I did I would be a historical scholar and theological genius, heh. But I know enough to know that God wants much more from me, and so I have every reason to seek His face in all things to be more profoundly united with Him in this life for preparation for the next. Jesus Himself said that if we are lukewarm, He'd rather spit us out of His mouth, and so I have every reason to be an active participant in God's plan of salvation and avoid falling into difference.

Yes, too bad you cant be secure in knowing that you belong to the eternal kingdom.I live in the hope that God's goodness and mercy will fall on me, but I do not pressume my own salvation. That could potentially lead me to pride, as humility is one thing I have been working on for a while.

I am quite familiar with the Catholic stance as I was one for several years. That is why I am not wanting to dialogue with Catholics in Protestant forums. We can rarely agree on spiritual things in any detail format since our core doctrines are different.I see. I will refrain from posting here then. I apologize to everyone for side tracking the thread. May God's peace be with you always.

[Svt4Him]

I do not pressume my own salvation. That could potentially lead me to pride, as humility is one thing I have been working on for a while.

This whole line of reasoning can lead to pride as well, or one could be thankful that they are saved, instead of proud of it. Did the guy with Jesus get all proud after Jesus told him he'd be in paradise with Jesus? If you are constantly wondering if you are or aren't saved, you will be hesitant to tell anyone your testimony, and that is a powerful weapon.

[Rising_Suns]

If you are constantly wondering if you are or aren't saved, you will be hesitant to tell anyone your testimony, and that is a powerful weapon.

Hmmm, yes, but I do not constantly worry about whether I am saved. I thank God daily for His mercy and grace that He has given me, but still I would not pressume my own salvation. I just want to do God's will and become more in union with Him as I grow towards salvation in this life. A testimony can be just as powerfull when you can show how God is helping you towards your salvation.

Anyway, i fear I am getting into a debate now. I realize this is a huge dividing point between Prtoestants and Catholics, and I would hope that we could find a place to fellowship together, as we both have that fundamental commonality, one that is rooted in Christ. The Catholic Church sees Protestants as part of the body of Christ, and I would hope Protestants could see us the same way as well.

I apologize for bringing us way off topic. I should go.

[thaiv]

Many in this forum pointed out that it is alright to call Christians "saints" because the Bible calls them that. To make a distinction between "super" saints and "regular" saints is unbiblical. It is also unbiblical not to call ordinary Christians saints even if they were not "canonized" as such. Tradition is the reason for this confusion.

Earlier there was a little discussion to whether the "local church" was a cult/heretical. My response is no, because they acknowledge all the fundamental truths of the Bible. They beleive that God is one, yet triune, that Christ is both divine and human, and that all people who have believed into the Lord Jesus are Christian regardless of where they meet on Sunday. The confusion of whether the local church is heretical or orthodox came from misunderstandings of the diction that Lee/Nee used in their writings.

If there are any questions on these two subjects, I will be happy to respond.

Thx.