Why does Jesus Pray to himself?

[J3sus-Is-Alive]

God gave his only begotten son.....I THOUGHT JESUS WAS GOD! so how the heck did God give his son wouldnt that just be sending himself down.

And when Jesus prayed why would he pray to GOD if he was GOD who is he actually praying to.

[pumpkinsoftruth]

He is the son. There is the father, son, and holy spirit. Allthough they are all together GOD. Even though Jesus is GOD incarnated, GOD is still in heaven as the father as well because the son is on earth, the father in heaven. It is still all GOD, only GOD is able to do such a thing as be everywhere at once :) When Jesus was praying he was praying to the father.
Someone else want to comment, correct me if I am wrong.

[joculi]

He is the son. There is the father, son, and holy spirit. Allthough they are all together GOD. Even though Jesus is GOD incarnated, GOD is still in heaven as the father as well because the son is on earth, the father in heaven. It is still all GOD, only GOD is able to do such a thing as be everywhere at once :) When Jesus was praying he was praying to the father.
Someone else want to comment, correct me if I am wrong.
I believe you have hit the nail on the head! The concept of the Trinity is very difficult to grasp. Unfortunately, confusion over the nature of the Trinity has caused some Christians to leave their faith after not being able to answer questions such as "If Jesus is God, how could he pray to God?"

I do not claim to be an expert and in fact don't fully understand it myself. I don't think humans can fully grasp the concept of the Trinity. The best analogy I have read that was written by C.S. Lewis in "Mere Christianity." I will give a brief version of it here. I highly recommend all Christians read the book for the actual argument C.S. Lewis presents.

He uses the analogy of someone living on a two-dimensional world. In that world, people would know about squares. A square has only two dimensions (width and height) which fits right into the two-dimensional world. It would difficult or impossible for a two-dimensional world person to grasp the concept of a cube. A cube is, after all, a single object that is composed of six different squares (one for each side). Because the relationship between the six squares occurred in the third dimension, it would be incomprehensible to a person from a two-dimensional world. The Trinity is similar. It is three persons, (the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) in one (God). We cannot grasp how three persons can simultaneously be one anymore than a person from a two-dimensional world could grasp how six squares could be six squares and simultaneously a single object called a cube.

I hope this was helpful. Once again, please read "Mere Christianity" for a much better explanation.

[J3sus-Is-Alive]

alrighty thanx all!

[Pastor Frank]

The reason there are literally hundreds of Protestant denominations is that every few years someone with a Joseph Smith complex who decides that he has the need to prove himself superior to others by claiming that other churches have false teachings.After promoting themselves by loudly proclaiming their new revelations into the Bible.they sometimes gather together family,friends and weak-minded persons to start a new cult or movement,almost always claiming that those who don't agree with them are on a straight path to hell.

One of the newest fads in Christianity is to believe that Jesus is God.Of course those who refuse to accept this absurd belief are accused of not being Christians and that makes the ones making that hateful accusations feel truly superior which is what their new revelation is all about.

There really is absolutely no mystery or confusion here at all.The reason that Jesus kept praying to God is that He isn't God.The Bible is over-flowing with verses making it very clear that there are there persons in the trinity,God,the one who created everything,Jesus His Son who carries out assignments for His Father and the Holy Spirit which does work for God in the lives of believers.THEY ARE ONE IN PURPOSE BUT NOT IN FORM.In fact God didn't even send the Holy Spirit to the earth until after "his only begotten Son" whom He sent to the world was murdered.

With all the publicity that the Passion of the Christ has received,we can only hope that these superority-seekers who are running around with their brand new revelation into the Bible will stop trying to dupe Christians,as more and more people learn that some of the last words Jesus spoke before He died were,"my god why have you forsaken me."But if that's not confusing enough,try explaining to people who it was who was answeing all the prayers during the nine months Jesus was in Mary's womb if He is God.

Let's not try to confuse people with absurd "mysteries".Jesus is the only Son of God,fully divine and to be worshiped as our savior.There is no reason to start new theories that are denied by dozens of quotes from Jesus' own lips.

[Qyöt27]

I don't think humans can fully grasp the concept of the Trinity.
I would agree, for the most part. One problem really, is that Christianity suffers from a lack of philosophical backing (not to say there isn't any, and the arguments that exist do explain things very well). I had to study Hinduism in a philosophy course I took, and interestingly enough, practitioners of it believe it is a monotheism, but that the god they worship can appear in multiple places at the same time, in different forms (and each form has a different name, thus creating an image of a polytheism). So as far as humans being able to grasp the concept of God being in multiple places at once, it might be hard to grasp in a physical concept, but the concept of a deity being able to do such isn't something exclusive to our faith, and by looking at it philosophically, people who have faith in God shouldn't have a problem believing that while Christ and the Holy Spirit are still of the same divinity, they aren't of the same physical body. It's surprising sometimes how when looking at other religions, God will reveal something to us about what we believe that we didn't see before, or give us deeper understanding of Him. At least, it's been like that for me.

He uses the analogy of someone living on a two-dimensional world. In that world, people would know about squares. A square has only two dimensions (width and height) which fits right into the two-dimensional world. It would difficult or impossible for a two-dimensional world person to grasp the concept of a cube. A cube is, after all, a single object that is composed of six different squares (one for each side). Because the relationship between the six squares occurred in the third dimension, it would be incomprehensible to a person from a two-dimensional world. The Trinity is similar. It is three persons, (the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) in one (God). We cannot grasp how three persons can simultaneously be one anymore than a person from a two-dimensional world could grasp how six squares could be six squares and simultaneously a single object called a cube.

Once again, from that philosophy class, there is a book that addresses simply that abstract example that C.S. Lewis gave as well. The name of the book was "Flatland" by Edwin A. Abbott, a clergyman and mathematician, and it was originally published in 1884 (yes, I mean 1884). I haven't gotten around to reading it yet, but it has been highly recommended to me a few times.

[BjBarnett]

One of the newest fads in Christianity is to believe that Jesus is God.
newest fad? Catholics have been believing this for 2000 years.. thats hardly new nor a fad.

anyhow the best way i know to describe the trinity is Saint Patricks ....

imagine a 3 leaf clover each leaf is an individual but its all apart of the same clover :)

[JVAC]

The reason there are literally hundreds of Protestant denominations is that every few years someone with a Joseph Smith complex who decides that he has the need to prove himself superior to others by claiming that other churches have false teachings.After promoting themselves by loudly proclaiming their new revelations into the Bible.they sometimes gather together family,friends and weak-minded persons to start a new cult or movement,almost always claiming that those who don't agree with them are on a straight path to hell.

One of the newest fads in Christianity is to believe that Jesus is God.Of course those who refuse to accept this absurd belief are accused of not being Christians and that makes the ones making that hateful accusations feel truly superior which is what their new revelation is all about.

There really is absolutely no mystery or confusion here at all.The reason that Jesus kept praying to God is that He isn't God.The Bible is over-flowing with verses making it very clear that there are there persons in the trinity,God,the one who created everything,Jesus His Son who carries out assignments for His Father and the Holy Spirit which does work for God in the lives of believers.THEY ARE ONE IN PURPOSE BUT NOT IN FORM.In fact God didn't even send the Holy Spirit to the earth until after "his only begotten Son" whom He sent to the world was murdered.

With all the publicity that the Passion of the Christ has received,we can only hope that these superority-seekers who are running around with their brand new revelation into the Bible will stop trying to dupe Christians,as more and more people learn that some of the last words Jesus spoke before He died were,"my god why have you forsaken me."But if that's not confusing enough,try explaining to people who it was who was answeing all the prayers during the nine months Jesus was in Mary's womb if He is God.

Let's not try to confuse people with absurd "mysteries".Jesus is the only Son of God,fully divine and to be worshiped as our savior.There is no reason to start new theories that are denied by dozens of quotes from Jesus' own lips

Since when is Unorthodox Theology the same as PRE? St. Athanasius must be doing cartwheels in his grave.

Joculi said it quite well! I also recomend the Quicunque Vult (Athanasian Creed), for an old church explanation of the Trinity!

-James

[Bulldog]

Jesus prayes to God the Father, a seperate essence from God the Son. Jesus is God, but not the Father. That would be the Modalist heresy.

[Knight]

Jesus prayes to God the Father, a seperate essence from God the Son. Jesus is God, but not the Father. That would be the Modalist heresy.
God is one in essence. Three in person. That's the conventional terminology.

[rnmomof7]

The reason there are literally hundreds of Protestant denominations is that every few years someone with a Joseph Smith complex who decides that he has the need to prove himself superior to others by claiming that other churches have false teachings.After promoting themselves by loudly proclaiming their new revelations into the Bible.they sometimes gather together family,friends and weak-minded persons to start a new cult or movement,almost always claiming that those who don't agree with them are on a straight path to hell.

One of the newest fads in Christianity is to believe that Jesus is God.Of course those who refuse to accept this absurd belief are accused of not being Christians and that makes the ones making that hateful accusations feel truly superior which is what their new revelation is all about.

There really is absolutely no mystery or confusion here at all.The reason that Jesus kept praying to God is that He isn't God.The Bible is over-flowing with verses making it very clear that there are there persons in the trinity,God,the one who created everything,Jesus His Son who carries out assignments for His Father and the Holy Spirit which does work for God in the lives of believers.THEY ARE ONE IN PURPOSE BUT NOT IN FORM.In fact God didn't even send the Holy Spirit to the earth until after "his only begotten Son" whom He sent to the world was murdered.

With all the publicity that the Passion of the Christ has received,we can only hope that these superority-seekers who are running around with their brand new revelation into the Bible will stop trying to dupe Christians,as more and more people learn that some of the last words Jesus spoke before He died were,"my god why have you forsaken me."But if that's not confusing enough,try explaining to people who it was who was answeing all the prayers during the nine months Jesus was in Mary's womb if He is God.

Let's not try to confuse people with absurd "mysteries".Jesus is the only Son of God,fully divine and to be worshiped as our savior.There is no reason to start new theories that are denied by dozens of quotes from Jesus' own lips.

This is the Mormon theology of polytheism and outside the creedal Christian beliefs

[pumpkinsoftruth]

Pastor Frank, I dont know where you are getting the Jesus is not GOD from. GOD is the trinity, GOD is all of them together and each one individually. GOD is the son, the father, and the holy spirit. Jesus is GOD incarnated, he was praying to the father, but they are still all GOD. As I said before only GOD can do such a thing as be everywhere and all 3 at once, he is not human Pastor Frank, he is not bound by our laws and physics, he is not bound by what little we understand. He can be in heaven and on earth and he was. It is something that cannot be fully understood because there is no good example of it in all of nature as far as I know, if you can think of one tell me.
Tell me when Jesus said "I am not GOD", and I might believe you.(as long as its biblical). You know why thats not biblical, because he never said that. Also you appear to be confused as to why Jesus said "my god why have you forsaken me."
He said that because in that instant he took in all the sin of the world and all the sin that was going to be done (as long as we ask for forgiveness and repent). He took that all in making him completely seperated from the father for that instant. Can you imagine what he must have gone through? To be in so much pain and then take in all the sin of the world and all the evil? To be completely seperated from the father for that little amount of time with all that pain. He had to do it, he was the perfect sacrifice. Just as in the old testament sacrifices were made to make up for sin, Jesus was the lamb who was slain. He died that day taking in all the sin and allowing us to be forgiven today. GOD died for us, we do not deserve his forgiveness and love, but he gives it out anyways. He had to become completely seperated from himself and the father in order to be the sacrifice. He is holy and almighty, and there was too much sin in the world for animal sacrifices to make up for, so he gave himself up going through all that pain so that we might be saved. GOD the ruler of all, died a brutal death for us. To say he is not GOD, to try to devalue his sacrifice for us, is wrong.

[rnmomof7]

God is one in essence. Three in person. That's the conventional terminology.

Perhaps easier to understand is 3 persons in one being :>)

[Flynmonkie]

I always thought of the Trinity as God, The Holy Spirit and Jesus. All representing God. Jesus was the Flesh, The Holy Spirit our Guidance and God the Ultimate Control. But they are all God.
This is new age thinking? Ok I am really confused now.:scratch:

[Knight]

Perhaps easier to understand is 3 persons in one being :>)
That works too.

I was just speaking of the terminology involved. The term essence has a broader meaning and connotation than "person." Therefore, it would not be accurate to say the God has multiple essences since the term has a much deeper meaning.

Example:
I am in essence a human. That is my basic nature.

[Knight]

I always thought of the Trinity as God, The Holy Spirit and Jesus. All representing God. Jesus was the Flesh, The Holy Spirit our Guidance and God the Ultimate Control. But they are all God.
This is new age thinking? Ok I am really confused now.:scratch:
Jesus is not merely flesh. Remember he has two natures one human and one divine.

[Bulldog]

Perhaps easier to understand is 3 persons in one being :>)

Yep, instead of getting mixed up with me using the wrong terminology.

[Knight]

Yep, instead of getting mixed up with me using the wrong terminology.
You're young.
We'll forgive you.......... This time. :)

[rnmomof7]

I always thought of the Trinity as God, The Holy Spirit and Jesus. All representing God. Jesus was the Flesh, The Holy Spirit our Guidance and God the Ultimate Control. But they are all God.
This is new age thinking? Ok I am really confused now.:scratch:

I do not know if I am reading you correctly or not.

There was a heresy in the early church that the Holy Spirit and Jesus and the Father are all just different forms of God .


Monarchianism--Undivided unity and sovereignty (monarchia) of God--
***This viewpoint flourished in the 3rd century among eastern and western Christians.

Dynamic Monarchianism
Jesus a human who became a God--
Modalistic Monarchianism
Argued that the Trinity is one God with different modes of divine action rather than distinct persons.

[pumpkinsoftruth]

I think some of us are getting caught up in the wording of it all. Here is what I posted in my last post.

GOD is the trinity, GOD is all of them together and each one individually. GOD is the son, the father, and the holy spirit. Jesus is GOD incarnated, he was praying to the father, but they are still all GOD. As I said before only GOD can do such a thing as be everywhere and all 3 at once, he is not a human Pastor Frank, he is not bound by our laws and physics, he is not bound by what little we understand. He can be in heaven and on earth and he was.

[JVAC]

In case anyone was wanted this, here is the orthodox teaching straight from the early church (I think 400's, correct me if I am wrong). I like how it explains things, but I am a traditionalist ;) .

Quicunque Vult, accepted everywhere your soul wants to be :D .

Quicunque Vult
(Athanasian Creed)


Whoever wants to be saved should above all cling to the catholic faith.

Whoever does not guard it whole and inviolable will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith: We worship one God in trinity and the Trinity in unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the divine being.

For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Spirit is still another.

But the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, coeternal in majesty.

What the Father is, the Son is, and so is the Holy Spirit.

Uncreated is the Father; uncreated is the Son; uncreated is the Spirit.

The Father is infinite; the Son is infinite; the Holy Spirit is infinite.

Eternal is the Father; eternal is the Son; eternal is the Spirit:

And yet there are not three eternal beings, but one who is eternal;

as there are not three uncreated and unlimited beings, but one who is uncreated and unlimited.

Almighty is the Father; almighty is the Son; almighty is the Spirit:

And yet there are not three almighty beings, but one who is almighty.

Thus the Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God:

And yet there are not three gods, but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord; the Son is Lord; the Holy Spirit is Lord:

And yet there are not three lords, but one Lord.

As Christian truth compels us to acknowledge each distinct person as God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten;

the Son was neither made nor created, but was alone begotten of the Father;

the Spirit was neither made nor created, but is proceeding from the Father and the Son.

Thus there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three spirits.

And in this Trinity, no one is before or after, greater or less than the other;

but all three persons are in themselves, coeternal and coequal; and so we must worship the Trinity in unity and the one God in three persons.

Whoever wants to be saved should think thus about the Trinity.

It is necessary for eternal salvation that one also faithfully believe that our Lord Jesus Christ became flesh.

For this is the true faith that we believe and confess: That our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son, is both God and man.

He is God, begotten before all worlds from the being of the Father, and he is man, born in the world from the being of his mother --

existing fully as God, and fully as man with a rational soul and a human body;

equal to the Father in divinity, subordinate to the Father in humanity.

Although he is God and man, he is not divided, but is one Christ.

He is united because God has taken humanity into himself; he does not transform deity into humanity.

He is completely one in the unity of his person, without confusing his natures.

For as the rational soul and body are one person, so the one Christ is God and man.

He suffered death for our salvation.

He descended into hell and rose again from the dead.

He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

At his coming all people shall rise bodily to give an account of their own deeds.

Those who have done good will enter eternal life,

those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith. One cannot be saved without believing this firmly and faithfully.
-James

[LynneClomina]

I always thought of the Trinity as God, The Holy Spirit and Jesus. All representing God. Jesus was the Flesh, The Holy Spirit our Guidance and God the Ultimate Control. But they are all God.
This is new age thinking? Ok I am really confused now.:scratch:
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

[Flynmonkie]

I do not know if I am reading you correctly or not.

There was a heresy in the early church that the Holy Spirit and Jesus and the Father are all just different forms of God .


Monarchianism--Undivided unity and sovereignty (monarchia) of God--
***This viewpoint flourished in the 3rd century among eastern and western Christians.

Dynamic Monarchianism
Jesus a human who became a God--
Modalistic Monarchianism
Argued that the Trinity is one God with different modes of divine action rather than distinct persons.
OK people you have really done it now I am totally confused here.....I sure hope that I am not saying something that can be confused with Heresy!!!! And I surely do not want to say it in the wrong manner when I mean something entirely different! So help me out here - I have never been asked this question!

You all are so much more educated on all this terminology.
Bottom line - 3 persons in one works for me. Jesus was God in Human form but distinctly different....he did not become God, I believe he was God. I think UGH!:sigh: Don't beat me!;)

Here is what I agree with -



One of the most important teachings of Christianity is the concept of the Trinity, the belief that God is one God, but exists in three Persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. However, the Bible does not offer an explanation of this concept so much as a presentation of it. It assumes a triune God but does not try to “prove” the Trinity.

In 2 Thessalonians, Paul seeks to enrich his readers’ understanding of their new life in Christ by telling them about works done on their behalf by all three Persons of the Godhead. These same benefits are ours as believers today:

• The Father has selected us for salvation, loves us, and gives us consolation and hope (2 Thess. 2:13, 16).

• The Son shares His glory with us and provides comfort and stability in the faith (2 Thess. 2:14, 16).

• The Spirit purifies (“sanctifies”) us and develops our faith (2 Thess. 2:13).



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[Utah Knight]

Jesus does not pray to himself he prays to his father this is shown in the lords prayer my father who art in heaven