Preterism and Reformed Theology

[Caedmon]

Is preterism predominantly accepted in Reformed circles? Do most Calvinists assent to it? How does preterism "fit in" with Reformed thought?

[Ozarkpreterist]

Humblejoe,

Check out this link to see what John Calvin himself thought about the preterist interpretation of scripture.

http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/c/calvin-john.html

[Caedmon]

That's an informative site, Ozark, but the last two quotes where he claims the Earth neither rotates nor revolves are rather disturbing. :scratch:

[Ozarkpreterist]

Originally posted by humblejoe
That's an informative site, Ozark, but the last two quotes where he claims the Earth neither rotates nor revolves are rather disturbing. :scratch:

Humblejoe,

Hey, it was the sixteenth century. I am sure some of our current scientific views will seem laughable 400 years from now.

By the way, I have been "accused" of being a Calvinist before, and I did not consider it an insult.

And did you know that R.C. Sproul is apparently a partial preterist? I have his "New Reformed Study Bible," and in it Sproul speaks of Futurism and Preterism with equal respect.

Ozark

[Patmosman_sga]

The prevailing view in Reformed Christianity is what might be called "partial preterist postmillennialism." Others in the Reformed camp, however, have lately become "full preterists," much to the consternation of their "partial" colleagues.

Reformed Christianity, as it has evolved over the centuries, has become a hard-rational interpretation of the faith. This "head-centered" approach has had an adverse effect on how Reformed churches view worship and the sacraments. Apostolic Christianity, as made clear in the Church's most ancient liturgies, viewed worship from the very beginning as a profoundly eschatological act. To join with fellow believers in the worship of the Triune God was to join with the great company of the saints and martyrs, angels and archangels, cherubim and seraphim around the throne of God, experiencing in their midst a grand foretaste of the life to come. The early Church understood, and has passed this understanding down through the ages, that to worship was to be in touch with the "end" toward which all of history was moving.

The Anglo/Catholic/Orthodox tradition has never forgotten this, so those of us in that tradition tend to look with humble pity upon our Reformed brethren as they argue over eschatology and "end time prophecy" in a context totally divorced from worship.

If you really want to understand what the Book of Revelation is all about, try comparing it with the historic liturgies of the Church (particularly the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom) and see if you don't notice some striking similarities.

[GW]

Originally posted by Patmosman_sga
To join with fellow believers in the worship of the Triune God was to join with the great company of the saints and martyrs, angels and archangels, cherubim and seraphim around the throne of God, experiencing in their midst a grand foretaste of the life to come. The early Church understood, and has passed this understanding down through the ages, that to worship was to be in touch with the "end" toward which all of history was moving.

The Anglo/Catholic/Orthodox tradition has never forgotten this, so those of us in that tradition tend to look with humble pity upon our Reformed brethren as they argue over eschatology and "end time prophecy" in a context totally divorced from worship.

A fully preterist view wouldn't change this liturgical presentation of worship -- rather, it affirms and strengthens it. Of course it substitutes HEAVEN for "end" (since there is no true end to history or the Church or the cosmology -- Eph 3:21).


Originally posted by Patmosman_sga
If you really want to understand what the Book of Revelation is all about, try comparing it with the historic liturgies of the Church (particularly the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom) and see if you don't notice some striking similarities.

I agree with you about the liturgical emphasis of Revelation's teaching. This does not preclude a fully preterist perspective for the Church. Rather, a fully preterist perspective reinforces such understanding, world without end.

Incidentally, Chrysostom did slip one fully preterist statement into his liturgy:

"Having in remembrance, therefore, this saving commandment [to celebrate the Eucharist], and ALL THOSE THINGS WHICH HAVE COME TO PASS FOR US: The Cross, the Grave, the Resurrection on the third day, the Ascension into heaven, the Session at the right hand, AND THE SECOND AND GLORIOUS ADVENT'

- St.Chrysostom: divine liturgy

[Patmosman_sga]

When I speak of the "end," I have in mind "completion" or "outcome," not "cessation." History "as we know it" comes to an "end." But that can be an everyday occurrence since the "world" tomorrow will not be the same as the "world" today. That is the whole point, indeed the "end," of living for the kingdom of God, rather than the kingdom of this world. Only the kingdom of God lasts forever. Earthly kingdoms rise and fall and God himself has established their tenure beforehand.

In worship, we are participating in the kingdom of God in its fullest sense. Thus, we are partakers in that which shall last forever. Thus, we sing, "World without end. Amen." Inasmuch as we have experienced and do experience in our midst the full and complete salvation that has come about as a result of Christ's death and resurrection, we can and do affirm in worship that Christ's "second and glorious advent" has "come to pass for us." That is one of my favorite portions of the liturgy, BTW.

As the old saying goes, "When will the Lord return? Next Sunday, in the Eucharist!"

[Caedmon]

Patmosman_sga, I asked for information about Reformed eschatology, not a cloaked tirade against Reformed thought.

I request that you don't turn this thread into a Reformed/Arminian debate. It has a legitimate purpose.