Prayers to Saints

[MORTANIUS]

I am wondering if anyone can properly explain to me why Saints are prayed to in Orthodoxy?

I realize that many have stated that the Saints are intercessors, and even how the example of JOB is used to stress this. However, JOB was a living intercessor. There are no examples of Intercessors in scriptures that were deceased.

Furthermore, why is it that specific Saints are to be prayed to (or asked to pray as intercessors). Such examples are St Cyprian who is prayed to for protection against magic, or St Christopher who is prayed to for protection in travelling.

Why are Saints organized in a fashion such as this? Shouldn't we be praying to Jesus Christ directly?

[minasoliman]

We always ask to pray for one another.

There's always this confusion when we say "pray to saints," as if there's some worshipping going on. I personally don't like to us "praying to saints," but call it whatever you like to call it as long as the right interpretation is given.

Talking to St. Christopher or St. Cyprian should be no different than talking to you asking you to pray for me (or intercede on my behalf) so that I may do well in school, or do well in any endeavor. I call it more of a request. "I request to you, St. Christopher, that you may pray for me in my travels, since you also have travelled across waters." That sort of stuff. For another example, since St. Augustine went through some tough times questioning his beliefs and then finally converted, I always request that he may pray for me through those tough times against pluralists and atheists, as well as pray for them. If I murdered someone, I'd rather ask for someone who repented from his murderous deeds than someone who never even thought of the sin.

It just strengthens the unity of the Church and the common communion with one another so that we may be one with and in Christ, both in heaven and on earth, the living and the departed, who are all members of Christ's one Holy Apostolic and Universal Church.

God bless.

[erinipassi]

Hi Mortanius,


I've posted the answer to this question in a thread called "kissing" in this forum few months ago, so you will see the answer here identical. But in order to understand the answer, let's look from the beginning at the concept of a Saint.

First of all, my question to you is, are all Christians everywhere on the same spiritual level or are there different levels of Spirituality? In the Coptic Orthodox, a saint is a person who has entered the deepest level of spirituality and achieved a very deep level of a closeness with God through their faithfulness.

There are many examples of this in the bible and one particular example is Elisha. He was a prophet and a saint because of his extraordinary closeness with God, after he died, Elisha’s bones performed a miracle. In 2 kings 13: 20-21, it says: “Then Elisha died, and they buried him. And the raiding bands from Moab invaded the land in the spring of the year.So it was, as they were burying a man, that suddenly they spied a band of raiders; and they put the man in the tomb of Elisha; and when the man was let down and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived and stood on his feet.”

Why did Elisha’s bones perform miracles? It’s because God glorifies himself in his saints. Our Lord said, “If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor.” (Jn 12:26)

When you come so close to the light of Jesus, as the saints have come, the light of Jesus transfigures you totally. Why everyone then is not a Saint? It’s because of the level of our obedience to God. The saints were so obedient to God in everything, even at the point of death and that is why he gives them a special honour. An example of this is in Revelations with the 24 elders, not only did they have crowns but were sitting on a throne as a special honour from God. “And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God” (Revelations 11: 16, Revelations 4: 4)

These crowns and thrones are not just for anyone, we see in comparison for example the faithful who are standing before God’s throne, “After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God” (Revelations 7: 9-11). So then it tells you there are different levels of spirituality and those with the highest spiritual levels are called saints and have a special honour.

This brings us to the next point, if a Saint dies, does God consider them dead? Jesus answers this question about what happens to a person when he dies. “The same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Him and asked Him, saying: "Teacher, Moses said that if a man dies, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. Now there were with us seven brothers. The first died after he had married, and having no offspring, left his wife to his brother. Likewise the second also, and the third, even to the seventh. Last of all the woman died also. Therefore, in the resurrection, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had her.’ Jesus answered and said to them, ‘You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” (Matt 22: 23-32)

Two things Jesus mentions, first that we will become like angels. Of course, to God we are above the angels, But our role will be similar to those of the angels. St Paul says that, “Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?” (Hebrew 1: 14) Secondly, Jesus mentions Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Now we all know that they died long time ago, but Jesus tells us that they are living in the presence of God, because to God they are not dead. They are very much alive in God’s presence.

So then, when you serve a brother or sister in the name of Jesus on this earth, you will continue to serve your brothers and sisters who are on earth even after you die. The Saints our highest examples of those who served faithfully and were obedient to God, not only are they alive but they are part of your heavenly family. We, on earth, go to our brother or sisters in Christ and ask them to pray for us, as Mina pointed out. Well, not only do we have a praying family on earth but we have a praying family in Heaven. The saints are your family in heaven. So when you ask their intercession, it’s the same as asking someone here to pray for you. Again, we remember what St Paul says, “Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?” (Hebrew 1: 14)

There are good Coptic websites if you would like to read more about it:
http://www.suscopts.org/messages/lectures/misclecture6.pdf
http://www.suscopts.org/messages/lectures/misclecture5.pdf

Please feel free to ask any questions you like about this topic. :)

Blessings and love
erini