Orthodox Epistemology

[Photios]

I have been trying to figure a very basic question on this subject out since I was a catachumen. Maybe everyone here can help. I have been wondering whether the Church would be best described as Rationalist or Empiricist. I have read excerpts from St. Justin Popovich and St. Isaac the Syrian on epistemology, but they don't address this question at all.

Remember what I mean by Rationalist and Empircist:

Rationalist-believes that we are born knowing things or can arrive at knowledge without sensory experience. Doesn't tend to view thought as a form of experience.

Empiricist-believes that we can know nothing without sensory experience of some sort. Tends to classify thought as a form of experience

I have my own theory here, but I would like to see what you all say before I put that up as a suggestion, especially as it may be an inferior version of something somebody else has already said.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

May I first ask why this is important? I don't see the value in over categorizing Orthodoxy, and many theolgians and saints have rejected trying to put things in groups. Maybe that is why you can't find much on it...

[Photios]

I am not trying to categorize the Church. I am merely seeking clarification, as to the Orthodox understanding. These two ideas can't really be mixed, as if you add the slightest bit of Rationalism to Empiricism, you have a weak form of Rationalism.

As to its importance, I suppose I can plead curiosity. I had to right a paper on my epistemic beliefs and began searching for the Church's view. I doubt there is nothing on it as this is a major issue in Plato and Aristotle, whom many of the Fathers loved very much. I would be willing to guess that there may not be much readily available in English due to a lack of interest or basic ignorance of what epistemology is for most people.

I have a constant tickle in my mind over this, and am just looking to assuage it.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Orthodoxy is about experience: Experiencing God. I assume this is Empiricist.

[icxn]

Read this:

http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b02.en.orthodox_psychotherapy.06.htm

icxn

[Photios]

I see your point, but Rationalism doesn't necessarily deny learning through experience. The idea is that you are born with at least some knowledge, or can learn some things without experience.

I am not questioning the focus of the Faith, just a seeking the answer to a small question. Is there anything that we are essentially created knowing, or do we have to have some sort of experience to know something? This question gets bigger when you consider how we first come to believe, no matter what we are speaking about belief in.

[Photios]

Read this:

http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b02.en.orthodox_psychotherapy.06.htm

icxn

I have read this before. I refer to it in the original post, though I forgot to mention St Gregory. I love this article, but if it answers my question, I missed it.