What about those who die without baptism?

[Jason of Wyoming]

What does Orthodoxy teach about the status of salvation for the non-orthodox (or even the non-christian)?

[Orthosdoxa]

The official answer: "We don't know".

AFAIK, we do not have the ways around it like the Catholics, like baptism of desire and such. We can only trust in God's mercy and pray for those departed.

[Jason of Wyoming]

That's kind of what I thought. Do you know of official sources for this?

[Astronaut]

ON THE NATURE OF HEAVEN AND HELL ACCORDING TO THE HOLY FATHERS
(http://orthodoxcanada.org/TEMP/point_of_faith_16.htm)

[Ellethidhren]

The thief on the cross died without baptism. Jesus saw his heart and told him "this day, you shall be with me in paradise."
The act of baptism is just an outward public declartion of an inward repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Savior.
Men can't see the heart. Jesus can. Men can see an outward sign called baptism that a person is washed clean of their sins, by faith in Christ.
So. You don't get baptized to GET saved, you get baptized because you HAVE BEEN saved through faith in Christ.
Acts 2:38 is very clear. REPENT and be baptized.
1Peter 3:21 is also very clear on that.

[InnerPhyre]

I'm not sure the Orthodox are too keen on the often used Protestant slogan "get saved." :D

[Photini]

The thief on the cross died without baptism. Jesus saw his heart and told him "this day, you shall be with me in paradise."
The act of baptism is just an outward public declartion of an inward repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Savior.
Men can't see the heart. Jesus can. Men can see an outward sign called baptism that a person is washed clean of their sins, by faith in Christ.
So. You don't get baptized to GET saved, you get baptized because you HAVE BEEN saved through faith in Christ.
Acts 2:38 is very clear. REPENT and be baptized.
1Peter 3:21 is also very clear on that.
Being baptized is to die with Christ. THe thief on the cross literally died and suffered with Christ. That was his baptism.

[Photios]

We do not know how it happens, but many of the Church Fathers believed it possible. Especially for the Pre-Christians, who were preached to by the Forerunner as well as Christ Himself. For example, Plato, Aristotle, Thales, and Heraclitus are all mentioned as being considered saints by some of the Fathers.

Essentially, it boils down to the fact that Salvation is a Mystery. God takes care of this and it is not something that we can understand or define at all.

[Jason of Wyoming]

Astronaut,

Interesting link. Who is Archbishop Lazar Puhalo?

[Astronaut]

Astronaut,

Interesting link. Who is Archbishop Lazar Puhalo?
Archbishop Lazar Puhalo is a retired hierarch of the Orthodox Church in America. He is Abbott of New Ostrog Monastery in Dewdney, British Columbia, Canada.

[Orthosdoxa]

The thief on the cross died without baptism. Jesus saw his heart and told him "this day, you shall be with me in paradise."
The act of baptism is just an outward public declartion of an inward repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Savior.
Men can't see the heart. Jesus can. Men can see an outward sign called baptism that a person is washed clean of their sins, by faith in Christ.
So. You don't get baptized to GET saved, you get baptized because you HAVE BEEN saved through faith in Christ.
Acts 2:38 is very clear. REPENT and be baptized.
1Peter 3:21 is also very clear on that.

Dear Elle,

Welcome to TAW. :wave:

What you have espoused is contrary to Orthodoxy, and more specifically the consistent witness of Scripture and Tradition.

We love welcoming guests here, but please make sure that you are not breaking TAW rules when you post.

LK

[Ellethidhren]

Pardon me. I didn't realize I was in a Eastern Orthodox forum. Obviously, I'm not Eastern Orthodox, but rather from a non-denominational Christian church.
I'll be careful what group is posting the next time I answer to something.

[Orthosdoxa]

No pardon necessary, just making sure you were aware. Please, feel free to join us in any thread you like! :wave:

[Matrona]

Being baptized is to die with Christ. THe thief on the cross literally died and suffered with Christ. That was his baptism.

So did the other thief.

[Dust and Ashes]

So did the other thief.

Minus the repenting part.

[Matrona]

Minus the repenting part.

Oh yes, I know. I just wanted to point out that simply dying next to Christ was not baptism. The wise thief received a baptism of tears.