Birthdays

[brentsbaby612]

* pokes head in hopeing she won't get hit with eggs or something*^_^

My daughter just had her 5th birthday on saturday. We had a big party, with cake and presents. Pretty much your modern day birthday party. Anyway, I have two questions. Is any of this of pagan origin, I searched it on the net and did find anything to help. Also, should I have not done it on the sabbath? After it was all done I was exhausted, felt like I didn't get much rest.

[Henaynei]

* pokes head in hopeing she won't get hit with eggs or something*^_^

My daughter just had her 5th birthday on saturday. We had a big party, with cake and presents. Pretty much your modern day birthday party. Anyway, I have two questions. Is any of this of pagan origin, I searched it on the net and did find anything to help. Also, should I have not done it on the sabbath? After it was all done I was exhausted, felt like I didn't get much rest.*Henaynei checks - *darn* fresh out of rottenhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15_1_55.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001)

Happy Birthday mom (you did all the hard work the day she was born and YOU deserve the congratulations!! Good Job!)

As to the other issues you bring up:If you are at that level yet many of the activities you mention would not be in keeping with keeping the Shabbat. If you have not yet grown to that point then the family comradire and joy might well be said to be a part of Shabbat.

The activities to which I am referring are the tearing of paper to open presents, and making of the party refreshments, the decorating etc.

As for pagan origin, all I can say there is that every birthday mentioned in the bible was of a pagan and never once is the date of birth of one fo G-d's people mentioned. The birthday "partys" also were not anything you'd want to send your teenage daughter to ;)

So, at this stage I would say it would be something you and your husband agreed to and were comfortable with - next time get some help and don't try to do it all yourself!!!

Blessed Natal Rememberance little one!!:pink:

[simchat_torah]

Many people tend to go overboard with the declaration of all things pagan.

Annual rememberances are mentioned throughout the bible. As well, ages are known. Thus we can only assume the people at least knew their birthday. Whether it was celebrated or not is simply not mentioned. I hate when arguments are built upon *lack of proof*, but quite simply, this is what is done when birthday celebrations are declared 'pagan'.

There simply isn't any proof of origins or HaShem declaring such. If anything, we know that birthdates were recognized as ages of people were known. Beyond that, it is purely speculation without verification.


shalom,
yafet

[Henaynei]

Many people tend to go overboard with the declaration of all things pagan.

Annual rememberances are mentioned throughout the bible. As well, ages are known. Thus we can only assume the people at least knew their birthday. Whether it was celebrated or not is simply not mentioned. I hate when arguments are built upon *lack of proof*, but quite simply, this is what is done when birthday celebrations are declared 'pagan'.

There simply isn't any proof of origins or HaShem declaring such. If anything, we know that birthdates were recognized as ages of people were known. Beyond that, it is purely speculation without verification.


shalom,
yafetIt is just as likely that all persons born in a particular year had the same general birthdate, just as trees and kosher animals did ;) LOL At least there is example of that notion in scripture ;)

Your argument is just as much building on "lack of proof" as mine :P

And in mine I included a caveat!

[simchat_torah]

It is just as likely that all persons born in a particular year had the same general birthdate, just as trees and kosher animals did ;) LOL At least there is example of that notion in scripture ;)
Oh? Where is an example of this notion?

Your argument is just as much building on "lack of proof" as mine
Not quite... for two reasons:
1) I'm not making a claim (ie: Birthdays are pagan). I'm merely stating that to declare either way without 'proof positive' would be building upon an invisible foundation.
2) As well, it seems the evidence is stacked against the 'birthdays are pagan' in that those in the Bible had their ages recorded. More over, G-d does not command against such... and even further, merely because others of another culture celebrated their birthday does not make it a celebration unto a deity (paganism). Not one of these steps is proven!

So... no, not "just as much".


-Yafet

[Henaynei]

Oh? Where is an example of this notion?

[/font][/font]
Not quite... for two reasons:
1) I'm not making a claim (ie: Birthdays are pagan). I'm merely stating that to declare either way without 'proof positive' would be building upon an invisible foundation.
2) As well, it seems the evidence is stacked against the 'birthdays are pagan' in that those in the Bible had their ages recorded. More over, G-d does not command against such... and even further, merely because others of another culture celebrated their birthday does not make it a celebration unto a deity (paganism). Not one of these steps is proven!

So... no, not "just as much".


-Yafet
Dear and generous Yafet,

Whoa!! LOL

Do go back and read my first post - I did not contend that birthdays are pagan. I *only* mentioned them (in response to a question) *as they appear in scripture* AND said it was individually up to her and her hubby..... really, I think you are arguing with the wrong face here :)

b'Shalom
Henaynei

[simchat_torah]

Henaynei...

I wasn't arguing to you specifically... if you read my first post. It was you who thought there was an argument between us. I was addressing the issue that was brought up by the OP! hehehe.. then you replied to me as if I was in contention with what you had to say. Go ahead, take a look... I didn't address you in my first post, quote you, or even mention your name! Instead, you quoted me and addressed me in the following post.

Dear Henny... please don't pin on me what I haven't started.

-Yafet

[Henaynei]

Dear and patient Yafet,

You, again, are correct and I, again, am in error.
I apologize ;) Please forgive me.....

In my defense I will say that I am home sick (severe headache, nausea and dizzy) and can't stay in bed too long as this causes my back to hurt and on this stomach I dare not take any meds to deal with THAT - so I end up at the keyboard in less than perfect condition and with considerable less than my full compliment of senses ;)

[simchat_torah]

You, again, are correct

*cough* what's that? *cough* ;)

Now, if I could only have you teach my wife how to say that. ;)

[Henaynei]

*cough* what's that? *cough* ;)

Now, if I could only have you teach my wife how to say that. ;)Maybe she just has to be as sick and druged up as I am :sick:

[brentsbaby612]

Thank you both for your responses!!!Whew!! You guys scaried me there for a minute! Just picture me grabing my hair and screaming NOT AGAIN!!!!..LOL!

Many people tend to go overboard with the declaration of all things pagan.
:scratch:Well, I don't really think I'm going overboard...I just wanted to make sure! You never know in todays society;)! And since it is unknown, I would feel better if I knew of some hebrew traditions to incorporate into it. Are there any?(I think birthday parties are mostly for children anyways!)
Maybe she just has to be as sick and druged up as I am
^_^ Don't we all!!!

Shalom/Erin

[Talmidah]

Thank you both for your responses!!!Whew!! You guys scaried me there for a minute! Just picture me grabing my hair and screaming NOT AGAIN!!!!..LOL!


:scratch:Well, I don't really think I'm going overboard...I just wanted to make sure! You never know in todays society;)! And since it is unknown, I would fell better if I knew of some hebrew traditions to incorporate into it. Are there any?(I think birthday parties are mostly for children anyways!)

^_^ Don't we all!!!

Shalom/Erin
In our community, it is custom on one's birthday to do something for others. This is something I would like to more institute in our family. For now, my children get to choose what meal we will have on their birthday (if it falls on Shabbat, we will do it on Sunday). They also make treats (ie cookies, cakes, muffins, etc) for the oneg after services.

I'm looking forward to hearing other people's ideas!

[Henaynei]

Here are some very American Jewish birthday things ;)

Dr. Seuss: Happy Birthday to You - Yom Huledet Sameach (http://www.littleisrael.com/product_info.php?cPath=140&products_id=332&osCsid=f7565b7306108b43c21bc2967b329c5c)

Loot Bags "yom Huledet Sameach" (http://www.israelsjudaica.com/InfoPage.asp?ISBN=ARTTK7722)

Kabbalistic artistic rendering of "Yom Huledet Sameach" with Kabbalistic explaination of the letters (http://www.hebrewletters.com/item.cfm?itemid=1023)

Happy Birthday song - in Hebrew

Yom Huledet Sameach atah

Yom Huledet Sameach atah

Yom Huledet Sameach

Yom Huledet Sameach

Yom Huledet Sameach atah