Prosperity Ministries - Does G-d Really want this for us?

[Sephania]

I am sure you have flipped through the channels, either on the radio or TV and come across a prosperity minister, or Word of Faith minister where they are telling you that it is G-d's good pleasure to pour out such abundance from heaven on you that you will not be able to contain it, for if you only send in your pleadge, love gift, offering, tithe, ( don't rob G-d!) that he will automatically do this for you.

So just how Biblical is this?

Did not HaSatan accuse G-d of having his people honor him and obey him because he prospered them? ( See the book of Job)



What would you do if someone said an abundance of blessings would be yours if you just gave a portion of your income away? I believe most of us would at least try to see if this principle came to pass. However, it never ceases to amaze me that this same concept applies to tithing, yet many believers are not walking in the fullness of their blessings. Unlike most worldly claims, tithing is not some scam or trick intended to deceive. We don't have to guess whether or not we will receive our blessings—it's the Truth! In Malachi 3:10, The Lord tells us that we should:

"Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove Me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."


Do you know anyone who has tithed faithfully for years and are they overflowing with blessings? ( they don't have to be the financial or material kind either).

[Ahavah]

I am sure you have flipped through the channels, either on the radio or TV and come across a prosperity minister, or Word of Faith minister where they are telling you that it is G-d's good pleasure to pour out such abundance from heaven on you that you will not be able to contain it, for if you only send in your pleadge, love gift, offering, tithe, ( don't rob G-d!) that he will automatically do this for you.

So just how Biblical is this?

Did not HaSatan accuse G-d of having his people honor him and obey him because he prospered them? ( See the book of Job)


Do you know anyone who has tithed faithfully for years and are they overflowing with blessings? ( they don't have to be the financial or material kind either).OhhHHhhhhhh..Zayit...don't get me started on this one!;) I don't agree with the church structure in the first place. It's a man made institute..and I don't think Yeshua would be very welcome in one!

[Tishri1]

If prosperity came only from money then maybe the church would have something I need, but the root of all evil is love of money so why focus so much on it as the answer to life's worries.I would rather the church focus on how to become distinct from the rest of the world and show people how to get their needs met and their properity from some other source than money...like Yeshua did over and over again.

Here in Sunny Ca. the hot Topic of conversation is always how much equity you have in your house...How much are "you worth"? My house and my equity should not define me as a prosperous person...yet here it seems to:sick:

[Sephania]

Interesting what is taught http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/char/more/w-f.htm

"Speak to your wallet and your checkbook for prosperity"

:eek:

[Tishri1]

This is something I bet you don't find in Israel. I think it is a personality profile of the End Times Babylon (maybe the ancient as well) that Money defines us as favored (or not) by the Gods...phooy !:mad:

That is one thing I will not miss in the Millenium!:cool:

[Shimshon]

Some scriptural references on 'prospering'

D'varim 23:20 - Don't lend with interest. (Don't charge for what your giving).

29:9 - observe the words of this covenant and obey them
Yehushua 1:8 - keep this book of the Torah on your lips, and meditate on it day and night, so that you will take care to act according to everything written in it. (act accordingly, not just observe, but in accordance with the Truth)

(bet some didn't think I would post these two)

Tehillim 92:7 - all who do evil prosper so that they can be eternally destroyed.

Tehillim 122:6 - those who love YHVH.

Mishlei 11:25 - the person who blesses others

19:8 - who treasure discerment

28:25 - who trust in YHVH

Our prosperity comes from YHVH alone. He gives and he takes away. And there is no Torah against this.

Mattityahu 19:21 Yeshua said to him, "If you are serious about reaching the goal, go and sell your possessions, give to the poor, and you will have riches in heaven. Then come, follow me!"

Mark 10:21 Yeshua, looking at him, felt love for him and said to him, "You're missing one thing. Go, sell whatever you own, give to the poor, and you will have riches in heaven. Then come, follow me!"

Luke 12:33 Sell what you own and do tzedakah -- make for yourselves purses that don't wear out, riches in heaven that never fail, where no burglar comes near, where no moth destroys.

1 Tim 6:3 If anyone teaches differently and does not agree to the sound precepts of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah and to the doctrine that is in keeping with godliness, 4 he is swollen with conceit and understands nothing. Instead, he has a morbid desire for controversies and word-battles, out of which come jealousy, dissension, insults, evil suspicions, 5 and constant wrangling among people whose minds no longer function properly and who have been deprived of the truth, so that they imagine that religion is a road to riches. 6 Now true religion does bring great riches, but only to those who are content with what they have. 7 For we have brought nothing into the world; and we can take nothing out of it; 8 so if we have food and clothing, we will be satisfied with these. 9 Furthermore, those whose goal is to be rich fall into temptation; they get trapped in many foolish and hurtful ambitions which plunge them into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all the evils; because of this craving, some people have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves to the heart with many pains. 11 But you, as a man of God, flee from these things; and pursue righteousness, godliness, faithfulness, love, steadfastness, gentleness.

[Tishri1]

NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!:clap::clap::clap: WEE HAW! I WANNA FOLLOW SOME OF THAT KIND OF PROSPERITY TEACHING!!!:bow:

[MyLittleWonders]

So, color me totally lost ... is tithing, then, something that shouldn't be done? Is it not even applicable today? We tithe to our church where we've been members for a few years now and have yet to have any financial hardship even though our families think we are nuts about doing it. ;) Aren't we to support the financial aspects of where we go for ministry, teaching, and fellowship? I'm totally confused ... please tell me!

[keepinitreal]

Tithing has nothing to do with the prosperity teachings. There is no gaurantee of prosperity if you tithe. Only gaurantee that you will have what you need. You should tithe, unless you enjoy sitting in a cold and dark building! IF your church has proven they use finances in a godly manner, then tithe. Do not send money to "prosperity teachers" The tithe is for your home church, not TV preachers.

[talmidim]

Control room, go to Messiamercial on 5 4 3...

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Jewlula honey, would you listen to those phones ring! C'mon friends and call before those lines are all full..."
*gag* :sick:

[Ahavah]

So, color me totally lost ... is tithing, then, something that shouldn't be done? Is it not even applicable today? We tithe to our church where we've been members for a few years now and have yet to have any financial hardship even though our families think we are nuts about doing it. ;) Aren't we to support the financial aspects of where we go for ministry, teaching, and fellowship? I'm totally confused ... please tell me!Tithing was meant for the Levi's of the Old Temple. Does the "church" now follow the Old temple ways? Why don't they do a bull sacrifice too then???? Haha:D

[Ahavah]

Jewlula honey, would you listen to those phones ring! C'mon friends and call before those lines are all full..."
The lines were busy.:( Haha:P

[Bon]

Take a close look at the lifestyle of those people who ask for your "generous donations for the Lord".

[Mikhail]

Having at times been for the "Prosperity Message" then against it and now just doing what is pleasing to my Father in heaven.

I observe and do the following.
1. Tythe as to not do so puts me under a curse.
2. Give offerings on top of this as the scriptures teach a man reaps what he sows.

The tythe belongs to the Levi in in your town as he has no inheritance, ir he does not have land to sow and reap so therefore those in ful time ministry are in the same position. The tythe is also for the widows and orphans and the stranger in your midst.
A tythe of the tythe went from the local levites to Jerusalem.

Building or repair to the temple was done out of offerings not out of the tythe.

Regarding the anti tele evangelist keep in mind that many of these men give a huge amount to other ministries something the local churches are pitifully poor at doing. Beleive me I have been in meetings to see this forst hand.

Kenneth Copeland Ministries in particular that I am aware of has underwitten and paid for all of Rinehardt Bonke's crusades across Africa for many years. Because of this Bonke's ministry has been able ot concentrate on the logistics and as Kenneth Copeland regard's his ministry as a teaching one predominateley it is a way for them to practically help another ministry that is evangelistic.

I agree their is a lot of hype and some push the giving so hard that it is clear that they are what I call proponents of Mammon rather than Elohim.

I have a friend who is on 100K plus and he is always having problems financially :scratch: but mention tythe and the guy goes off his tree about it and does not want anything to do with it.:doh: He is single so has no family to support either. He can be very genreous and does give adhoc to missions etc so his blessings are up and down.
Shalom,
Mikhail

[visionary]

Tithing was meant for the Levi's of the Old Temple. Does the "church" now follow the Old temple ways? Why don't they do a bull sacrifice too then???? Haha:DThey can't see it in front of them if they were even waving a red flag. :help:

[talmidim]

Some Messiahmercial operators are helping other ministries; it's true, but...

SOME are sacrificing "bull" everyday! :D (for the Gospel)
SOME need a new outfit (in the thousands of $s) for every TV appearance (for the Gospel).
SOME need multi-million dollar business jets so they don't have to wait in lines (for the Gospel).
SOME need a new luxury car waiting in every city that they visit with any regularity (for the Gospel).
SOME need villas on the Riviera, country club memberships and personal chefs (for the Gospel).
MOST are getting obscenely rich (for the Gospel).
ALL will usurp tithe meant for cohenim, orphans, widows and strangers (for the Gospel).
NONE are itinerate preachers with no home and a heart for all people of the earth (such as my Master).
Call now, operators are standing by...

[Ahavah]

Some Messiahmercial operators are helping other ministries; it's true, but...

SOME are sacrificing "bull" everyday! :D (for the Gospel)
SOME need a new outfit (in the thousands of $s) for every TV appearance (for the Gospel).
SOME need multi-million dollar business jets so they don't have to wait in lines (for the Gospel).
SOME need a new luxury car waiting in every city that they visit with any regularity (for the Gospel).
SOME need villas on the Riviera, country club memberships and personal chefs (for the Gospel).
MOST are getting obscenely rich (for the Gospel).
ALL will usurp tithe meant for cohenim, orphans, widows and strangers (for the Gospel).
NONE are itinerate preachers with no home and a heart for all people of the earth (such as my Master).
Call now, operators are standing by...NOPE...LINES STILL BUSY. What..is this a hoax or what?:P

[Shimshon]

:help: :doh:

[Ahavah]

So call and join NOW!!! BUT WAIT! That's right, I said hold on there friends, because we have saved the best for last!!

With each Love gift, we will send you another set of wealth generating "hotspot" coordinates, so that you too, can participate in finding your own divine wellspring of wealth!!

Ok..this is getting old..I keep callin' but those darn phone lines are busy. (must be a hotspot):thumbsup:
I sure hope I can still get my free "hotspot" coordinates to find that wellspring of wealth.
I'll just have to keep on prayin' that those lines open up soon!!!!:prayer:

[yod]

Where your treasure is, there your heart is also.....



Tithing (or giving of any kind) is a reflection of your hearts condition regarding the things of this world. If you are holding back your substance from the Lord then you have little faith. Where you put your treasure is as important as how faithfully you give.

However, these (false) "prosperity teachers" are playing on the greed/covetousness of people by teaching a lottery mentality...as if giving to them is giving to the Lord and He owes you something in return.

We all resent them for presenting themselves as agents of G-d to whom cash is due.

Give, give, give....but give responsibly to building the Lord's Kingdom or it means nothing.

[Mikhail]

Where your treasure is, there your heart is also.....



Tithing (or giving of any kind) is a reflection of your hearts condition regarding the things of this world. If you are holding back your substance from the Lord then you have little faith. Where you put your treasure is as important as how faithfully you give.

However, these (false) "prosperity teachers" are playing on the greed/covetousness of people by teaching a lottery mentality...as if giving to them is giving to the Lord and He owes you something in return.

We all resent them for presenting themselves as agents of G-d to whom cash is due.

Give, give, give....but give responsibly to building the Lord's Kingdom or it means nothing.

One man hears a message and sows good seed for the benefit of others, another man hearing the same message is consummed with greed and selfish ambition and sows for what he can get.
The smae message but it is the heart of the hearer that is different, to one confirmation of his surrending his material possessions to Elohim to the other it has become a stumbling block of seeking after riches.

Search my heart oh Elohim and se if their be any wicked way in me.
Shalom,
Mikhail

[Sephania]

Tithing was to be done in the Temple, not in churches, or synogogues even. If you give a tenth of your income to your church or synogogue I can guarantee it does not all go for the people, it is illegal to do so.

[Shimshon]

The tithe was part of the covenant given to Yisrael IN THE LAND, with Temple (given by YHVH) and a Cohanim (set up by YHVH) with Torah (given by YHVH for them in the Temple that stood on that Land). To give it in any other fashion is NOT doing what YHVH set up and as Zayit said; "is illegal" according to the Law (Torah).

[Mikhail]

The tithe was part of the covenant given to Yisrael IN THE LAND, with Temple (given by YHVH) and a Cohanim (set up by YHVH) with Torah (given by YHVH for them in the Temple that stood on that Land). To give it in any other fashion is NOT doing what YHVH set up and as Zayit said; "is illegal" according to the Law (Torah).

Ok well you guys can go ahead and not tythe as me and my house we will tythe as I would rather obey the commandment that says how may a man rob God, i tythes and offerings that is why the land is under a curse.

I would rather have the work of my hand (the land in this verse) blessed than under a curse.

Yes obviously their is no temple so that just means we need to use wisdom in where it does go but their is no doubt that to keep it is to rob God as he said by the mouth of the Prophet Malachi.

I release the tythe to Elohim if the ones who use it do not honour him they will be called to account for their stewardship and I will be held for mine which is why I tythe on the profit of all my income.
Yeshua said you should have done mercy and then not forgotten to tythe on your mint.

I am surprised that their are those on this forum that fight so strongly to defend the relevancy of other parts of the Torah and yet find this one does not apply I would rather give and live on less if I had too...hang I have done that at times as he has impressed upon me to give.
Shalom,
Mikhail

[talmidim]

The tithe was part of the covenant given to Yisrael IN THE LAND, with Temple (given by YHVH) and a Cohanim (set up by YHVH) with Torah (given by YHVH for them in the Temple that stood on that Land). To give it in any other fashion is NOT doing what YHVH set up and as Zayit said; "is illegal" according to the Law (Torah).Yet we know that the Father did all the things in Torah as a picture of how things should work. Yeshua illustrated that it is a "heart" matter. We should give to the poor because it is in our hearts to do so. We should set aside a portion of "our harvest" for those in need. We should support the man of G-d as the Ruach HaKodesh leads. But you are correct, shimshon. I cannot think of a single scripture that would compel me to support a group of people that decide upon "an exclusive biblical doctrine" as the basis to start a "property purchasing, asset holding, salary paying, accounts payable and recievable, tax dodging" international corporation with the money that is supposed to be set aside for cohenim, orphans, widows and strangers. With all of the hardship I see in my own neighborhood, I cannot fathom why I would give His tithe to support their already wealthy heirarchy (even if they do some good now and again).

[Shimshon]

Ok well you guys can go ahead and not tythe as me and my house we will tythe as I would rather obey the commandment that says how may a man rob God, i tythes and offerings that is why the land is under a curse.

I would rather have the work of my hand (the land in this verse) blessed than under a curse.

The curse has been removed Mikail, by Yeshua.

Yes obviously their is no temple so that just means we need to use wisdom in where it does go but their is no doubt that to keep it is to rob God as he said by the mouth of the Prophet Malachi.

The Temple has been removed Achi, by Yeshua.

I release the tythe to Elohim if the ones who use it do not honour him they will be called to account for their stewardship and I will be held for mine which is why I tythe on the profit of all my income.
Yeshua said you should have done mercy and then not forgotten to tythe on your mint. He was speaking to those under the the Law, the Torah given Moshe to those in living in Ha Eretz. Ha Eretz has been restored, and so has the covenant. Hence the term "NEW" covenant. New promises. Ones promised from the begining, coming about in your day. Seeming NEW!!!...a mystery. Yeshua, YHVH as a man. IN YOUR DAY!! Something promised from the begining, appearing as bright as 'the dawn' in your heart.

I am surprised that their are those on this forum that fight so strongly to defend the relevancy of other parts of the Torah and yet find this one does not apply I would rather give and live on less if I had too...hang I have done that at times as he has impressed upon me to give.
Shalom,
MikhailMikhail, GIVE! by all means. But know that the tithe is 'a tenth of the produce you received from THE LAND, I promised to give your ancestors as an inheritance, and when you live IN THE LAND, under the covenant I give through Moshe.....THEN bring in your tenth. But one day I will scatter you into all the nations and you won't be Ammi. You won't have a Land, a Temple....But you WILL have a NEW covenant that I will have given you PERSONALLY!...Achi, I love you.

[Shimshon]

We are to give ALL our selves to Yeshua. And he told us to give ALL of ourselves to his sheep!! Shaul is your example?! He had NO home, no possesions, and no physicality but a body in this life. His sole mission was to SPEAK for Yeshua. In every place imaginable, every place Yeshua sent him. His heart desire was to bring the Good News to Rome. The center of the world. Amen. He died there, doing what he was called to do. Not in a tent with many riches and many children blessing Elohim for his "prosperity". He was prosperous above all ways by doing the will of Elohim. And seeing his sheep, his children be born and grow.

He gave to those in bondage, freed those who were bound, gave endlessly to those who had no home, no family, no food.....Feed the widow, the poor, those in bondage, set the captive free....from THE CURSE!!!

[Tishri1]

I don't think that those who don't tithe are not givers though, giving to the needs of others and taking care of our loved ones is sooo important.

[talmidim]

Ok well you guys can go ahead and not tythe as me and my house we will tythe as I would rather obey the commandment that says how may a man rob God, i tythes and offerings that is why the land is under a curse.

I would rather have the work of my hand (the land in this verse) blessed than under a curse.

Yes obviously their is no temple so that just means we need to use wisdom in where it does go but their is no doubt that to keep it is to rob God as he said by the mouth of the Prophet Malachi.

I release the tythe to Elohim if the ones who use it do not honour him they will be called to account for their stewardship and I will be held for mine which is why I tythe on the profit of all my income.
Yeshua said you should have done mercy and then not forgotten to tythe on your mint.

I am surprised that their are those on this forum that fight so strongly to defend the relevancy of other parts of the Torah and yet find this one does not apply I would rather give and live on less if I had too...hang I have done that at times as he has impressed upon me to give.
Shalom,
MikhailShalom Mikhail,

I give to the hungry, the poor, to my brothers and sisters in need. I give to my teachers and to support certain ministries as I feel led. The difference is only what it is called, that is, how we interpret the scripture.

The rules of PaRDeS tell us that we MUST interpret scripture in its plain meaning first. At least find out what they are (PaRDeS). Do a Google search for these rules. Apply them to every scripture concerning tithe, offering, charity, etc., and then draw your own conclusions.

I don't know about you, but when I hear what some "Preachers and Teachers" have done to scripture, it makes me want to SCREAM!!!!! They take and twist the very words of the Father to profit themselves and their cause. They put the souls of people in peril for their own gain.

We both give and have faith, Mikhail. We just read scripture a little differently than those that have the microphone and the camera.

b'Shalom

[Shimshon]

With all of the hardship I see in my own neighborhood, I cannot fathom why I would give His tithe to support their already wealthy heirarchy (even if they do some good now and again).So mister Cohanim, when you gonna bless those people living in hardship in your land? :thumbsup:

YOU are the Cohen, YOU have received EVERYTHING from Abba, he has overfilled your storehouse. Now GO and give to my people, my sheep, FEED MY SHEEP!!!! :hug: Love them with the holy love I placed in your heart. I have given you blessing beyond measure, and I expect you to GIVE THEM to those in need. Physical AND Spiritual, you are BOTH and I have given you BOTH to BLESS MY CHILDREN WITH!!!

We are now scattered throughout the world in every land imaginable. YOU are the Temple I have set up and blessed with my Ruach!

[Mikhail]

The curse has been removed Mikail, by Yeshua.

Well I sure do see a lot manifestations of the cursings as described in the scriptures so it does not look like they have been removed to me.



The Temple has been removed Achi, by Yeshua.

Well techically the Romans removed it actually Yeshua just prophesied that it would happen.


He was speaking to those under the the Law, the Torah given Moshe to those in living in Ha Eretz. Ha Eretz has been restored, and so has the covenant. Hence the term "NEW" covenant. New promises. Ones promised from the begining, coming about in your day. Seeming NEW!!!...a mystery. Yeshua, YHVH as a man. IN YOUR DAY!! Something promised from the begining, appearing as bright as 'the dawn' in your heart.
Pardon me but the covenant was renewed or do you subscribe to the dispensationalist church age philosophy I am just wanting to understand where you are at that's all.


Mikhail, GIVE! by all means. But know that the tithe is 'a tenth of the produce you received from THE LAND, I promised to give your ancestors as an inheritance, and when you live IN THE LAND, under the covenant I give through Moshe.....THEN bring in your tenth. But one day I will scatter you into all the nations and you won't be Ammi. You won't have a Land, a Temple....But you WILL have a NEW covenant that I will have given you PERSONALLY!...Achi, I love you.

Sounds like a lot of Rabbinical type reasons and justifications for not obeying the commandments to me.
Shalom,
Mikhail

[Sephania]

Ok well you guys can go ahead and not tythe as me and my house we will tythe as I would rather obey the commandment that says how may a man rob God, i tythes and offerings that is why the land is under a curse.

I would rather have the work of my hand (the land in this verse) blessed than under a curse.

Yes obviously their is no temple so that just means we need to use wisdom in where it does go but their is no doubt that to keep it is to rob God as he said by the mouth of the Prophet Malachi.

I release the tythe to Elohim if the ones who use it do not honour him they will be called to account for their stewardship and I will be held for mine which is why I tythe on the profit of all my income.
Yeshua said you should have done mercy and then not forgotten to tythe on your mint.

I am surprised that their are those on this forum that fight so strongly to defend the relevancy of other parts of the Torah and yet find this one does not apply I would rather give and live on less if I had too...hang I have done that at times as he has impressed upon me to give.
Shalom,
MikhailMilkael, that was written to the Cohanim, the Levites, not the "common people". Any minister, preacher, "Rabbi" that uses those scriptures from Malachi is preaching out of context and twisting the word.

What did Yeshua say? Bring forth fruits worthy of repentance ( a contrite heart, remember what David said?) , and "give to every man that asks of you", "do unto them as you would have done unto you", and when the people asked what they should do he said "Whosoever has two coats let him give to the one who has none, and he who has food , likewise give to him that hath none.

[Shimshon]

actually Yeshua just prophesied that it would happen.


???:confused: And this is not by the will of YHVH?

"Technically the Cohen is redeemed, actually you just gave the sacrifice to him. ?????" (taken to it's illogical end)

The Temple was removed, Yeshua, who is YHVH in the flesh 'prophesied' or promised (Torah) it would happen.

Pardon me but the covenant was renewed or do you subscribe to the dispensationalist church age philosophy I am just wanting to understand where you are at that's all.

Mikail, to your Observant mindset I probably do appear to be preaching 'dispensationalism', but you can't excape the words in your very Torah' "must occur a TRANSFORMATION of Torah". I do not endorse or preach Church dispensationalism. Though they have been shown the Truth and have believed the lies the Adversary said concerning it. And became very anti-semetic in the process. The Church does not replace, Yisrael. It IS Yisrael. Just that the visible 'organization' calling itself such is not the true entity. As they hold to too many lies of the Adversary with regard to the Truth they heard.



Sounds like a lot of Rabbinical type reasons and justifications for not obeying the commandments to me.
Shalom,
MikhailI find this is a shame achi. To hold on to the past and say it's the present is denying the Truth of the moment. But I have faith that all who he draws will come.

Shalom Aleikhem Mikail