Can you all use the computer on the Sabbath?

[easttndoc]

I was here yesterday and realized that Saturday is the Jewish Sabbath and I was here by myself. Today there are several on. I remember reading from the Rabbi David Small series by Harry Kemelman that according to Jewish law that many Orthodox and Conservative Jews do not work any machines on the Sabbath. For better or worse most of what I know about Jewish law and culture in modern America comes from this series of books. I live in an area with very few Jewish folks.

I am very intrigued by how different people view the sabbath and it is especially interesting how Christians and Jews see it differently. Messianic Jews must really have interesting perspectives.

Also, should Sabbath be capitalized? And if I forget and type G-d with the o, I hope no one will take offense.

Warmly, your brother in Christ,
DTS

[Tishri1]

Hi Doc:wave:, I was on for a while yesterday, for fellowship of course,(what other season is there?:))and I also respect those that weren't, it's a personal walk(halachah) I guess how we pursue Torah , for me, I seek out the Father and fellowship on the Sabbath and avoid anything that smacks as "work", but I appreciate All the ways we find ourselves loving the Father while we wait for his return:clap:

[visionary]

Sabbath is a time set aside for Him. Each is convicted in their own mind how that should be. We share our convictions and gain spiritual insights in to the other's understanding and sometimes embrace it like new light. Scripture does not cover computers and their use. We are to spiritual see our world in the spiritual Godly realm and live accordingly. Depending on our spiritual maturity, that can range in computer useage during the Sabbath.

Personally I use the Computer to communicate with spiritually minded individuals on Christian Forum. I do not see the computer as work, but a means of communication. Although I do restrict myself in other ways. I will not debate any given subject, but have a tendency to praise the Lord and give testimony as to what He has done in my life. If the Lord has inspired me with scripture, I share that. This is my personal convictions as to the use of the computer and the Sabbath.

By the way, we use the word Shabbat...and we are not offended by those who use the "o" in God.

Hope that helps.

[Bruce101]

Some of us also attend regular Christian churches, (I am infiltrating, LOL ) and are therefore busy with "Sunday" stuff.
Bruce

[plum]

welcome, doc! :wave:
I personally count my time on the computer as mostly non-work related. I do not work on Shabbat (well, I'm working towards more of a restful period. i am SUCH a newbie at this still...) so i won't work on my computer.
but i will use it to study the Bible and fellowship.

[easttndoc]

So what do you all think about celebrating the Shabbat on Sunday. I'm actually a little uneasy with it. I am no Seven Day Adventist, but have to admit that Sunday was begun by Rome likely to celebrate Apollo more than Christ's resurrection. Do most Messianics celebrate on Saturday and wish Gentile Christians would too? Do you observe on Saturday and still attend church on Sunday? Or do you just not sweat it too much?

As for me, I'm not sure how I can avoid work on Sunday or any one day of the week and haven't been able to since school. I justify it in my mind, but am not real happy about it. When I retire, I think I'll be "super observant" for a Gentile anyway to make up for so much Sunday or Saturday work.

[A_Pioneer]

I choose not to do on the Sabbath, that which I do six days of the week. I neither do computor nor television on the Sabbath, I set that day apart from all other days.

Isa 58:13 ¶ "If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words,

From "Candle Lighting" until the Havdalah, I do my best to do what is pleasing to the Lord.

[Wags]

So what do you all think about celebrating the Shabbat on Sunday. I'm actually a little uneasy with it. I am no Seven Day Adventist, but have to admit that Sunday was begun by Rome likely to celebrate Apollo more than Christ's resurrection. Do most Messianics celebrate on Saturday and wish Gentile Christians would too? Do you observe on Saturday and still attend church on Sunday? Or do you just not sweat it too much?

As for me, I'm not sure how I can avoid work on Sunday or any one day of the week and haven't been able to since school. I justify it in my mind, but am not real happy about it. When I retire, I think I'll be "super observant" for a Gentile anyway to make up for so much Sunday or Saturday work.

Adonai was very clear at creation that Shabbat was the 7th and not the 1st day of the week. As you no doubt know, there is no mention in scripture of that the day Adonai set aside as holy was ever changed.

Some that are new to the messainic faith do continue to fellowship at Sunday churches, but more often than not as they continue their walk and share their knowledge in their home church, they find themselves feeling less comfortable there (or in some cases they are just flat out asked to leave).

As for myself, I wish the whole world celebrated Shabbat on the 7th day. Because that is what will happen when Messiah returns! (And lets face it, its so much simplier to keep Shabbat when you live in a community of like minded persons - plus no temptation to run to the store to shop - its closed, same with the resturants, gas stations, etc....)

[By Grace]

I choose not to do on the Sabbath, that which I do six days of the week. I neither do computor nor television on the Sabbath, I set that day apart from all other days.

Isa 58:13 ¶ "If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words,

From "Candle Lighting" until the Havdalah, I do my best to do what is pleasing to the Lord.




This is kinda the way I see it. The problem, FOR ME, isn't so much that it's "work"--it's really not work at all in my case. The problem is more that being online is my *usual* activity for the other 6 days of the week. I feel that my focus should be directly on God's Word, and not on all the other things that I like to think about and do. I try not to read any other book (incl. MJ books) but the Bible on Shabbat, so that my focus is there. I even try to direct my thoughts so that I'm not spending lots of time pondering plans for the week, or ideas for my garden, or whatever. By limiting my recreational activities to quality time with my DH and my kids (which I see as being God's priority for me at the moment--this is what I do to "do good"), and any other time I have I spend reading the Bible, my mind and heart become fertile ground for the ideas and insights that God has for me.

However, I fully recognize that other people are in different situations. For someone like Vis, time here is like a breath of fresh air. I think that when we're living and obeying in a spirit of Love, we aren't so preoccupied with condemning everyone around us for the way they observe a particular mitzvah, but rather, we rejoice that they're even trying! :clap: When I first started on the MJ path, it was so easy for me to pick out things that Christians around me were doing "wrong", and to feel spiritually superior to them in some way, b/c I was Torah-observant, and they weren't, yk? :blush: But as I grew in Torah, and started seeing it in the way Yeshua tried to show us, I realized that not only was I so lacking in obedience that I had no place for pride of any kind, but also, Christians around me were actually more obedient than I had given them credit for. Though most Christians may not recognize the importance of Shabbat, many of them do put a lot of time and energy and other resources into caring for the poor, and loving their neighbors. Isn't that important, too? Of course! So I've learned to put less energy into finding their faults, and more energy into appreciating and even learning from the things they're doing right, regardless of the understanding, or lack thereof, of Torah.

Anyway, all that to say this. Though the details of your obedience to the command to honor Shabbat are important, they're not nearly as important as where your heart is--the why of your obedience. That will color the whole of your thinking and understanding. Do you stay off the computer b/c it makes you feel proud of yourself, like you're more worthy of God's love when you're obedient, or something like that? In which case you'll be looking for all the things other people are doing wrong, just to show how much superior you are to them. Or do you stay off the computer b/c you truly want God to find pleasure in your heart's attitude and in your actions (which show your heart's attitude)? In which case you'll be looking for good things that others are doing, b/c you want to thank God that He has glorified Himself in their lives, too! :bow:

Sorry I'm so talkative tonight. I tried to go to bed at 11 PM, snoozed for a few minutes, then something woke me up, and I couldn't go back to sleep, so now I'm here to try to get tired again (right!). :)

[easttndoc]

This is kinda the way I see it. The problem, FOR ME, isn't so much that it's "work"--it's really not work at all in my case. The problem is more that being online is my *usual* activity for the other 6 days of the week. I feel that my focus should be directly on God's Word, and not on all the other things that I like to think about and do. I try not to read any other book (incl. MJ books) but the Bible on Shabbat, so that my focus is there. I even try to direct my thoughts so that I'm not spending lots of time pondering plans for the week, or ideas for my garden, or whatever. By limiting my recreational activities to quality time with my DH and my kids (which I see as being God's priority for me at the moment--this is what I do to "do good"), and any other time I have I spend reading the Bible, my mind and heart become fertile ground for the ideas and insights that God has for me.

However, I fully recognize that other people are in different situations. For someone like Vis, time here is like a breath of fresh air. I think that when we're living and obeying in a spirit of Love, we aren't so preoccupied with condemning everyone around us for the way they observe a particular mitzvah, but rather, we rejoice that they're even trying! :clap: When I first started on the MJ path, it was so easy for me to pick out things that Christians around me were doing "wrong", and to feel spiritually superior to them in some way, b/c I was Torah-observant, and they weren't, yk? :blush: But as I grew in Torah, and started seeing it in the way Yeshua tried to show us, I realized that not only was I so lacking in obedience that I had no place for pride of any kind, but also, Christians around me were actually more obedient than I had given them credit for. Though most Christians may not recognize the importance of Shabbat, many of them do put a lot of time and energy and other resources into caring for the poor, and loving their neighbors. Isn't that important, too? Of course! So I've learned to put less energy into finding their faults, and more energy into appreciating and even learning from the things they're doing right, regardless of the understanding, or lack thereof, of Torah.

Anyway, all that to say this. Though the details of your obedience to the command to honor Shabbat are important, they're not nearly as important as where your heart is--the why of your obedience. That will color the whole of your thinking and understanding. Do you stay off the computer b/c it makes you feel proud of yourself, like you're more worthy of God's love when you're obedient, or something like that? In which case you'll be looking for all the things other people are doing wrong, just to show how much superior you are to them. Or do you stay off the computer b/c you truly want God to find pleasure in your heart's attitude and in your actions (which show your heart's attitude)? In which case you'll be looking for good things that others are doing, b/c you want to thank God that He has glorified Himself in their lives, too! :bow:

Sorry I'm so talkative tonight. I tried to go to bed at 11 PM, snoozed for a few minutes, then something woke me up, and I couldn't go back to sleep, so now I'm here to try to get tired again (right!). :)

Thanks Jill, great post.

[Tishri1]

So what do you all think about celebrating the Shabbat on Sunday. I'm actually a little uneasy with it. I am no Seven Day Adventist, but have to admit that Sunday was begun by Rome likely to celebrate Apollo more than Christ's resurrection. Do most Messianics celebrate on Saturday and wish Gentile Christians would too? Do you observe on Saturday and still attend church on Sunday? Or do you just not sweat it too much?

As for me, I'm not sure how I can avoid work on Sunday or any one day of the week and haven't been able to since school. I justify it in my mind, but am not real happy about it. When I retire, I think I'll be "super observant" for a Gentile anyway to make up for so much Sunday or Saturday work.Everyone walks in the light they have been given, that is all you should do if something doesn't make sence right now seek the Father for clarity so The Torah can be written on your heart. We don't all agree exactly on everything but we still love each other very much, and don't let our friendship suffer cus of lack of understanding, but we pray for eachother and our selves, we want to be pleasing to the Father only (not please eachother) and support and encourage each other that's all:sorry:

Hope that makes sence.

When I first started walking in this I had no idea that it would be sooo freeing. I expected it to be a hard thing to do, rest on Saturday. I thought it would encrouch on every aspect of my life! But when I did it my life became free!:clap: I cant explain why but it did. I seemed to have more time and energy to do more things, I had more $ too (strange but that was one thing I remember noticing) My health improved as my body and mind were really given a whole day to destress, and I guess that is a scientific fact that we need time each week to decompress. My heart was truely free to love Him and study unhindered by time.

As Shabbat became more meaningful I thought I had arrived(become filled with all knowlede, and understanding...hehehe) but let me offer up this praise to ABBA:clap:! His Festivals (Shabbat being the First one) never leave you feeling done at the end (like other man made holidays do, if you know what I mean;)) It may be because they were designed by Him for us to get to know Him more. I always get new things everytime I sit down to another festive meal or open My scriptures to read or sing and dance and pray the prayers for any of the Festvals, I always come away new and improved and satisfied and looking forward to the next one.