Mind helping me out with something please?

[e=mv^2]

Hello and thanks for any help you might be able to lend me.

While reading about Judaism I happened upon this:

These Sefirot correspond to qualities of G-d. They consist of, in descending order, Keter (the crown), Chokhmah (wisdom), Binah (intuition, understanding), Chesed (mercy) or Gedulah (greatness), Gevurah (strength), Tiferet (glory), Netzach (victory), Hod (majesty), Yesod (foundation) and Malkut (sovereignty). The middle five qualities are mentioned explicitly and in order at I Chronicles 29:11: Yours, O L-rd, is the greatness (gedulah), the strength (gevurah), the glory (tiferet), the power (netzach), and the splendor (hod). I have seen this passage translated in widely varying ways, but the Hebrew corresponds to the names of the Sefirot in order.

Ignoring the kabbalah references here - I noticed that the order of the attributes listed here did not line up with the King James Version of the bible.

Chronicles 1 29:11 Hebrew םימשב לכ-יכ דוההו חצנהו תראפתהו הרובגהו הלדגה הוהי ךל
:שארל לכל אשנתמהו הכלממה הוהי ךל ץראבו
Translit le.kha ye.ho.va ha.ge.du.la ve.hag.vu.ra ve.ha.tif.e.ret ve.ha.ne.tsakh ve.ha.hod ki-khol ba.sha.ma.yim u.va.a.rets le.kha a.do.nai ha.mam.la.kha ve.ha.mit.na.se le.khol le.rosh:
English Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty; for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is Thine; Thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and Thou art exalted as head above all.

Even here the ordering seems to be different.

I do not know the hebrew language - my observation is just from the first quote so hopefully this will be an easy one to answer. But what I am seeing here is:

transliteration:
ge.du.la
hag.vu.ra Which is different from the version in the quote which was gevurah but it was close so I assume that is what it was.
tif.e.ret
ne.tsakh
hod

English:
Greatness
Power
Glory
Victory
Majesty

Is there in fact a difference in the ordering here? What am I missing?

[Velcro]

I am merely a student of Hebrew, so I doubt I could be of much help. Also, I have a hard time with words that have been transliterated into English, rather than using the Hebrew font, but your Hebrew font is very difficult for me to read -- it is so tiny. I am not sure what you are getting at, other than "hag.vu.ra" which is "the power." "Ha" is "the."

What am I missing in your question?

Oh, unless you are pointing out "the power (netzach), and the splendor (hod)."
"netzach" could be "victory" -- ?? And "hod" is "majesty, splendor, excellence."

???

I guess what you need to remember is that words sometimes have similar basic meanings, and the good translator simply does her/his best to translate the words into what will relate the idea closest to the translator's concept of the meaning. Also, in Hebrew poetry, similar words are purposely used in order to help the reader understand the depth of meaning of an idea. Does that make sense? Sorry I could not be a better help. :wave:

[shmuel]

I'm not sure was exactly is being asked here, but I will point out that the Hebrew text that is provided is reversed. It is running from left to right rather that the convention for Hebrew of right to left.

[e=mv^2]

Thank you for responding. Sorry about the hebrew font - I do not understand why that happened when I pasted it here....strange.

Oh, unless you are pointing out "the power (netzach), and the splendor (hod)."
"netzach" could be "victory" -- ?? And "hod" is "majesty, splendor, excellence."

My question is really about the ordering of the values. If you were to look up this verse in the original hebrew would the ordering of the values match what is in the english translation? What I am seeing here:

Yours, O L-rd, is the greatness (gedulah), the strength (gevurah), the glory (tiferet), the power (netzach), and the splendor (hod).

vs here:

Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty;

There seems to be a change. Gevurah being strength and netzach being power or gevurah being power and netzach being victory. I know the words are similar - the main problem I have is that there are two different words being translated as "power".

[Velcro]

There doesn't seem to be a change to me. I think the point here is what I mentioned earlier: I guess what you need to remember is that words sometimes have similar basic meanings, and the good translator simply does her/his best to translate the words into what will relate the idea closest to the translator's concept of the meaning. Also, in Hebrew poetry, similar words are purposely used in order to help the reader understand the depth of meaning of an idea.

Looking at my Bible, it is "greatness . . . power . . . glory . . . victory . . . majesty," all of which could be translated into other similar English words, thus the meanings crossing over.

[debi b]

There seems to be a change. Gevurah being strength and netzach being power or gevurah being power and netzach being victory. I know the words are similar - the main problem I have is that there are two different words being translated as "power".

Gevurah The root for this word is gimmel, bet, resh rbG The basic meaning of these three root letters is to be strong, mighty, prevail, overcome. From these letters words are formed:

verb = to be strong, to grow, make strong, to exert strength to oneself strong, to exert strength
noun (gever) = a valiant male, male person, warrior
adjective or noun (gibbor) = strong, mighty, valiant, powerful, hero, warrior
noun (gevurah) = strength, power, force, valor, courage, victory

Netzach The root for this word is nun, tzadeh, chet xcn The basic meaning of these three root letters is to excel, be superior, to endure, to last.

Verb = to excel, be superior, to endure, to last
Noun = splendour, glory, truth, power, firmness, confidence, duration
Adverb = always, forever, till eternity

There are similar meanings in these two words. Things like this happen all the time in translation.

[e=mv^2]

Wow thanks Debi! There is such depth in the hebrew language. I appreciate the reply.

Thanks to all of you!