Righteous Judgement or Grace

[Mikhail]

Hi All,
As some of you already are aware my wife who left me almost 24 Months ago, started dating the Rabbi of a the Messianic Congregation that I started going to after she left me in August of Last Year, this months prior to a secular divorce she had applied for in the courts without my invlolvement
.
Here is what happened last Shabbat at the congreagation I attend.

H..... V...... the Messiainc Rabbi
L......H...... Congregation Elder
B..... B..... Full Time Missionary and Evangelist
Last october H..... V...... was stepped down due to him appraoching and dating my wife, ontop of this when confronted he tried to conceal the amtter but was caught out.

H..... V...... had the gall to turn up to our last shabbat service. (1st May 2005)
Mikhail walks in with his 2 daughters "I told him he had a cheek/hide coming here."

H..... V...... just said yeah.

Meanwhile B..... B..... is sitting next to him with his arm stretch out behind H..... V...... on the back of the pew as one would do with a close friend.

B..... B..... verbally jumnped on me and told me if I did not be quiet I would be asked to leave.

I replied that man (pointing to H..... V...... ) coveted my wife and is dating her at the moment. (It was recently told me in an exchange at a mediation meeting regarding my access to the children by my wife that she had not committed adultery)

I went an sat at the front pew as is my custom I was warned again by B..... B.....

B..... B..... then told me further as I was sitting at the front pew a few pews in front of him and harold that he was serious.

A few minutes later L......H...... came over and warned me as well, that I would be asked to leave if I caused a scene.

I did not cause any further disturbance.

I am shocked and disgusted that the leadership has said and allowed him to be in our service and he took the Lord's Sedar to boot with them! I could not break bread in such a circumstance. As well he lingered and talked to members of the congregation as if nothing was wrong and they allowed that too!

Many in the congregation still do not know it was my wife that H..... V...... was stepped down for as they decided not to say who it was he was seeing even though she was working their part time looking after the under 5 yo children during the serrvice.

L......H...... seems it is of little consequence. Since she had filed for divorce at the time H..... V...... and her started going out.

L......H...... stepped him down because of past issues and the fact that he was going out with a woman that was going through a divorce.

The fact that she was working their part time and that I had been part of the congregation for over 12 months was not a factor at all, as he refused to tell the congregation at the time that it was my wife, the childrens helper that he was involved with. Let alone that Harold appraoched her while I was in his Hebrew class every Wednesday for several months during this period before it was exposed.

I have approached L......H...... via email and in person that their response should be to treat him worse than an unbeleiver until he repents certainly no one saught to establish this before allowing him to fellowshoip with us.

P... P...... (the worship leader & now associate pastor) after H..... V...... was stepped down even asked H..... V...... and my wife with his children and mine over to their house for a meal/fellowship this I when I found out I emailed L......H...... to find out what was P... P...... thinking when he allowed this. P... P...... and his wife have been friends for over 15 years now.

One brother after the service started talking to me about Harold not realising that it was my wife that Harold was dating until I told him he was embarrassed to say the least this again is because the leadership have not told all the details and have not taught the congregation how to relate to Harold unti he repents of this sin.

Why am I writing?

I would like to ask you based on what I have described am I wrong to expect the leadership to act as I have outlined.

Also if I have approached L......H...... several times can I bring another regarding his error in handly this and then bring it before the church. As the scripture teaches is the rightful order in dealing with someone in error.

I know that most of you will be appalled at this but what advice wisdom you may have would be appreciated.

Shalom,
Mikhail

[visionary]

Now this has nothing to do with biblical Paul advisory on the subject.... You are dealing with a man who has many friends within the congregation. His influence is seen and felt when dealing with this issue.... I know you know this and do not want to hear this.... BUT you are dealing with fellow human beings and the injustice of the events that have transpired will continue in the character of those people involved.

Emotionally, justice and vengence would satisfy your soul and emotional needs right now. But that would be short lived and never truly satisfying. Besides, it is not going to happen. It is going to take years for you to recover from this spiritual and emotional wound because of the difficulty in letting go. Your world has been torn apart and no one else seems to be affected by it all except you.

Whether you realize it or not Your children are...... Give them a much even keel as you can through this storm. You are still the captain of their ship until they are old enough to sail on their own. It may not seem as you have any influence in their lives, but you do by what you say and do. Try to make their lives a little more sense and stability during this trying time. Help them to grow emotionally strong and secure in your love and care for them without giving them emotional baggage that will cripple their spiritual, emotional, and maturity growth. You have responsibilities that must take a stronger role than your own wounds.

Reality is that the more you demand the more you are going to look like the bad guy in this tragedy. Sad that the congregation is unaware, but since you have put a bug in someone's ear, the gossip will spread through the congregation, and it will work for and against you. After a while, resentment will set in for the cause of disharmony. If you keep promoting the need for justice and righteousness, human nature will kick in and the congregation will find a way to shut you up. You have heard of "hear no evil, see no evil, and speak no evil". That will be the attitude and position taken on this issue, which you have already seen.

I know that this is not encouraging news. I am truly sorry for

one... that you and your wife are not able to reconcil.
two ...that is/was the Rabbi that has stepped in where "no man is to put asunder"
three..that those in power of this congregation have chosen to handle the situation as they have

But this is for your spiritual health, before you get completely bitter, and lose your own soul over this, I would like to step back and take stock of your situation, not as someone who is going to gain what they have lost, nor as someone who is going to get justice for the tragedy, but as someone who recognises that things are not going to improve in this direction and that it is time to let go and move on. Leave it in the Lord's hands, they are His laws and it is God who will deal with this. Your job will be to go with God, and work out a new life. Finding fault and throwing blame around will not improve any situation, not even your own.

You are soon to be biblically free to have a new life. Use this opportunity to get a closer relationship with God than you have had so far. This is a time to go climb that mountain and have a Mount Sinai experience. Take time now for your spiritual cleansing, so that you may start a new life, that is not as you have planned it, but opportunity to have a much needed spiritual journey that will be a new adventure at a deeper level with the Lord.

God will heal your wound. God has better things in store for you. It may not seem like it now, but if you draw closer to Him, and let go of all your world and allow Him to take it away and give you a new life, He will. The greatest thing you can do is spiritually grow, and not let Satan take you down with all this.

God works with us best after He has stripped us of all we have.... remember Job. At the core of your being, is the diamond, the precious jewel that the Lord has created in you. You are a pearl of great price that He has purchased. Praise the Lord, look not at the world around you, look up for now is your time to be called to a greater walk with Him.

[Mikhail]

Now this has nothing to do with biblical Paul advisory on the subject.... You are dealing with a man who has many friends within the congregation. His influence is seen and felt when dealing with this issue.... I know you know this and do not want to hear this.... BUT you are dealing with fellow human beings and the injustice of the events that have transpired will continue in the character of those people involved.

Emotionally, justice and vengence would satisfy your soul and emotional needs right now. But that would be short lived and never truly satisfying. Besides, it is not going to happen. It is going to take years for you to recover from this spiritual and emotional wound because of the difficulty in letting go. Your world has been torn apart and no one else seems to be affected by it all except you.

Whether you realize it or not Your children are...... Give them a much even keel as you can through this storm. You are still the captain of their ship until they are old enough to sail on their own. It may not seem as you have any influence in their lives, but you do by what you say and do. Try to make their lives a little more sense and stability during this trying time. Help them to grow emotionally strong and secure in your love and care for them without giving them emotional baggage that will cripple their spiritual, emotional, and maturity growth. You have responsibilities that must take a stronger role than your own wounds.

Reality is that the more you demand the more you are going to look like the bad guy in this tragedy. Sad that the congregation is unaware, but since you have put a bug in someone's ear, the gossip will spread through the congregation, and it will work for and against you. After a while, resentment will set in for the cause of disharmony. If you keep promoting the need for justice and righteousness, human nature will kick in and the congregation will find a way to shut you up. You have heard of "hear no evil, see no evil, and speak no evil". That will be the attitude and position taken on this issue, which you have already seen.

I know that this is not encouraging news. I am truly sorry for

one... that you and your wife are not able to reconcil.
two ...that is/was the Rabbi that has stepped in where "no man is to put asunder"
three..that those in power of this congregation have chosen to handle the situation as they have

But this is for your spiritual health, before you get completely bitter, and lose your own soul over this, I would like to step back and take stock of your situation, not as someone who is going to gain what they have lost, nor as someone who is going to get justice for the tragedy, but as someone who recognises that things are not going to improve in this direction and that it is time to let go and move on. Leave it in the Lord's hands, they are His laws and it is God who will deal with this. Your job will be to go with God, and work out a new life. Finding fault and throwing blame around will not improve any situation, not even your own.

You are soon to be biblically free to have a new life. Use this opportunity to get a closer relationship with God than you have had so far. This is a time to go climb that mountain and have a Mount Sinai experience. Take time now for your spiritual cleansing, so that you may start a new life, that is not as you have planned it, but opportunity to have a much needed spiritual journey that will be a new adventure at a deeper level with the Lord.

God will heal your wound. God has better things in store for you. It may not seem like it now, but if you draw closer to Him, and let go of all your world and allow Him to take it away and give you a new life, He will. The greatest thing you can do is spiritually grow, and not let Satan take you down with all this.

God works with us best after He has stripped us of all we have.... remember Job. At the core of your being, is the diamond, the precious jewel that the Lord has created in you. You are a pearl of great price that He has purchased. Praise the Lord, look not at the world around you, look up for now is your time to be called to a greater walk with Him.

Hi Visionary,
yes I had moved on and this situation followed me into this congregation that I started attending 3 months after my wife left me we were both attending another congregation at this time. This is the only Messianic congregation in my city of 3 Million. So options of going elsewhere is not available.

The spirit of Jezebel continues to follow and harass me no matter where I go so I might as well take my stand here as anywhere else. I understand know what Saul said about the thorn in his flesh if you look at what transpired in each city he went to the same type of spirit rose up against what he was doing. This is why Elohim said my grace is sufficient for you.

I am still standing for my Marriage as I have not issued a bill of divorce to her, despite what she has done and continue's to do. She has not slept with any man that I am aware of either even though she has been dating this man for several months now.

I the hardest for me is that my children have been won over by his many gifts and regular visits to their Mothers house as she has them most of the time.
Shalom,
Mikhail

[Tishri1]

Mikhail,

Have you prayed about reconciliation? What does the Father say to you about this matter?

And what has He said about the Kids as you pray about them?

I know the answers are there for you, and I will be praying that you will hear from the Father His word for you in your time of need.:pray:

[Sephania]

:prayer: yes, you do not need to go to us, you need to go to Him, pour out your heart, He knows, He feels your pain, He understands completly better than anyone. He will know what you want to do and he will also know what you should do. Follow the Ruach as he leads you in all things concerning this. :hug: :pray:

'I will recompense, saith the L-RD!"

[beej7]

:prayer: yes, you do not need to go to us, you need to go to Him, pour out your heart, He knows, He feels your pain, He understands completly better than anyone. He will know what you want to do and he will also know what you should do. Follow the Ruach as he leads you in all things concerning this. :hug: :pray:

'I will recompense, saith the L-RD!"

Ditto.

My ex-husband was abusive to me and my kids. I changed churches when we separated, and he ended up at my new church, and with much fan-fare, because he was a 'celebrity' of sorts, being an on-air announcer at the local Christian Radio Station. It was so hard on me. Everytime he was 'honored', I wanted to stand up and scream 'YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW HIM!' I don't know any thing to tell you that would bring immediate comfort, except the L-rd will heal your wounds if you let Him. Zayit has some very good words for you. I know it is in us to want to see those who wronged us punished, but I think He removes us from that role (of revenge or payback, or even 'righteous' punishment and judgement) and reserves it for Himself, otherwise we'd all be broken, miserable, hurt people. Your joy will return, and I believe that one way it will come is in forgiveness.

Pray, pray, and pray. Let Ruach HaShem comfort you, to pour the healing ointment of His Word over you and through you. It is His will for your life you are looking for.

Shalom
Beej

[Mikhail]

Mikhail,

Have you prayed about reconciliation? What does the Father say to you about this matter?

And what has He said about the Kids as you pray about them?

I know the answers are there for you, and I will be praying that you will hear from the Father His word for you in your time of need.:pray:

Hi Tishri,
I have prayed about reconcilliation so many times and practically I have initiated rounds of counselling with 2 seperate Counsellors in addition to the counsellors we first saw after she left. She cancelled the last 2 counsellors. She filed for divorce to the local court and got it without me being involved.

Or do you mean something else.
Regarding the children I beleive they will be removed from her care and put into mine.
Mikhail'

[Mikhail]

:prayer: yes, you do not need to go to us, you need to go to Him, pour out your heart, He knows, He feels your pain, He understands completly better than anyone. He will know what you want to do and he will also know what you should do. Follow the Ruach as he leads you in all things concerning this. :hug: :pray:

'I will recompense, saith the L-RD!"

Hi Zayit,
yes I do, do this and the Ruach does lead me.
Always good to be reminded of the basic truth as well.
Shalom,
Mikhail

[Bananna]

I'm sorry this is going on.
How you show love to those that do evil toward you, shows who you worship. God allowed this test in your life. I'm praying you stand well, in the light of HIS love.

bananna

[Sephania]

Yes Mikhail, follow Yeshua's words Matt 5:44 and you shall heap coals as in the Proverbs and quoted by Sh'aul in Romans 12. :)

[Tishri1]

Hi Tishri,
I have prayed about reconcilliation so many times and practically I have initiated rounds of counselling with 2 seperate Counsellors in addition to the counsellors we first saw after she left. She cancelled the last 2 counsellors. She filed for divorce to the local court and got it without me being involved.

Or do you mean something else.
Regarding the children I beleive they will be removed from her care and put into mine.
Mikhail'What I ment was did you hear the Fathers voice bout this issue and what has He said about the kids? I will pray for you today that you will get some direction from Him if you haven't already:pray: He knows what you need and He will direct you on how to walk this out. Please forgive me if you have heared Him on this and I am giving stale advice:blush:

[Mikhail]

What I ment was did you hear the Fathers voice bout this issue and what has He said about the kids? I will pray for you today that you will get some direction from Him if you haven't already:pray: He knows what you need and He will direct you on how to walk this out. Please forgive me if you have heared Him on this and I am giving stale advice:blush:

Yes I have heard him constantly even on the do that she left the Ruach HaKodesh said that this was a day of breakthrough he just neglected to tell who was breaking through, I can even smile.

It is interesting my wife is a very attractive Petite (5 Foot) 37 year old woman, and of all the men she could have started to go out with after she left she chose to accept the advances of a 63 year old Rabbi. So I do not doubt that God has had a hand in setting this up to judge the attitudes of al of us who he has brought into this situation.

Interesting the Congregational leader is more interested that I am Torah Observant and sees it as a threat he ended and email to me by saying quote "So, the bottom line is, yes, if you don’t like the leadership of B... H......... you don’t have put up with it. You’re welcome to leave anytime and in fact, keep up the kind of tone that is in this email to me and you will be asked to leave pretty smartly. I don’t have to put up with your legalistic ****."

This email was asking that I be given the same respect that they expect of others ie not going around teling people they are going to hell if they do not keep torah, something that I have never done either.

As I have done in the past I say what I beleive is right and when told to shutup and not communicate further I do so and let Elohim deal with them.
Shalom,
Mikhail
PS So who else wants have a Jerimiah anointing.

[Tishri1]

well then what Vis has said about friendships and loyalty comes into play here ...that they feel devoted to the Rabbi is human nature and your probably not gonna get the support you need there anymore.

If I was you I would leave and find a new support group and release her too and focus on your kids, to love them and support their tender hearts right now by thinking only of their needs and laying down the hurt your wife and that Rabbi have caused before it turns into deep bitterness.

I will still be praying for you cause I know that even this too "...if it doesn't kill you will only make you stronger" and better prepared for whatever G-D has instore for your future and the future of your wonderful kids.

[visionary]

My prayers are for you in this most difficult time.....May God stay so close to your side, you never feel alone. I hope that like me, "Footprints in the Sand" is dead on.

[Mikhail]

well then what Vis has said about friendships and loyalty comes into play here ...that they feel devoted to the Rabbi is human nature and your probably not gonna get the support you need there anymore.

If I was you I would leave and find a new support group and release her too and focus on your kids, to love them and support their tender hearts right now by thinking only of their needs and laying down the hurt your wife and that Rabbi have caused before it turns into deep bitterness.

I will still be praying for you cause I know that even this too "...if it doesn't kill you will only make you stronger" and better prepared for whatever G-D has instore for your future and the future of your wonderful kids.

Yes I understand that, but just to clarify it my wife and this Rabbi are no longer at this Messianic congregation, he was visiting for the first time since he was stepped down last year.
I certainly do not hold any bitterness in fact I pray for both my wife and this rabbi to understand the love of the YHWH.

For those of you that do not have a Revelation of the abundant love of the father as I have experienced over the last 2 years I can understand that you think I am just in denial or suppressing my true feelings.

I now understand how Joseph could relate to his brothers the way he did and not have hatred and revenge toward them. His brothers did not have this revelation shich is why they thought he would take revenge on them when Ya'acov went to be with his fathers.
Shabbat Shalom,
Mikhail

[Bon]

Yes I understand that, but just to clarify it my wife and this Rabbi are no longer at this Messianic congregation, he was visiting for the first time since he was stepped down last year.

Shabbat Shalom,
Mikhail

Hi Mikhail,

Where are your wife and Rabbi attending now then? There is no other congregation in Melbourne.

Gosh! I was considering coming along to this congregaton for some fellowship when my son is of a reasonable age, but I will re-think this now.

What a difficult position you have been placed in. My heart goes out to you Mikhail. :hug:

I pray Yahweh gives you the wisdom and strength to act according to His will.

Shabbat Shalom from Bon

[Mikhail]

Hi Mikhail,

Where are your wife and Rabbi attending now then? There is no other congregation in Melbourne.

Gosh! I was considering coming along to this congregaton for some fellowship when my son is of a reasonable age, but I will re-think this now.

What a difficult position you have been placed in. My heart goes out to you Mikhail. :hug:

I pray Yahweh gives you the wisdom and strength to act according to His will.

Shabbat Shalom from Bon

mmm I realised after my post that you would be more familiar with who the individuals are.

She goes to Bayside Christ**n Ch*rch pastored by Rob B..... he does the morning slot of the Light FM each weekday he preaches a message that justifies various reasons why a beleiver is justified at filing for divorce he is New Age coated with Christian Jargon, it's a pity as he has considerable influence over the Christian Media in this country. His 2 Part message on this was aired on the christian radio over 2 sundays and a friend told me he saw it on the ACCC he said he felt sick in his stomach as he listened to him preach on marriage and divorce.

I have no idea were Rabbi H...V... goes I do know that he still preaches at various congregations around Australia.

Please do come as YHWH leads you, sometimes when Elohim is cleaning out the stall the stink is worse than before it was disturbed. I am praying that this is for his glory and that what will result in the long term will be a wonderful testimony for his name than a lot of people just parking that butts on pews for a few hours and calling that fellowship with one another.
Shabbat Shalom,
Mikhail