God of Christianity and Judaism?

[jlujan69]

It's pretty evident by looking at the Muslim belief about salvation, Jesus, and the Bible that Christians and Muslims don't really worship the same God (at least to me it is). However, the stickier problem is what about the Jews (those who practice Judaism, that is)? As far as I know, they believe the Torah, Prophets, Psalms, and Wisdom books are from God and endeavor to follow them. Obviously, they don't follow the NT. Their views on salvation tend to be works based. I also remember that Scripture tells us that "..who has not the Son has not the Father" and "..whoever does not believe is condemned already because he believes not in the only begotten Son of God." Just from those and other passages, it would seem to indicate that we (Christians) and Jews don't worship the same God. But then again, Paul tells us Gentile believers not to get too cocky about the whole thing because as wild olive shoots, we're grafted in to the Vine. This being made possible only because some of the natural shoots (Jews who don't accept Messiah Jesus) were removed for unbelief. So, how do we resolve this? While we know the Jews to be God's ancient covenant people and He's certainly not finished with Israel yet, still do they in fact worship God though they don't worship Him through the Son (remember that Jesus said that no one comes to the Father except by Him)? If we say that they do worship the same God as us, then why not the Muslims (who actually hold Jesus in higher regard than Judaism) also? This is definitely a bit of a quandary.

[e=mv^2]

Do some investigation into "Allah" and "Moon God". That might reveal something. Seems like an odd place for this thread - were you looking for a specifically fund. point of view on this?

[Shane Roach]

It's pretty evident by looking at the Muslim belief about salvation, Jesus, and the Bible that Christians and Muslims don't really worship the same God (at least to me it is). However, the stickier problem is what about the Jews (those who practice Judaism, that is)? As far as I know, they believe the Torah, Prophets, Psalms, and Wisdom books are from God and endeavor to follow them. Obviously, they don't follow the NT. Their views on salvation tend to be works based. I also remember that Scripture tells us that "..who has not the Son has not the Father" and "..whoever does not believe is condemned already because he believes not in the only begotten Son of God." Just from those and other passages, it would seem to indicate that we (Christians) and Jews don't worship the same God. But then again, Paul tells us Gentile believers not to get too cocky about the whole thing because as wild olive shoots, we're grafted in to the Vine. This being made possible only because some of the natural shoots (Jews who don't accept Messiah Jesus) were removed for unbelief. So, how do we resolve this? While we know the Jews to be God's ancient covenant people and He's certainly not finished with Israel yet, still do they in fact worship God though they don't worship Him through the Son (remember that Jesus said that no one comes to the Father except by Him)? If we say that they do worship the same God as us, then why not the Muslims (who actually hold Jesus in higher regard than Judaism) also? This is definitely a bit of a quandary.

There are Jews who also believe in Christ. They are called Messianic Jews. I do not know the history of Messianic Judaism, or how the Church in Jerusalem fared in the early days, but the bottom line is that there were promises of God left unfulfilled, according to some, and they will be fulfilled in the second coming and Millenial reign, according to some. I happen to believe that myself, though I don't consider myself enough of an expert on it to enlighten much.

As for Islaam, I have to be a little less than politically correct. It was invented about 500 or 600 A.D. if I recall corectly, and the history of the religion is one of military conquest. This gets even more complicated than my beliefs about end times and Judaism, but to make a long story short I think it is a twisting of the truth to compare the military exploits of Christians to those of Islaam. For one thing, I don't believe everyone who went to war in the name of Christianity was doing so for Christian reasons, and point number two is that the Bible does not teach Holy War for Christians, whereas Islaam does teach it for Muslims.

So, I believe that Judaism is now only true Judaism if it is combined with Christ, then there are cultural Jews, and also Jews who deny Christ, who are also cultural Jews but who also observe to various extents the OT Law. If that helps any, I will be surprised, but there it is...

[jlujan69]

Do some investigation into "Allah" and "Moon God". That might reveal something. Seems like an odd place for this thread - were you looking for a specifically fund. point of view on this?

Yes, I was. I figured this would be an ideal place since fundies come in all denominations (except ones and fives--ok, stale joke;)). As far as Allah and Moon God goes, well, I'm not committed to one side or the other on that.

[e=mv^2]

As far as Allah and Moon God goes, well, I'm not committed to one side or the other on that.

Nor am I. I do not know the hearts of muslims - I can not say wat it is that they worship. I can tell you that thier description of God is quite different from mine. I would also guess that some muslims are just as confused as anyone else.

The muslim point of view with salvation is works based. Pray 5x a day, visit mecca in your life if you can, avoid sin and do some good and you are in.

My point of view is that there is perfection and there is imperfection. Perfection destroys imperfection just by its nature. Imperfection can not make itself perfect. There is no action or set of actions that I can perform that will ever justify me. I have to be justified by perfection.

[Edouard]

Islaam, Judaism, & Christianity:

1) Christ tells us, if you love you will obey me! No questions asked :)
2) Ever heard of Jews for Jesus? :) I reccommend you give them a shot :)

More in-depth:

Jews may think they worship our God, but there is a lesser problem than not recognizing Christ. Every year they were to give a blood sacrifice at the temple - holy of holies for the atoning of sin..one problem... God doesn't live there anymore.. so how can they atone their sins??? secondly, there geneaology is lost... they cannot trace there roots to abraham.. thirdly this is the same problem the book of Romans discusses which you have quoted due to traditions of gentiles vs. jews. both being christians :)

Edouard..

[jlujan69]

Islaam, Judaism, & Christianity:

1) Christ tells us, if you love you will obey me! No questions asked :)
2) Ever heard of Jews for Jesus? :) I reccommend you give them a shot :)

More in-depth:

Jews may think they worship our God, but there is a lesser problem than not recognizing Christ. Every year they were to give a blood sacrifice at the temple - holy of holies for the atoning of sin..one problem... God doesn't live there anymore.. so how can they atone their sins??? secondly, there geneaology is lost... they cannot trace there roots to abraham.. thirdly this is the same problem the book of Romans discusses which you have quoted due to traditions of gentiles vs. jews. both being christians :)

Edouard..

I do know about JFJ and I realize there are many Messianic churches in the world. Actually, I was referring to the non-Messianics.

[Chief117]

On the issue with Muslims and Christians worshipping the same God:

It is totally untrue. God says that you can recognize him by His fruit. The fruit of the Islamic god is not the same fruit as God's. Whereas the Islamic god encourages war, militant action, and apparently things like suicide, etc., our God shows love, compassion, hates injustice, has a spirit of peace, joy, etc.

It is clear that the Muslim faith stemmed from a man who apparently saw a demon representing himself as God and thus misled the people. However, I was under the impression that Mohammed was from around 800 b.c. not 600 ad.

As far as Judaeo-Christian relations:

Of course we worship the same God. Our history DIRECTLY comes from Jewish history. Our God was, is, and always will be the same. Unfortunately, God has sent the messiah, who happened to be His Son, and there were many who did not accept Him. Jesus has proclaimed that no one gets to the Father except through the son (as someone already pointed out), and therefore Jews who do not accept Christ are in grave danger of the eternal fire.

[openup4christ]

An former muslim told me that the God he worshiped was Satan.

[Svt4Him]

I think we lose out because we don't understand the Jewishness of the Bible.

[Andyman_1970]

I think we lose out because we don't understand the Jewishness of the Bible.

I couldn't agree with you more............... :thumbsup:

[jlujan69]

After mulling this over and reading the responses here, my conclusion is that if anyone does not approach God on His terms (among those terms: through the Door, Lord Jesus and based not on our righteousness but on the righteousness of Christ), then however sincere that person is, nonetheless he is guilty of idolatry and is not worshipping the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Approaching God on our terms or asking Him to accept us on our terms is a form of idolatry because we're trying to impose our own notion of who God is onto God and expecting Him to conform to it. Somehow, I doubt that God appreciates this. It's His way or the highway, in other words.

[Jerrysch]

On the issue with Muslims and Christians worshipping the same God:

It is totally untrue. God says that you can recognize him by His fruit. The fruit of the Islamic god is not the same fruit as God's. Whereas the Islamic god encourages war, militant action, and apparently things like suicide, etc., our God shows love, compassion, hates injustice, has a spirit of peace, joy, etc.



The God of the Bible YHWH came to earth and died for sinners, that makes Him unique among all the other gods.