take a closer look at yourself...

[visionary]

James 4:1 What is causing all the quarrels and fights among you? Isn't it your desires battling inside you?often times, we get caught up in the argument, that we do not step back and see that maybe it is our sinful desires, pride, lust, weakness that is causing us to hold out on a issue. Ask yourself,... Are you defending sin?...Is this what Yeshua would do?

It also may do some good to step back and look to see why the other person is just as animate. If we see the real reason for the position, we are better able to get to the heart of the matter.

By the way, this has nothing to do with anyone on the forum, this happens to be a piece of scripture I was reading at this time and wanted to share what struck me as insight.

[Sephania]

I think that all has to do with justification, for we don't see the forrest for the trees, we see what we want to see because we aren't ready to give something up, we can't admit it is a sin, because therefore we would be sinning and so we justify, searching for scriptures to back up our "position", but it doesn't matter how you wrap it, if it is sin, then all the pretty wrapping paper in the world won't make it a gift.

[visionary]

amen ... Zayit... exactly... you said it so much better.

[Bananna]

Well I went from reading this to having to intercede, tactfully between two family members that went from their original points to drag up ever past issue under the sun...

Yuk. Fortunatelly there was hugs for all. They didn't agree but were able to resolve.
Ultimately we must submit to Christ and obey. Accusing people of all sorts of ills does not help them, think like us in our position. If someone is wrong, we need to be loving and gentile or we are going to get a fight for sure, even if they want to see it our way, no one wants to feel like they are WRONG.
bananna

[jontinoregon]

I think that all has to do with justification, for we don't see the forrest for the trees, we see what we want to see because we aren't ready to give something up, .

Read this thread and didn't reply, but after I left the thought of justification really popped up. Not so much in sin, but two friends of mine tend to argue because they want to justify their positions, very often they are arguing the same side of the issue, but because their main interest is to support themselves, they don't realize they agree with each other. (:angel: glad I never have that problem:D )

[Sephania]

Aren't we all? ;)

[Ahavah]

I do believe childeren are the best justifiers of their actions...either right or wrong.
My son is constantly justifying his actions... so he won't get in trouble, but just by the fact he justifies...can get him in trouble sometimes.
So what does that say about us when we justify are actions? We are yet children? It really is amazing how much GRACE G-d has with us.

[Tishri1]

There is alot of insecurity in people who are "hankering to fight" all the time. It is a sign that some where there is resentment or bitterness "lurking about" and it's time to get before the Father and work it out with him.

Remember that HaSatan is looking for an in road into our lives and he usually uses our vunerable relationships to cause us temptation to remain bitter at someone (and sin against them thu unforgiveness)

We must be as careful as we were last week at cleaning out and keeping our hearts free of leaven...the sign that HaSatan is at work is- what is coming out of our own mouths:pray:

[jontinoregon]

Just reading in the Chofetz Chaim that when a Jew says something derogatory about another Jew (lashon hora, evil tongue, gossip) that it allows the adversary to expose all the faults and failings of both the speaker and the one spoken of to accuse them before God. But until then the accuser is without accusation against them. Interesting thought.

[Shimshon]

Yes, very interesting, that you don't see it's relation to Torah. When Torah declared your sins, they exposed both the people and the levi. Both were exposed to the judgement defined in the Torah. If no Torah of Moshe was given, there would be nothing for the Adversary to accuse you of. This is the Torah of sin and death, it 'exposes' the sin of every heart. Until the law was given (Torah) the accusser is without accusation against us. But this accusation, this exposure to judgement has been dealt with, and removed. Our transgressions have been removed. How? By removing that which 'exposed' our transgression. Now we in Yeshua have nothing but salvation to be exposed to. As he took the punishment of sin and death upon himself, releasing us from it. In union with him. Before he was dead, he was bound by his Torah. After his resurection he is bound by his Torah, of LIFE, not sin and death. New Covenant, not old.

[aleph-bet]

Yes, very interesting, that you don't see it's relation to Torah. When Torah declared your sins, they exposed both the people and the levi. Both were exposed to the judgement defined in the Torah. If no Torah of Moshe was given, there would be nothing for the Adversary to accuse you of. This is the Torah of sin and death, it 'exposes' the sin of every heart. Until the law was given (Torah) the accusser is without accusation against us. But this accusation, this exposure to judgement has been dealt with, and removed. Our transgressions have been removed. How? By removing that which 'exposed' our transgression. Now we in Yeshua have nothing but salvation to be exposed to. As he took the punishment of sin and death upon himself, releasing us from it. In union with him. Before he was dead, he was bound by his Torah. After his resurection he is bound by his Torah, of LIFE, not sin and death. New Covenant, not old.Shimshon...you are on to something. Got Torah?:amen:

[chunkofcoal]

Yes, very interesting, that you don't see it's relation to Torah. When Torah declared your sins, they exposed both the people and the levi. Both were exposed to the judgement defined in the Torah. If no Torah of Moshe was given, there would be nothing for the Adversary to accuse you of. This is the Torah of sin and death, it 'exposes' the sin of every heart. Until the law was given (Torah) the accusser is without accusation against us. But this accusation, this exposure to judgement has been dealt with, and removed. Our transgressions have been removed. How? By removing that which 'exposed' our transgression. Now we in Yeshua have nothing but salvation to be exposed to. As he took the punishment of sin and death upon himself, releasing us from it. In union with him. Before he was dead, he was bound by his Torah. After his resurection he is bound by his Torah, of LIFE, not sin and death. New Covenant, not old.

And what was "nailed to the cross" was not the law but the things the accuser accuses us of ? - "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it (or "in himself")." Colossians 2:14-15

[Tishri1]

And what was "nailed to the cross" was not the law but the things the accuser accuses us of ? - "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it (or "in himself")." Colossians 2:14-15
AMEN Chunkofcoal!:clap:
Colossians 3:5-9 5 (a)Therefore (1)consider (b)the members of your earthly body as dead to (2c)immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which 3)amounts to idolatry. 6 For it is on account of these things that (a)the wrath of God will (1)come, 7 and (a)in them you also once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you also, (a)put them all aside: (b)anger, wrath, malice, slander, and (c)abusive speech from your mouth. 9 (1a)Do not lie to one another, since you (b)laid aside the old (2)self with its evil practices,
:clap:

[Shimshon]

And what was "nailed to the cross" was not the law but the things the accuser accuses us of ? - "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it (or "in himself")." Colossians 2:14-15 You included this in your post but I don't think you caught it's meaning.

Yochanan 5:45 "But don't think that it is I who will be your accuser before the Father. Do you know who will accuse you? Moshe, the very one you have counted on!46 For if you really believed Moshe, you would believe me; because it was about me that he wrote. 47 But if you don't believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"

Shaul was refering to the very real fact that the Law was OVER you as long as you lived. It revealed your every sin, magnified them so to show you how much you need Yeshua. THIS was the purpose of the Torah given Moshe. Yeshua revealed it in person, Shaul repeated the teaching in Colossians.

What was repeated endlessly by levitical cohanim because it held now power to bring forth salvation, was accomplished ONCE AND FOR ALL time by Yeshua. No more need for the shadow and patterns, the Light has come and made the way where men could not. <-----Good News...... Jews are not bound under sin nor it's Torah that magnified it so to bring about Yeshua. Gentiles are not bound under sin nor it's Torah(pagan wickedness), that magnified their distance from the Elohay of Yisrael. BOTH are released from the bondage of sin, AND DEATH, to live a life in union with Yeshua, in Spirit and Truth. In Love, for which there is NO Torah against it, EVER!

[Ahavah]

No more need for the shadow and patterns, the Light has come and made the way where men could not. <-----Good News...... Jews are not bound under sin nor it's Torah that magnified it so to bring about Yeshua. Gentiles are not bound under sin nor it's Torah(pagan wickedness), that magnified their distance from the Elohay of Yisrael. BOTH are released from the bondage of sin, AND DEATH, to live a life in union with Yeshua, in Spirit and Truth. In Love, for which there is NO Torah against it, EVER!:thumbsup: AMEN SHIMSHON:clap: