Your ideal church

[plum]

I was in a seminar class this semester that took one day to have a discussion about the ideal church. What would it look like? what would you change about church (maybe your church in particular) today if you could?

If you could create a church right now, what would it be like?
Here are some categories to get you thinking:
Location (rural? urban? anywhere? house? building? flexible?)
Leadership
Time (length, when, what day)
Order/Program (what would the meeting look like)
Money handling (in-church and out-of-church)
During the week (what would go on on other days)
Ministries (what outreach, community oriented ministries? any particular kinds)
Size (how big is the ideal and what would happen with expansion and growth? also, is it more inclusivist to encourage intimate community? or can anyone at all just come and go? how are new people treated and brought in?)
Missions
Purpose

[Bevlina]

Well, actually missju, we don't start churches, nor would we want to go into all those details concerning a church. We meet at a house.

[plum]

I am well aware of house churches :) but a house church is still a church. or if you'd prefer me not to use that word... it's still a gathering of believers who come together to do something for some reason... and that is why I ask :)

[2+2=5]

Alright I’ll give it a stab!

“Location (rural? urban? anywhere? house? building? flexible?)”
Preferably in a home; but I am flexible as long as it stays relatively small.
“Leadership”
Plurality of Elders, (i could go into a lot more detail but that will suffice for now. :) )
“Time (length, when, what day)”
Sunday, “when” and “length” is flexible.
“Order/Program (what would the meeting look like)”In agreement with 1 Cor 14:26.
“Money handling (in-church and out-of-church)”
Still thinking on that one.. for now they could just give all the money to me. :P
“During the week (what would go on on other days)”
Fellowshipping during the week, maybe a prayer meeting, bible study, etc..
“Ministries (what outreach, community oriented ministries? any particular kinds)”Quite simply, just getting out there!
“Size (how big is the ideal and what would happen with expansion and growth? also, is it more inclusivist to encourage intimate community? or can anyone at all just come and go? how are new people treated and brought in?)”Size would however many could reasonably fit into a house. Growth would be multiplying into multiple churches. Visitors would of course be welcome! But their would be a core group who would be consistent in attendance.
“Missions”
Still working out the details on this one..
Purpose”
Primarily edification.

So, What would your ideal church look like missju?

[snigglefrig]

the church is in the heart. the people of today that look at the building as the church are missing the boat. you ask "what would you do to cange your church?" reach out to more people to see that the "trappings" that surround them at their church are getting in the way of true worship. I always go to a church in blue jeans and tee shirt just to see reaction. God is a "come as you are " God. as long as what is in your heart is true and believing that is what counts.

[plum]

My ideal church.... could possibly look like this:

Location (rural? urban? anywhere? house? building? flexible?)
I like the idea of a church being a community. I'd either love a house church model (meeting in homes or outside) or a co-housing community meeting hall kind of setting. The church gathering would be made up of those who lived in the community and who came together for large corporate worship once or twice a week (Saturdays for Shabbat and Wednesdays for prayer, worship, arts-based programs, etc. would be nice).

Leadership
There is one Rabbi: Messiah. He is looked to for an example for everything. But there are so many with gifts of teaching, counseling, encouraging, evangelism, etc. There are leaders among them. I think the congregation could rotate speakers during Gathering times too. This is a tough issue too. Not many people like to have more than one leader.

Time (length, when, what day)
The congregation would be split up into smaller groups perhaps divided by neighborhood or by ministry. Dunno. I think during the week, the small groups would live as large family, taking care of one another, sharing things in common, etc. Intimacy.

Order/Program (what would the meeting look like)
Something really important to me is flexibility. Wednesdays could be a day for this flexibility. Different ministries could have a focus for a community gathering time. They could do whatever they felt lead to do. Shabbat could be more liturgical in feeling. But flexibility and all ears wide open for the Spirit.

Money handling (in-church and out-of-church)
I love the idea of generous living. BEcause my ideal is a co-housing community, it'd be great to live as the Church in Jerusalem did. People can keep their private property, but there is no one in need. All belongs to God anyway, and we are a family. It would be nice to live this way with a larger community I think. Difficult because of sin, but awesome.

During the week (what would go on on other days)
I mentioned this above, basically. But the house church/small groups would be a support group for one another. They would be a team. Do ministry together, take care of each other's children, etc. Yeshua is LIFE, and all of it. This means every day.

Ministries (what outreach, community oriented ministries? any particular kinds)
We all have hearts for different people, ideas, ministries (whatever you like to call them). Mine is a passion for the persecuted, the poor, and creating close intimate community. I would hope this church would encourage ALL gifts and allow room for any member's imagination to grow into the illustrationn of their passion. If they love the homeless, we could set up a food bank. If they love the rich and depressed, they could invite those people especially to church and help them find meaning, etc. Why stop at one or two when the community as a whole can do so much?

Size (how big is the ideal and what would happen with expansion and growth? also, is it more inclusivist to encourage intimate community? or can anyone at all just come and go? how are new people treated and brought in?)
I would love it if this gathering of believers was intimate enough for serious family life and generous living, but yet always open and loving to all who come hungry or curious. If growth happened, the community could grow and small groups could break off and spread. There could still be a community meeting unless it got TOO big and then there could be a "church plant" type of process where another community is built up or started.

Missions
Love, love, love. Love, love love. Yeshua told us to tell everyone that the reign of the Only God was HERE. And to teach all that He commands. Make disciples of Yeshua. Not make disciples of ourselves or a really cool pastor... but of Yeshua alone. Basically, point the way and walk with them as fellow disciples. My small group teacher says, "I'm just a bum telling the other bums where the food is." Whatever comes out of THAT, I saw AMEN to! Amen and Amen! Worldwide, next door, whatever.

[Svt4Him]

the church is in the heart. the people of today that look at the building as the church are missing the boat. you ask "what would you do to cange your church?" reach out to more people to see that the "trappings" that surround them at their church are getting in the way of true worship. I always go to a church in blue jeans and tee shirt just to see reaction. God is a "come as you are " God. as long as what is in your heart is true and believing that is what counts.

I do go to church in blue jeans and a tee shirt. So? And very few of 'us' look at the building as the actual church.

That said, an ideal church imo is one that loves each other, eats together and has an element of danger to it. By that I mean they do things like missions and evangelism.

[tattedschmoe]

my ideal church is this ministry that i for awhile i went to.

we met up at 11am, to have fellowship. fellowship was playing DND, and it wasn't the DND that made it good, it was the fellowship. we played from 11am till 5pm. we'd have pizza for lunch and then go back to having fellowship. then around 5:30, the pastor's wife would fix supper for all who would come. then we met downtown at a building and had our Bible study around 7pm. the building is right next to one of the big gay bars in the city. it was at the heart of where a need is. we'd have a poor man come in and stay for a little bit. the talks were more of progression in the faith, not redundant sermons that all you can do is say your amens too. it was actually things that made you think again about something in a new light. the study would go from 7pm till most of the time around 9:30pm, sometimes 10pm, and then we'd have more fellowship till around 11pmish or later. it was all day thing of study, and fellowship with each other.

[discernomatic]

Ideal Church is a big subject. But I'll try to keep it short. Here is what I would like:

Leadership- Jesus Christ is the leader and we follow him best when we are steeped in Scripture and prayer and are open to the Holy Spirit. If a person should be singled out as leader he should answer to the description Paul gives in Scripture. Love, mercy and humbleness as well as being the most knowledgeable or nearly the most knowledgeable Scripturewise in the group. Some elders could be singled out too, so that the burden would be lighter on that one person. Everyone should carry his part and not just go along for the ride.

Everyone should be loving in the group and ready to help the others as needed whether financially, with labor or encouragement.

If the believers meet in an informal home setting this discourages dressing up, at least for some and all behave more naturally, which is conducive to what I feel is true fellowship.

I love discussing Scripture, so perhaps some time for spontaneous discussion should be allowed where any themes can be handled and some time for prepared discussion, about themes that one has already done some homework on. Everyone should take part in some sort of bible study. No exceptions on this one.

Meeting once a week is sometimes too often for me, and I do not have time to spend the whole day at church if I want to study the bible. Regular meetings can be less often and meeting between times should be encouraged in smaller groups. Sometimes you just have to make a bit of time and pick up the phone and get someone over for coffee or go to their house. This kind of fellowshipping suits me best.

If there is any order, the sermon, given by one of the elders or another whose subject has been approved by them should be given before any songs are sung. Music is used to make people more open to suggestion, and everyone should have their head screwed on straight when hearing any sermon, so that he can judge if it is true or false doctrine.

True doctrines should be studied and compared to false doctrines - current false doctrines that are infiltrating the Church. These can then be more quickly recognized by members, rather than having them unwittingly exchanging these false ideas as truth when loaning out "inspiring" books or tapes to one another. Every new fashion introduced to churches, and this includes the latest books and gimmicks, should be read and scrutinized by the elders before rendering them acceptable or non acceptable. The reasons for their decision must be clear to all and scripturally proven.

The main message should be the gospel, unadorned. Then good Scriptural doctrine without legalism. No rules for dress (except modesty) and no rules for diet. Everyone should love and respect the others. The atmosphere should be free and loving, but not chaotic.

I am not in favor of pentecostalism, so I wouldn't want any of that in the church I would go to. I believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but not that they are manifested in a supernatural way every day or even every week.

I can't go into every detail, but those are the main points I am looking for in a church.

[plum]

Thanks for the thought-full post!

[Valerie090101]

My ideal Church would be one in my home town (which is small, so there are a limited number of Churches in the area), friendly and open, and willigly accepts new members. I have attended only a few Churches in my lifetime, and those, sadly, were qualities they were lacking. I truly hope to find a Church soon. :)