The Trinity - in General Theology

[Protoevangel]

Would some Confessional brother or sister mind checking my posts over in The Trinity (http://www.christianforums.com/t1535037-the-trinity.html) - in General Theology, and let me know if I am loosing my mind or not. Has deu58 correctly called me on my hypocricy, or am I doing as I claim, and dividing the issues correctly?

Before the Creed is held up, I want to say I do know and confess the Athanasian Creed, conceptually, but not necessarily punitively. Law vs. Gospel.

[Protoevangel]

Hey guys,

I saw a couple of you over there, so don't pretend you didn't notice! ;) :D :P

I know I got a little obstreperous there a couple of times. So go ahead and let me have it.

[SPALATIN]

Would some Confessional brother or sister mind checking my posts over in The Trinity (http://www.christianforums.com/t1535037-the-trinity.html) - in General Theology, and let me know if I am loosing my mind or not. Has deu58 correctly called me on my hypocricy, or am I doing as I claim, and dividing the issues correctly?

Before the Creed is held up, I want to say I do know and confess the Athanasian Creed, conceptually, but not necessarily punitively. Law vs. Gospel.

I think that for the most part you have it right. there is one post where you say that the law says we should love our neighbors. The Gospel to that is God helps you to love your neighbors and do what is right mainly because the law only defines the sickness, but the Gospel gives you the cure for the sickness.

I am going to ask the question on LQ about whether having a knowledge of the Trinity is important for salvation or not as I am not entirely sure about it the way the OP was asking. I know that we confess the creeds and in so doing acknowledge the trinity.

[CrossWiseMag]

I can tell you that you are, indeed, losing your mind. I know this because you are bothering to argue with people on the General Theology board.

Heretics will be with us until Christ returns. But I find American heretics to be vastly more annoying, because they truly think they've figured out something that 2,000 years of Christian theologians couldn't figure out. At least the early heretics believed they were confessing what had been confessed all along. Modern-day American heretics think they can make up whatever insane doctrine they want, and as long as it makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside, they think the Holy Spirit is confirming it to them.

My advice, which you are free to ignore, is to stop going to General Theology. Your blood pressure will drop and you'll be much happier. (It worked for me!) Use the time you save to read Martin Chemnitz. He kicks butt.

[SPALATIN]

I can tell you that you are, indeed, losing your mind. I know this because you are bothering to argue with people on the General Theology board.

Heretics will be with us until Christ returns. But I find American heretics to be vastly more annoying, because they truly think they've figured out something that 2,000 years of Christian theologians couldn't figure out. At least the early heretics believed they were confessing what had been confessed all along. Modern-day American heretics think they can make up whatever insane doctrine they want, and as long as it makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside, they think the Holy Spirit is confirming it to them.

My advice, which you are free to ignore, is to stop going to General Theology. Your blood pressure will drop and you'll be much happier. (It worked for me!) Use the time you save to read Martin Chemnitz. He kicks butt.

If only Chemnitz were in my budget. :sigh:

[Protoevangel]

I can tell you that you are, indeed, losing your mind. I know this because you are bothering to argue with people on the General Theology board.

Heretics will be with us until Christ returns. But I find American heretics to be vastly more annoying, because they truly think they've figured out something that 2,000 years of Christian theologians couldn't figure out. At least the early heretics believed they were confessing what had been confessed all along. Modern-day American heretics think they can make up whatever insane doctrine they want, and as long as it makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside, they think the Holy Spirit is confirming it to them.

My advice, which you are free to ignore, is to stop going to General Theology. Your blood pressure will drop and you'll be much happier. (It worked for me!) Use the time you save to read Martin Chemnitz. He kicks butt.This is probably the best advice I could get. I rarely go there, for this exact reason. But every once in a while, I get either a little bored or massochistic (or both) and venture over there. Ususlly my answers blend into the background and others get into the fighting, but this time I caught that one guy's attention. I'm sure I could have handled myself better.

[CrossWiseMag]

Hey, Dan, don't worry -- you're not alone in spending time in GT when you know it's bad for you!

It's like an adult bookstore next to a teenage boy's house. He knows he shouldn't go in there, but eventually his curiosity is going to probably get the best of him. ;)

[Protoevangel]

I think that for the most part you have it right. there is one post where you say that the law says we should love our neighbors. The Gospel to that is God helps you to love your neighbors and do what is right mainly because the law only defines the sickness, but the Gospel gives you the cure for the sickness.Agreed. In your example above, you illustrate the difference in Law and Gospel quite well. The Law tells us we must do so, but it is powerless to show us how or to enable us to do it. Then the Law accuses us for not doing what it said. The Gospel first says, "you are loved", and then shows us how to love back, and enables us to express that love.

I am going to ask the question on LQ about whether having a knowledge of the Trinity is important for salvation or not as I am not entirely sure about it the way the OP was asking. I know that we confess the creeds and in so doing acknowledge the trinity.
When anything becomes a "requirement", we turn it into the Law. I suppose, in that way, the very question is nonsensical. I certianly did not believe in the Trinity before I was saved. It was the Gospel that enabled me to believe, not the other way around.

Wow, now my head's spinning. That shows me right there the problem with my answer over there. I answered a Theology of Glory question to Theology of Glory people, with a Theology of the Cross mindset. Of course I would run into problems. :doh:

[SPALATIN]

Agreed. In your example above, you illustrate the difference in Law and Gospel quite well. The Law tells us we must do so, but it is powerless to show us how or to enable us to do it. Then the Law accuses us for not doing what it said. The Gospel first says, "you are loved", and then shows us how to love back, and enables us to express that love.


When anything becomes a "requirement", we turn it into the Law. I suppose, in that way, the very question is nonsensical. I certianly did not believe in the Trinity before I was saved. It was the Gospel that enabled me to believe, not the other way around.

Wow, now my head's spinning. That shows me right there the problem with my answer over there. I answered a Theology of Glory question to Theology of Glory people, with a Theology of the Cross mindset. Of course I would run into problems. :doh:

One of the answers I saw on LQ in regards to my posting the OP from
"The Trinity" over there is from Sandra O.

]"Oneness" is also known as the ancient heresy of "modalism". Denying the Trinity is denying God's nature. The Athanasian Creed is clear.[/color]

[Protoevangel]

Thanks Scott.

Just thinking out loud here, please feel free to chime in:

If it is stated as a requirement, then it is Law, pure and simple. And our Justification is not based on the Law.

So, I think the problem is category; the way the question is phrased.

"Is a belief in the Trinity a requirement for Salvation" is a categorically false question. Instead, should the question be, "Will someone who has been filled with the Holy Spirit, deny the Trinity". I have been looking at the question itself wrongly this whole time.

[SPALATIN]

Thanks Scott.

Just thinking out loud here, please feel free to chime in:

If it is stated as a requirement, then it is Law, pure and simple. And our Justification is not based on the Law.

So, I think the problem is category; the way the question is phrased.

"Is a belief in the Trinity a requirement for Salvation" is a categorically false question. Instead, should the question be, "Will someone who has been filled with the Holy Spirit, deny the Trinity". I have been looking at the question itself wrongly this whole time.

Dan,

Probably why CWM says it is a virtual waste of time to go into GT because they will always phrase questions from their mindset and then we are either forced to answer it in their terms or like you say re-phrase the question to help them understand what it is they are really asking.

Scott

EDIT: Dan,

I put the re-phrased question you posed above in the GT thread. Let's go there every few hours and see how they respond to it.

Scott