Sexual intercourse

[MisterPascal]

Our church is having several discussions on human sexuality (yeah, the whole gambit!). I remember reading years back that non-Christian Jews do not believe in Original Sin. OK. I also read that they (or many Jews) believe(d) that the sexual act in and of itself (between man and woman) is sinful but a necessary evil in order to procreate and populate the earth. Could someone elaborate on this and if it is a commonly held belief in Judaism (and even among Messianic Jews?) or just a belief by some? Thanks for your help!

[simchat_torah]

I have never heard the idea that sex itself is sinful! This is not a Jewish concept.... at least not in mainstream Judaism.

Many don't realize, as well, how sexual the bible really is. The original language of the Tenach (ot) is quite graphic and sexually oriented.

[Sephania]

That is mainly the Orthodox view. It is in line with the commandment to be fruitful and multiply. The belief is that sex is the one of the greatest things that causes one to sin the most and therefore one must have tight control on oneself. I believe that is true as well but am not orthodox. They also believe that it is the womans right to have her husband make love to her, not the other way around. :)

[Sephania]

Simchat is right, sex itself is not sinful, G-d created this Himself, it is where a husband and wife become Echad, . But when used in the wrong way or with the wrong person then it becomes sinful, that which was made for something special to be only shared by two is denigrated when not done in the manner the L-RD intended. Even Yeshua said that it becomes sin even when it is only done in your mind.

[rooster]

I think what you mentioned is more along the lines of what muslims believe. That sex is sinful and therefore only functional and any pleasure derived from it is wrong.

[simchat_torah]

They also believe that it is the womans right to have her husband make love to her, not the other way around. :)Bingo.

It is the man's obligation, not the woman's. It is the woman's right, not the man's.

Interesting, isn't it?

[Sephania]

From a woman's point of view I find that very interesting as well as beneficial. my husband and I practice the purity laws but have not always, but I can tell you this, the L-RD's way is ALWAYS the best. He who made our bodies and minds knows exactly how they should work in perfect harmony. When we try to go against this it is not only wrong, but detrimental from any angle you look at it, be it morally, intimatley, spiritually, etc.

I think that the halacha for the woman's right, keeps men from being animals, and helps to learn self-control and be more aware and sensitive of the woman. :)

[Plan 9]

Viktor Frankl taught that if sexual relations between husband and wife are pursued in order to give meaning to the marriage, then sexual gratification will naturally follow, but that if the couple are seeking gratification in and of itself, then gratification won't result. (Man's Search for Meaning)
Earlier, in his concentration camp narrative, he speaks of communing with his wife, and that if he had known at the time she was dead, it would have made no difference, because of the deep meaning her love gave his existence.
I'm not saying this part at all well; you would have to read him yourself, I think.
DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER: fresh hanky supply required when reading Man's Search for Meaning!

[Hix]

"Kosher sex" is actually very much a mitzvah when performed correctly according the way G-d has ordained. I would invite everyone to read JewFAQ's explaination on this here: http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm

[MisterPascal]

Thanks for everyone's input!

[SpiritPsalmist]

Our church is having several discussions on human sexuality (yeah, the whole gambit!). I remember reading years back that non-Christian Jews do not believe in Original Sin. OK. I also read that they (or many Jews) believe(d) that the sexual act in and of itself (between man and woman) is sinful but a necessary evil in order to procreate and populate the earth. Could someone elaborate on this and if it is a commonly held belief in Judaism (and even among Messianic Jews?) or just a belief by some? Thanks for your help!I've been studying books on Judaism and they have high regard for sex. It is considered a holy act between husband and wife.

[RightwingConspirator]

From a woman's point of view I find that very interesting as well as beneficial. my husband and I practice the purity laws but have not always, but I can tell you this, the L-RD's way is ALWAYS the best. He who made our bodies and minds knows exactly how they should work in perfect harmony. When we try to go against this it is not only wrong, but detrimental from any angle you look at it, be it morally, intimatley, spiritually, etc.

I think that the halacha for the woman's right, keeps men from being animals, and helps to learn self-control and be more aware and sensitive of the woman. :)

Do Messianic Jews believe this too? or just Jewish or Orthodox-Jew nonchristians? That it is the woman's right to have sex with her husband and not the other way around so the man doesn't end up forcing himself on her without love?

[Sephania]

I am sure you are to get many opinions on this, else it would'nt be Judaism! For myself, yes we believe this, it is written in many a Ketubah. Despite the mitzvah to be fruitful, In Judaism sex is seen as a bonding agent in a marriage. It requires commitment and responsibility first so is not acceptable outside the marriage. Joyful times are when sex is allowable, and on a mutual basis, not forced in any way or during times of fasting or mourning. You may also not have sex when drunk or fighting as many heathens do and have sex mostly during one of these times.

In Judaism, a woman has three basic rights or needs that her husband is required to meet.

1. Is to cloth her
2. Is to feed her
3. Is to give her sex when she wants it and make it a pleasurable experience for her.

This is very different then from Islam, nu? How can we share the same G-d? ;)

[Henaynei]

Well said Zayit!! Bravo!

[Sephania]

Todah! :)