I'm sick of hearing heaven preached. . . It's Jesus!

[Unnamed Servant]

I am not blaming certain individuals, just making an observation.

From what I have experienced and heard in many churches, , many "Christians" are "evangelizing" with an offering of heaven emphasized more than Christ. We see it on tracts, hear it on tv, and sadly hear it from some of our pastors: "How do you get to heaven?, or To get to heaven you must. . . ". This is many times used as an entrance line in witnessing.

We should not be leading children in prayers so that they can go to heaven when they die, but preaching to them that Jesus is the chief desire and satisfaction of our hearts, and everything good is because of Him. David knew that God was the only thing worth living for when he said that he could go to hell and God would be with him.

I do believe in a literal heaven in which Christ has prepared for us. I believe that it will be a reflection of his beauty. But the most amazing heaven would be a dimly lit candle to magnificence of the Son (SUN!).

So let us preach that we have been given a chance to live by Christ, and that to know Him is the only eternal satisfaction. Heaven can not call us to itself, but Christ can and has.

Sure the palace is nice, but we are going to see the King!

love-through-Christ,

US

[Gold Dragon]

:amen:

NASB - John 10:7-10 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=joh+10&t=nas&st=1&new=1&l=en)

So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.


This happens before we die.

[mesue]

I think because Jesus is the only way to gain entry into Heaven.

People may find the name Jesus offensive, but not the word Heaven. The very word, Heaven, connotes peace, riches eternal and warm fuzzies in any language or religion. Where if I were to mention Jesus, His name connotes judgement, righteousness and conviction to a lot of the lost, and because it's easier to justify the sin than to admit that it is wrong. People don't want to see their sin debt and have no idea that Jesus shed His blood for the forgivness of sin and that He is the way, the truth and the light.

It's a word used to open the door that may otherwise be nailed shut.

I have to agree that it can be over used, especially if no complete salvation message is used with the message of Heaven.

[Andyman_1970]

I think the issue becomes is that the emphasis tends to be “hey I got my ticket punched and now I’m not going to get left behind” instead of because of this spiritual rebirth through the Messiah Jesus I can now live (right now) as God created me to live.

According to the Lord’s Prayer “your will be done on earth as it is in Heaven” we can live in such a way so that we bring Heaven to earth – so the “Heaven only” preaching would seem to de-emphasize that as disciples of Jesus we are to live out His Way right now right here on earth.

Anyway I can understand that frustration.

[Flynmonkie]

Someone just recently mentioned something similar to this to me.....regarding Hell, instead of a total seperation from God....

Just interesting :)

[ZiSunka]

so, so true Unnamed Servant! Great thread!! :)

[MbiaJc]

I am not blaming certain individuals, just making an observation.

From what I have experienced and heard in many churches, , many "Christians" are "evangelizing" with an offering of heaven emphasized more than Christ. We see it on tracts, hear it on tv, and sadly hear it from some of our pastors: "How do you get to heaven?, or To get to heaven you must. . . ". This is many times used as an entrance line in witnessing.

We should not be leading children in prayers so that they can go to heaven when they die, but preaching to them that Jesus is the chief desire and satisfaction of our hearts, and everything good is because of Him. David knew that God was the only thing worth living for when he said that he could go to hell and God would be with him.

I do believe in a literal heaven in which Christ has prepared for us. I believe that it will be a reflection of his beauty. But the most amazing heaven would be a dimly lit candle to magnificence of the Son (SUN!).

So let us preach that we have been given a chance to live by Christ, and that to know Him is the only eternal satisfaction. Heaven can not call us to itself, but Christ can and has.

Sure the palace is nice, but we are going to see the King!

love-through-Christ,

US


:preach:
What difference does it make how they spread the Gospel as long as they spread it.

Man's desire is to get to heaven Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Nothing wrong with telling one how to get to heaven.

Spreading the Gospel is like buying a Whopper at Burger King, have it your way as long as its the Gospel of The Only Begotten Son Of God, Jesus the Christ. :hug:

[JPPT1974]

Paradise may be perfect and awesome but the Lord is more perfect and awesome as He is all-eternal!!

[LostnFound]

This is interesting!

My thought is, how can you really separate the two?

[Andyman_1970]

Nothing wrong with telling one how to get to heaven.


When Jesus shares the Gospel for the most part it's not in terms of "here's how you get to Heaven, pray with me now and then fill this card out........", for the most part the Gospel Jesus shares is in terms of how you live now rather than at some point in the future you get to go to Heaven. Oh and He never frames the Gospel in terms of "you don't want to go to Hell do you?".

[Willo]

I reckon we need more focus on sin in our preaching, its well and good that we focus on the warm and fuzzies, but without the knowledge of sin, how can many repent and turn from it?

People need to see the need of a Saviour, before they run to Him.

[LostnFound]

Very valid points!

sooooo....Can anyone suggest a more accurate "script" (for lack of a better term), for a quick intro to a witnessing conversation? (Did that make sense?)

[Gold Dragon]

While I generally don't support pre-canned evangelism scripts, I think at minimum, we need to emphasize that the new abundant life that Christ promised starts in this life and continues to the next. One problem is overemphasis of the next life at the exclusion of this one.

While this still appeals to the consumerist mentality of "selling the product of Christianity" by promoting what the non-Christian consumer can get out of Christianity, I think it is more in line with how Christ taught his disciples.

[Andyman_1970]

For me the Scriptures are the best source of how to share my faith with others:

1 Peter 3:15-16 "But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to anyone who asks you to give a reason for the hope you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak makiciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander."

The fundamental assumption Peter makes here is that you are living in such a way that people ask you "what's the deal". So maybe a better question than "so how many times did you share your faith this week" or "how many times did you witness this week" is "how many times were you asked about the hope you have this week?"

The world is not going to listen to us if we don't live out what we believe everyday in a real way - IMO it's time for the church to shut up and start living out what it means to be Jesus' hands and feet to the world around them.

If you're mouth was duct taped shut, would the people around you know your a fully devoted follower of Jesus? If not, then I would argue we have missed the point as to what it means to Scripturally share our faith.

Anyway, just some thoughts...................

[Andyman_1970]

While I generally don't support pre-canned evangelism scripts, I think at minimum, we need to emphasize that the new abundant life that Christ promised starts in this life and continues to the next. One problem is overemphasis of the next life at the exclusion of this one.

While this still appeals to the consumerist mentality of "selling the product of Christianity" by promoting what the non-Christian consumer can get out of Christianity, I think it is more in line with how Christ taught his disciples.

As always very well said GD................... :thumbsup:

[Willo]

I would reconmend a good place to start to learn the basics of the faith is to go to:
www.livingwaters.com (http://www.livingwaters.com)
www.wayofthemaster.com (http://www.wayofthemaster.com)
www.thegreatnews.com (http://www.thegreatnews.com)
www.biblicalevangelism.com (http://www.biblicalevangelism.com) (Free scholarship)

At living waters.com check out an audio called Hells Best Kept Secret, and True and False conversions, I highly reconmend them.

God Bless

[Andyman_1970]

I would reconmend a good place to start to learn the basics of the faith is to go to:
www.livingwaters.com (http://www.livingwaters.com)
www.wayofthemaster.com (http://www.wayofthemaster.com)
www.thegreatnews.com (http://www.thegreatnews.com)
www.biblicalevangelism.com (http://www.biblicalevangelism.com) (Free scholarship)

At living waters.com check out an audio called Hells Best Kept Secret, and True and False conversions, I highly reconmend them.

God Bless

As I said on a very related thread to this:

The problem with both Ray's and Kirk Cameron's method of sharing the Gospel is that they tend to end up with "you don't want to go to Hell do you?" - the problem is Jesus never shares the Gospel in terms like that.

The other thread I refer to: Click here (http://www.christianforums.com/t1379146-personal-witnessing—how-jesus-did-it.html)

[Unnamed Servant]

Get to know people, love them and show them you care. Ask them about their families and life. Be a servant and show them love, but speak to them the truth: that they need Jesus.

[Willo]

As I said on a very related thread to this:

The problem with both Ray's and Kirk Cameron's method of sharing the Gospel is that they tend to end up with "you don't want to go to Hell do you?" - the problem is Jesus never shares the Gospel in terms like that.

The other thread I refer to: Click here (http://www.christianforums.com/t1379146-personal-witnessing—how-jesus-did-it.html)

As I said in the other thread, Jesus spoke more on hell than He did on Heaven.

Showing someone their future location is something a wise witness should do.

Now you are good at showing what you believe Ray and Kirks problem is, now how do you witness?

[aReformedPatriot]

I cannot wait to get to heaven myself. I often day dream of it. Personally, while on earth we are to preach Christ as "the way, the truth, and the life," equally stressing "the life" part as it is an important part of the Gospel Message.

We often stress God's love, more than his Justice of eternal hellfire when we evangleize. We must preach the whole truth giving each part equality.

[Andyman_1970]

As I said in the other thread, Jesus spoke more on hell than He did on Heaven.

Showing someone their future location is something a wise witness should do.

Now you are good at showing what you believe Ray and Kirks problem is, now how do you witness?

But what was the context in which He presented it? Just because He spoke on it more than Heaven doesn't mean He presented the Gospel as "you don't want to go to Hell do you?" - He never presents the Gospel in that way, it's always in the context of a life lived now in harmony with God.

[Willo]

But what was the context in which He presented it? Just because He spoke on it more than Heaven doesn't mean He presented the Gospel as "you don't want to go to Hell do you?" - He never presents the Gospel in that way, it's always in the context of a life lived now in harmony with God.

I have to say I don't like how Kirk or Ray say that, but it isn't used all the time, and if you go through the school of biblical evangelism you dont see it taught.

Now I when I witness, I will inform a person about both Heaven and Hell, but wont tell them to choose heaven or hell, as that is the final destination.

Repentence is what needs to be preached.

[RED that's ME]

As I said on a very related thread to this:

The problem with both Ray's and Kirk Cameron's method of sharing the Gospel is that they tend to end up with "you don't want to go to Hell do you?" - the problem is Jesus never shares the Gospel in terms like that.

The other thread I refer to: Click here (http://www.christianforums.com/t1379146-personal-witnessing—how-jesus-did-it.html)

In defense of Ray and Cameron both were at my church a couple months back and Kirk spoke and he talked about being a christian not for the heaven/hell issue but he recognized his need for God and how sin separated him from God. He made it relationship based with God.

I agree that too many pastors/people preach "fire insurance salvation" instead of a "daily relationship with God" message. As it has already been said here it's the relationship with God that is important and heaven is just a plus for having that relationship.


http://www.choiceshirts.com/images/A1/01/A10107C-md.jpg

[MbiaJc]

In defense of Ray and Cameron both were at my church a couple months back and Kirk spoke and he talked about being a christian not for the heaven/hell issue but he recognized his need for God and how sin separated him from God. He made it relationship based with God.

I agree that too many pastors/people preach "fire insurance salvation" instead of a "daily relationship with God" message. As it has already been said here it's the relationship with God that is important and heaven is just a plus for having that relationship.


http://www.choiceshirts.com/images/A1/01/A10107C-md.jpg


Hi Red:

I agree with what you say. However hell fire and brimstone preaching is good ever now and then. I was saved listening to a hell fire and brimstone preacher. You are so glad, not to be going to the fire, that you have a daily walk with Jesus. Maybe at first it is out of fear, but then after awhile love takes over and the fear is gone.

I do not condim the method or messenger, as long as the true gospel message is delivered.

[Ginsu]

I like to hear a little bit of Hell fire and brimstone as well! Its a reality!

[MbiaJc]

Very valid points!

sooooo....Can anyone suggest a more accurate "script" (for lack of a better term), for a quick intro to a witnessing conversation? (Did that make sense?)

:clap:

Paul would take the interest of the hearer and turn that into a witnessing tool.

[MbiaJc]

I like to hear a little bit of Hell fire and brimstone as well! Its a reality!

:thumbsup:

In some cases it is the best way to get a sinners attention. :clap:

It not to political correct, but then political correctoness is going to be the end of us all, if we don't get a handle on it.

[Unnamed Servant]

I like to hear a little bit of Hell fire and brimstone as well! Its a reality!

I also belive that it is needed to have sermons preached on the reality of hell. These can open the eyes of people to their depravity without Christ.

BUT, and this is a big one, preaching hell and asking people to accept Christ to avoid this punishment is not the gospel. The gospel is to lay out the reality of hell and say this is true, but then saying the good news is that there is one who took on all of this wrath because of his love for us. This is what is the catalyst for true salvation, the realization of how good Christ is, and how eternally satisfying and joyous his sacrifice was for us. For it it is the kindness of Christ that leads us to repentance, not the fear of hell (Rom. 2:4).

love-through-Christ,

US

[Andyman_1970]

:thumbsup:

In some cases it is the best way to get a sinners attention. :clap:

It not to political correct, but then political correctoness is going to be the end of us all, if we don't get a handle on it.

Considering the only people Jesus preached "Hell fire and brimstone" (kind of) to was the religious leaders of the day, otherwise He never frames the Gospel in terms of "you don't want to go to Hell do you?".............I guess Jesus was polically correct if that's what you call those who don't preach Hell fire and brimstone.