Preterists and the Nicene Creed

[kern]

Do Preterists subscribe to the Nicene Creed? I've seen a few statements by non-preterists about this, but judging from the general feeling on this board towards preterists I'd rather hear this from a preterist herself.

If so, then how do you interpret "He will come again to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end" and "we look to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come"?

-Chris

[Mike Beidler]

Originally posted by kern
[B]Do Preterists subscribe to the Nicene Creed? I've seen a few statements by non-preterists about this, but judging from the general feeling on this board towards preterists I'd rather hear this from a preterist herself.


I believe every bit of it except the part where it says Christ's Second Coming is still future.

If so, then how do you interpret "He will come again to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end" and "we look to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come"?

I believe the first judging of the living and the dead (en masse) occured in AD 70. His judging of the dead since then has been ongoing with the death of every individual (Heb 9:27).

Indeed, his Kingdom, which arrived as a mustard seed with His First Coming and blossomed with His Second Coming, has no end.

As for the resurrection, I believe the general resurrection mentioned in Daniel 12 and several times in John to be referring to resurrection of the souls from Sheol/Hades in AD 70 and given either heaven as their reward or the Lake of Fire as their curse. Post-AD 70, there is no resurrection from Hades/Sheol/"the grave" seeing as Hades has been destroyed (Rev 20). Now the soul is either sent into the Lake of Fire, or "raptured" into heaven.

Preterism vs. the Nicean Creed in a nutshell ...

[armothe]

I agree with the Nicean creed except for:

"and He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead"

I believe this has already happened - circa 70AD

"In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church

I do not believe in one holy catholic church, or even one holy baptist church for that matter. Perhaps I am not sure what this phrase means, but I do believe in the one true Kingdom of God in which we now currently live.

"I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life in the age to come."

I believe the resurrection was spiritual and in the past. I do not look forward to the age to come as I already believe it is here.

-A

The Nicean Creed should *NOT* be the definition of what a Christian is, or perhaps even believes.

[jenlu]

armothe,

I believe catholic in that context means "universal"...

[Acts6:5]

Right, not Roman catholic.

[gwyyn]

so do you believe Jesus's second coming was in the flesh??

[parousia70]

If one really feels he/she must fit their preterist belief, into the framework of the creeds, I think I MAY have an answer.

Let me be clear that I do not believe the creeds are infallible. when I find the creeds to contradict scripture, I believe scripture trumps the creeds. I believe scripture should determine how we interprate the creeds, not the other way around as many here have implied.

anyway, here goes my preterist "work around" of the Creeds:

Jesus will come again,in 10,000 years, and in 1000 years, and in 100 years, and in 10 years, and next year,and next week, and tomorrow, and even later today.

The New Jerusalem is in a state of perpetual "coming" down from heaven.(Rev 21:2) Nowhere in scripture can we find that the New Jerusalem ever "stops" coming down from heaven. It is in fact an ongoing process that was inagurated in 70AD and continues forever. The Living are Judged individually, on into the future when they accept Christ, and those who do not accept Christ are judged individually upon death.

In this sense, preterism does not at all contradict the creedal proclaimation that He will come in the future, for we are blessed with an eternal future of Christ Continually "coming" in His Kingdom, to us, for salvation and Judgement.

Christ returned in 70, he is returning today, and will come again and again and again in the future, world without end, amen.

[parousia70]

Originally posted by gwyyn
so do you believe Jesus's second coming was in the flesh??

No. but it was a "Bodily" coming in His fathers Glory.

Do you believe Christ is in heaven "in the flesh" right now?

Are you saying Christ is limited to the Flesh?
Are you saying Chrits' "presense" on earth Limited to a "visible" one?

What does the Bible say?

Luke 24:31
Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight.

Where did He go when he vanished? somewhere besides earth?
Remember, this event ocourred before the one and only ascention.

Christ in fact appeared and disappeared at will many times after His resurrection, before he left earth at the ascention.

This clearly indicates that His ability to be "present" on earth is not in any way limited to the visible realm.
Limiting Christs presense on earth to a "visible" one, puts a limit on Christ's abilities that simply does not exist.

[Mike Beidler]

Originally posted by gwyyn
so do you believe Jesus's second coming was in the flesh??

He very well could have come in the flesh, but I don't believe that He necessarily had to be "seen" physically. How much of Jesus' ascension was meant when His disciples were told Jesus would return the same way He left them? Would every aspect of His ascension be repeated in His return? The answer would be, Of course not.

I believe that just as He was taken up in the clouds, so He came back the same way. Oddly enough, this picture is described in detail by Josephus (via eyewitness reports) and fulfills this prophecy to a T.

(BTW, where ever did we get that phrase: "to a T"???)

[davo]

Christ IS here Bodily -and we [believers] are it, His Church :clap: His Temple in the world.

[Rorshack]

Facinating stuff!

[Hidden Manna]

If one really feels he/she must fit their preterist belief, into the framework of the creeds, I think I MAY have an answer.

Let me be clear that I do not believe the creeds are infallible. when I find the creeds to contradict scripture, I believe scripture trumps the creeds. I believe scripture should determine how we interprate the creeds, not the other way around as many here have implied.

anyway, here goes my preterist "work around" of the Creeds:

Jesus will come again,in 10,000 years, and in 1000 years, and in 100 years, and in 10 years, and next year,and next week, and tomorrow, and even later today.

The New Jerusalem is in a state of perpetual "coming" down from heaven.(Rev 21:2) Nowhere in scripture can we find that the New Jerusalem ever "stops" coming down from heaven. It is in fact an ongoing process that was inagurated in 70AD and continues forever. The Living are Judged individually, on into the future when they accept Christ, and those who do not accept Christ are judged individually upon death.

In this sense, preterism does not at all contradict the creedal proclaimation that He will come in the future, for we are blessed with an eternal future of Christ Continually "coming" in His Kingdom, to us, for salvation and Judgement.

Christ returned in 70, he is returning today, and will come again and again and again in the future, world without end, amen.


Now that is the best thing I've read all day. Preterism really makes more sense then any other view and makes Jesus look like he knew what He was talking about.

To many in the world think Jesus was a false prophet because He did not return in the flesh in a soon or quickly time frame or when Jesus said this generation "first century" will see Him coming in the glory of the Father.

[Hidden Manna]

No. but it was a "Bodily" coming in His fathers Glory.

Do you believe Christ is in heaven "in the flesh" right now?

Are you saying Christ is limited to the Flesh?
Are you saying Chrits' "presense" on earth Limited to a "visible" one?

What does the Bible say?

Luke 24:31
Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight.

Where did He go when he vanished? somewhere besides earth?
Remember, this event ocourred before the one and only ascention.

Christ in fact appeared and disappeared at will many times after His resurrection, before he left earth at the ascention.

This clearly indicates that His ability to be "present" on earth is not in any way limited to the visible realm.
Limiting Christs presense on earth to a "visible" one, puts a limit on Christ's abilities that simply does not exist.

Good point P70
:thumbsup:

[helenofbritain]

Dopey question from a lurker... what is preterism? Apparently it has something to do with the Second Coming having happened already?

[StudentoftheWord]

It is the doctrine that believes that all prophesy has already been fulfilled including the Second Coming, most agreeing that 70 AD was consumation of this.

[helenofbritain]

Thanks!