So as not to derail the Orthodox thread...

[SirTimothy]

I found a really neat *Roman Catholic* site, which is pro women-priests, which I thought might interest some of our Anglican members--both the pro and anti. :)

Campaign for the Ordination of Women in the Roman Catholic Church (http://www.womenpriests.org/default.asp)

Timothy

[Colabomb]

I found a really neat *Roman Catholic* site, which is pro women-priests, which I thought might interest some of our Anglican members--both the pro and anti. :)

Campaign for the Ordination of Women in the Roman Catholic Church (http://www.womenpriests.org/default.asp)

Timothy
The first paragraph is illogical.

Basically it comes down to, "We accept the authority of the Pope, but we don't accept his teaching on female priests."

Either you accept the Pope's Authority or you don't.

[SirTimothy]

Well, not really. He hasn't made an Ex Cathedra statement, nor is it... dogma. So hence, they are allowed to not accept it.

Timothy

[PaladinValer]

MartianTJ is correct. There has never been any sort of declaration on women's ordination. ++John Paul II said that the discussion was "closed," not "decided." It could be reopened under ++Benedict XVI, although I find that to be very, very doubtful.

[Fish and Bread]

How come Archbishop Rowan gets three crosses and Pope Benedict XVI only gets two? I mean, I know we Anglicans are more true to the faith and all, but I think the Pope should get the same number of crosses as the ABC, you know, in the interests of ecumenism. ;-)

John

[gtsecc]

Well, he is Bishop of Rome, so that is 2, right?

[Aymn27]

Well, not really. He hasn't made an Ex Cathedra statement, nor is it... dogma. So hence, they are allowed to not accept it.

Timothy
Not ALL dogmas/doctrines are made ex-cathedra. It is a closed subject because it is against Tradition, yes, with a capital "T"....it will never happen neither in Rome nor the Orthodox Traditions.

[Fish and Bread]

Well, he is Bishop of Rome, so that is 2, right?

Well, in the Anglican Communion, a bishop gets one, a primate gets two, and the ABC gets three as the worldwide head of his communion. If we're going to translate that system to the Roman Catholic church, I would imagine that the Pope's position would be the one most eqivalent to the ABC and thus he would get three crosses.

John

[PaladinValer]

No, it is a closed subject because ++John Paul II declared it so. Like it or not, the subject was on the table before. And whether any pope likes it or not, it will always be on the table until something is officially declared (ie: act of a council or papal ex cathedra decree).

I am quite happy with my women priests.

[Fish and Bread]

No, it is a closed subject because ++John Paul II declared it so. Like it or not, the subject was on the table before. And whether any pope likes it or not, it will always be on the table until something is officially declared (ie: act of a council or papal ex cathedra decree).

The number of crossed assigned to the Pope was declared a closed subject by John-Paul II? Oh, we're talking about women priests, sorry, my mistake. ;-)

Personally, I've never seen an argument against women priests that I've understood. Maybe it points to a lack of intelligence on my part, but it seems to me that gender really has no impact on one's ability to say the mass especially if, as Galatians tells us, "in Christ there is no male or female". I love tradition, but when we use tradition to discriminate, it may be time to let the tradition go in the name of our God who is love.

John

[PaladinValer]

Basically, the only logical explaination I've ever heard against women's ordination is that it was against the culture of the time.

As it isn't that time anymore and that I do not recognize cultural norms as per Holy Tradition (which is eternal), I find that argument valid for the time (or the current condition) but not for today.

[TomUK]

I am against women Priests, though i must admit i'm being continually bomarded with ideas contrary to that. Maybe it's the Holy Spirit, maybe it's women with hastily made paper aeroplanes. Whatever, i'm open but cautious. I do not believe either scripture, tradition or reason, makes women Priests 'valid'. If Pope BXVI declared otherwise i would have to search my conscience but currently i must stick to the traditional church teaching.l

[gtsecc]

We have had male priests since the Church began.
I am sure we have had practicing gay male priests since the church began.
So, were it allowed on this forum, you could argue one or the other side of that issue.

However, I am sure we have not had female Priests.
The Orthodox have not had them and the Roman Catholics have not had them.
If we have another eccumenical council and sit down with the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics, the 3 branches can give it a go. Otherwise, we have nothing to stand on.

[PaladinValer]

Historically, there have been women deacons, priests, and bishops, gtsecc. Father Rick and I gave some rather potent evidence some months ago.

Whether you agree with it as proof or not that women should be clergy is of course up to everyone.

[gtsecc]

Historically, there have been women deacons, priests, and bishops, gtsecc. Father Rick and I gave some rather potent evidence some months ago.

Whether you agree with it as proof or not that women should be clergy is of course up to everyone.

I have to check into it some more.

[A&O]

Hello all :wave:,

Since we as Catholics believe a priest stands in persona christi (In the person of Christ), it is impossible according to our belief for a female to confect the Sacraments or receive Ordination into the Priesthood. God the Son chose a male body.

Similarly, we believe a priest (like Christ) is wed to the Church. The Church is seen as feminine (Mother Church).

Blessings,
A&O :)

[pmcleanj]

http://www1.christianforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31230&stc=1 This is my official "moderator hat"

Hello all :wave:
Hello, A&O. :wave: Welcome to Christian Forums, and to the Anglican messageboard at Christian Forums.

These boards can be a little confusing while you are getting used to them. Many new posters don't realize that, while the main rules for Christian Forums are at Rules (http://www.christianforums.com/rules) (at the bottom of the page), there are also rules for the individual forums like this one. Our rules are at the top of this page as Scripture,Tradition,Reason - Anglican - Forum Rules (http://www.christianforums.com/t713425-scripturetraditionreason-anglican-forum-rules.html)

One thing that may surprise you, as you read those rules, is that Anglicans are part of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. That's what the word "Catholic" means on this board. So when you tell us what "we as Catholics" believe, it is a little confusing to be restricting that to what you, as a Roman Catholic, believe.

There's a Roman Catholic forum here at Christian Forums, too. It's called
One Bread, One Body - Catholic (http://www.christianforums.com/f26-one-bread-one-body-catholic.html), and that's where people go when they want to find out what Roman Catholic dogma is. This is where people go to find out what Anglicans believe. Actually, most of the regular posters here at STR have visited OBOB often enough, or visited Roman Catholic churches often enough, that we know what they believe on this subject. And many of us have rejected their reasoning -- even many of us who don't believe in ordaining women.

Now that you understand that, I am trusting you not to make a practice of promoting Roman Catholic dogma here. You are very welcome here, to ask questions or to fellowship.

Blessings to you, too, my dear;

Pamela

[PaladinValer]

**Sends the Queen Mum many new hats because she looks ravishing in the original** ;)

[julian the apostate]

tomuk<<I am against women Priests, though i must admit i'm being continually bomarded with ideas contrary to that. Maybe it's the Holy Spirit, maybe it's women with hastily made paper aeroplanes

reasonable, bless you

[SirTimothy]

Since we as Catholics believe a priest stands in persona christi (In the person of Christ), it is impossible according to our belief for a female to confect the Sacraments or receive Ordination into the Priesthood. God the Son chose a male body.

Similarly, we believe a priest (like Christ) is wed to the Church. The Church is seen as feminine (Mother Church).

I would advise you to read this website. It gives some rather potent arguments contrary to that. :)

Timothy (Who's only qualm with his diocese is no women priests)

[Colabomb]

Basically, the only logical explaination I've ever heard against women's ordination is that it was against the culture of the time.

As it isn't that time anymore and that I do not recognize cultural norms as per Holy Tradition (which is eternal), I find that argument valid for the time (or the current condition) but not for today.
How 'bout the fact that we see it as Scripturally and Traditionally unsound. You may disagree with us, but to say we do not have a valid arguement is simply wrong.

[SirTimothy]

Well, Colabomb, I hate to say it, but he has a point. Father Rick and he have both proven--both Scripturally and Traditionally, that being anti-women in the priesthood is a hard position to take. And this website also proves this point.

Timothy

[Colabomb]

Well, Colabomb, I hate to say it, but he has a point. Father Rick and he have both proven--both Scripturally and Traditionally, that being anti-women in the priesthood is a hard position to take. And this website also proves this point.

Timothy
How about the fact that paul in Scripture says that a woman should not have authority over a man in the church. I care what the Scriptures, and the Tradtion of the Holy Catholic Church says, not what some guys did in england.

[SirTimothy]

Let me advise you to read this website--these are Catholic theologians arguing the case--and that's one of thats one of the passages that they talk about.

Timothy

[PaladinValer]

How about the fact that paul in Scripture says that a woman should not have authority over a man in the church.

Based on what? What contexts did you look at?

Realize that St. Paul's letters are not the catholic epistles; they are specific to certain locations and situations. The letters of St. Peter, St. James, etc, have no specific audiance, which is why they are sometimes called "catholic" or "general" letters; they are for all.

This isn't to say that we today and in our situations and locations cannot benedit from what St. Paul wrote of; it simply means we must have this context in our minds when we read them. Ignoring this fact makes it difficult to get what is being said out of the contenses.

I care what the Scriptures, and the Tradtion of the Holy Catholic Church says, not what some guys did in england.

As so do I. However, when reading Scripture, I do as St. Augustine of Hippo suggests: take into effect history, science, economics, anthropology, theology, philosophy, civics, linguistics, etc, as well as the Holy Spirit when I read.

[A&O]

http://www1.christianforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31230&stc=1 This is my official "moderator hat"


Hello, A&O. :wave: Welcome to Christian Forums, and to the Anglican messageboard at Christian Forums.

These boards can be a little confusing while you are getting used to them. Many new posters don't realize that, while the main rules for Christian Forums are at Rules (http://www.christianforums.com/rules) (at the bottom of the page), there are also rules for the individual forums like this one. Our rules are at the top of this page as Scripture,Tradition,Reason - Anglican - Forum Rules (http://www.christianforums.com/t713425-scripturetraditionreason-anglican-forum-rules.html)

One thing that may surprise you, as you read those rules, is that Anglicans are part of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. That's what the word "Catholic" means on this board. So when you tell us what "we as Catholics" believe, it is a little confusing to be restricting that to what you, as a Roman Catholic, believe.

There's a Roman Catholic forum here at Christian Forums, too. It's called
One Bread, One Body - Catholic (http://www.christianforums.com/f26-one-bread-one-body-catholic.html), and that's where people go when they want to find out what Roman Catholic dogma is. This is where people go to find out what Anglicans believe. Actually, most of the regular posters here at STR have visited OBOB often enough, or visited Roman Catholic churches often enough, that we know what they believe on this subject. And many of us have rejected their reasoning -- even many of us who don't believe in ordaining women.

Now that you understand that, I am trusting you not to make a practice of promoting Roman Catholic dogma here. You are very welcome here, to ask questions or to fellowship.

Blessings to you, too, my dear;

Pamela


Thank you very much for your kind welcome and gentle explanation. I'm sorry if I had neglected to read those rules, this site is very large! :)

I'll remember to use 'Roman' Catholic the next time I post here. I hope I didn't come off as promoting dogma. :sorry:

God Bless you all,
A&O

[Slammer]

Maybe it points to a lack of intelligence on my part


Maybe.. what's your IQ?