Does the Anglican Church ??

[Antman_05]

Does the Anglican Church in general hold to T.U.L.I.P. ?
As i know that it holds to the Westmintser confession of Faith.

P.s. sorry if my spelling is off

[SirTimothy]

Ummm.... some anglicans will hold and some won't. A typically Anglican answer is 'it differs'. From congregation to congregation, from diocese to diocese. It's not officially held, but some may choose to do so.

Timothy

[gtsecc]

Anglo-Catholics don't.
But, some other Anglicans will.

[julian the apostate]

<<<<As i know that it holds to the Westmintser confession of Faith.

the anglican church does not hold to the wcf

oh my,, i went to bed an anglican and woke up a presbyterian (or maybe it was, i woke up with a presbyterian, no that couldnt be, my wife is agnostic, on her good days anyway)

[Bonifatius]

Does the Anglican Church in general hold to T.U.L.I.P. ?
As i know that it holds to the Westmintser confession of Faith.


Hi,

I haven't got a clue what TULIP means...
But the Westminster Confession is certainly absolutely incompatible with the Anglican faith and pracitce.

Boni

[gitlance]

Well, I have never met an Anglican who holds to Tulip. I have met some who may hold to one or two of its clauses, but certainly not all 5.

We also do not hold to the Westminster Confession. Our only "statements of faith" are the historic creeds.

Total depravity - Most Anglicans would probably say (being that we are overall synergistic) that humans are not totally depraved. According to Genesis, God saw all that He had made, and He called it good.

Unconditional grace - Once again, because Anglicans (due to their Catholic nature) tend to be Arminians, we do not believe that God's grace is unconditional. He will not force it on us. We must cooperate with Him to accept His grace.

Limited Atonement - His atonement is available to all that "confess the Lord Jesus and believe in their hearts."

Irresistable grace - Again, God does not force His grace upon us. We must choose to accept it, and then we must live it out through faith and works.

Perseverance of the saints - Just as above. If we willingly turn our hearts away from God, He will let us go.

Hope that helps!

[julian the apostate]

ji packer is an anglican, he is probably the best known reformed theologian in the world


and side note to gtlance, i would probably say the grace is unconditional.
that we are able and do resist it doesnt imply a condition , and that we resist does not imply that it is withdrawn, synergism is fine but the main operating party in the synergy is Christ

promise not a contract

anything that we think separates us from God has been removed by Christ,
anything

the christian life is not a detailed program for getting right with God, with the cross as just another symbol and idea mixed in with other symbols and ideas to point us in the direction - synergy like that i probably wouldnt agree with

[TomUK]

When did this term tulip come about. I must say i'm not suprised when it uses terms like irresistable grace!

[TomUK]

that meant to say (and i'm using wap so can't go back and edit it) that i'm not suprised I've never heard of it when it uses terms like irresistable grace!

[gtsecc]

Put it this way - My Priest says, "I know there is a hell because John Calvin must be in it."
- Of course he is kidding.

[julian the apostate]

oh my

[gitlance]

ji packer is an anglican, he is probably the best known reformed theologian in the world


and side note to gtlance, i would probably say the grace is unconditional.
that we are able and do resist it doesnt imply a condition , and that we resist does not imply that it is withdrawn, synergism is fine but the main operating party in the synergy is Christ

promise not a contract


I would be inclined to agree with you along those lines concerning unconditional grace. However, Calvin apparently said that there were NO works whatsoever that we could do to accept God's grace or to make it manifest in our lives. We catholics, as well as evangelicals and Pentecostals, would generally say that while God's grace cannot be won through our own righteousness, we must still accept the gift of His grace -- He won't just force it upon us.

[julian the apostate]

i am not saying that calvin is right or wrong

however as an individual who may or may not misunderstand him

he gives me an extreme headache

[PaladinValer]

Firstly, you are mistaken about the Anglican Church and the Westwinster Confession of Faith. We do not agree with it officially at all. I've never met an Anglican who, knowing about it, even agrees with it on an individual level.

Secondly, historically, we reject Calvinism. In fact, it nearly destroyed the Anglican Church. Most Anglicans are arminian in their soteriology and a good chunk (mainly Anglo-Catholics) are theosic.

The 39 Articles, while no longer of really official worth, don't even state a Calvinist picture. If you read the Articles carefully, it never states that some are condemned; only "singular predestination" is taught, which is believed in by Anglicans and Vatican Catholics (though we both tone it down to the fact that the term is used primarily by Calvinists).

[UberLutheran]

I won't make any bones about it: John Calvin is NOT easy reading; nor for the Arminian-minded, is it a particularly pleasant read.

I DO believe Calvin's works are something that every Christian should be acquainted with, and have a working knowledge of.

It's very difficult to understand an entire branch of the Reformation, as well as the theology of the conservative Baptists and Presbyterians (especially the Presbyterian Church in America) without understanding Calvin; and it's equally difficult to understand the development of Methodism without understanding Calvin.

[AveMaria]

Okay... offhand, I don't think I've read any J.I. Packer. (Did I get his name right?)

Has anyone else? I must admit, my brain is finding it hard to wrap itself around the concept of 'Reformed Anglican Theologian', but that could be my allergy meds.

[gtsecc]

Tolkien is a difficult read also.
I am sure he has influenced my faith more than Calvin.
I dunno if I want to read his stuff.

[TomUK]

Got a book of his on my shelf but have never got round to reading it. Perhaps i might sell it on ebay....

[RobNJ]

When I've got time, I'll explain Calvin.... Not for nothing, but I did used to exaimine & approve catechumens in the Reformed Church

[UberLutheran]

Okay... offhand, I don't think I've read any J.I. Packer. (Did I get his name right?)

Has anyone else? I must admit, my brain is finding it hard to wrap itself around the concept of 'Reformed Anglican Theologian', but that could be my allergy meds.

I found I, too was grasping with the concept of "Reformed Anglican Theologian" and then I tested my blood glucose: 56.

Time for a cookie... ;)

[julian the apostate]

john stott is reformed, or close to it as well, charles swindoll thinks he is the greatest preacher of our time, or something close to it

david martin lloyd was anglican , until he got his panties in a bunch and left, and strained his friendship with packer because he wouldnt leave

[Simon_Templar]

Tolkien is a difficult read also.
I am sure he has influenced my faith more than Calvin.
I dunno if I want to read his stuff.

Woot!

I agree with everything except tolkien being a difficult read.... welll ok so the silmarillion is a little hard to get into for the first few chapters. (but its sooo worth it)

Oh, and I have read calvin. For a while I leaned strongly calvinist.. about a 4.5 pointer I guess... but I eventually rejected the idea that God is bound by his sovereign perogative, not to exercise his sovereign perogative as he sees fit. Which is what a good deal of calvinism comes down to.

[Colabomb]

Put it this way - My Priest says, "I know there is a hell because John Calvin must be in it."
- Of course he is kidding.
Irresistible grace is True. Grace is Irresistable the way that a Chocolate Cupcake is Irresistable.

I may technically be able to refuse.. but why would I want to?

(For those who don't get the joke, no, I am not a calvinist.)

[gitlance]

Irresistible grace is True. Grace is Irresistable the way that a Chocolate Cupcake is Irresistable.

I may technically be able to refuse.. but why would I want to?

(For those who don't get the joke, no, I am not a calvinist.)

LOL. I was about to write a doctoral dissertation as to why the cupcake is in fact resistable. Hahahaha! ;)

[Slammer]

P.s. sorry if my spelling is off

It's alright..