If Luther were to reappear present-day

[cenimo]

Would he pick one of the specific Lutheran churches, LCMS, ELCA, etc...or would he say, "What happened?"

(just asking for information and discussion, not agitating)

[SPALATIN]

Would he pick one of the specific Lutheran churches, LCMS, ELCA, etc...or would he say, "What happened?"

(just asking for information and discussion, not agitating)

That would be asking for mere speculation on any of our part. For me I believe he would have some kind of problem with each of them if he looked into what they are truly espousing today. However, I do believe he would be more apt to see things with the more conservative synods than the more liberal ones. It was important to Luther to abide by scripture first and by the confessions second.

Again that is pure speculation on my part and I don't pretend to know that what I have said is exactly or even close to what he would really do or say. I would be surprised to get any other answers though as this is dangerous to do and can cause some hurt feelings.

Pax Christi,
Scott

[PACKY]

That would be asking for mere speculation on any of our part. For me I believe he would have some kind of problem with each of them if he looked into what they are truly espousing today. However, I do believe he would be more apt to see things with the more conservative synods than the more liberal ones. It was important to Luther to abide by scripture first and by the confessions second.

Again that is pure speculation on my part and I don't pretend to know that what I have said is exactly or even close to what he would really do or say. I would be surprised to get any other answers though as this is dangerous to do and can cause some hurt feelings.

Pax Christi,
Scott

Scott,
When are you going to become a Mod.?? Youre insight and thoughfullness as well as teh intelligence andrespect your posts offer make you IMO a great person to MOd. on these forums and in the CF ministry......
(just a suggestion) :wave:

[KagomeShuko]

I can't really say, but I think he would wonder what happened when look at all of the different branches of Lutheranism. There'd always be something. . .

(I was told once that Luther would probably hate all the Lutheran churches of today. . .I don't remember who said this, but I remember it being told to me).

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[revjpw]

Would he pick one of the specific Lutheran churches, LCMS, ELCA, etc...or would he say, "What happened?"

(just asking for information and discussion, not agitating)

After vomitting:sick: , he would most likely run himself through.

[Protoevangel]

I sure would love to read what he would have to say about the Lutheran churches today, you thought he used to get nasty and inflammatory? Hooooo boy!

[RedneckAnglican]

'twould be interesting...same with Wesley and the Methodists and Kramner and the Anglicans (Episcopalians)...that would be interesting indeed...

[alabaster jar]

I've wondered this many times, too. I recall that in confirmation class my Pastor said Luther did not want a new church, but a reformed Catholic Church. So would he consider Catholicism today? Would he like the new Pope? Or would he like a particular synod of Lutherans over another?

[Qoheleth]

Would he pick one of the specific Lutheran churches, LCMS, ELCA, etc...or would he say, "What happened?"


He would face north and make a right hand turn and never look back.

Q

[SPALATIN]

Scott,
When are you going to become a Mod.?? Youre insight and thoughfullness as well as teh intelligence andrespect your posts offer make you IMO a great person to MOd. on these forums and in the CF ministry......
(just a suggestion) :wave:

Thanks for the compliment, but I am having too much fun just posting here to be a MOD as well. :D

[Tertiumquid]

Would he pick one of the specific Lutheran churches, LCMS, ELCA, etc...or would he say, "What happened?"

(just asking for information and discussion, not agitating)

Interestingly, Luther can reappear today!

Luther was fundamentally committed to the Gospel. Luther said in a sermon once,

"...While men are thankful for human teachings, they can not satisfy, but leave a barren land and deadly hunger. No heart can ever be satisfied unless it hears Christ rightly proclaimed in the Gospel."

You can be Luther in whatever church you are in. Simply cling to the gospel at all costs. Whatever opposes that Gospel, Luther would be against. So should you. Thus, evaluate whatever church you're in (Lutheran, etc). Ask these questions:

Does this church teach law or Gospel?

Does this church embrace a theology of glory, or a theology of the cross?

Blessings,
James Swan

[revjpw]

'twould be interesting...same with Wesley and the Methodists and Kramner and the Anglicans (Episcopalians)...that would be interesting indeed...

He'd have a field day with Spong!! ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

[revjpw]

Thanks for the compliment, but I am having too much fun just posting here to be a MOD as well. :D

You're too nice of a guy for that, anyway. ;) ;)

[Sharilyn]

I think he'd say, "Well, back to the old drawing board!" :D

just jokin' ...

[ChiRho]

He already came back for a week...along with St. Augustine and C.S. Lewis. Fortunately, we have the interview available here:

http://www.oldsolar.com/article.php?id=7&mytopic=culture&mytitle=Posthumous%20Tabletalk&myauthor=by%20Rick%20Ritchie&fname=Articles/culture/8Posthumous.txt

[SemStudent08]

I'm thinking it would be something along the lines of "Screw you all, I'm taking my grace and going home!" :-P

[JADVirginia]

If you want a fun book to explore the question, read, My Conversations with Martin Luther (... in which I learn about God, faith, marriage, sexuality, family, education, war, spirituality, church life, the future, ecumenism, politics, heaven, and other things, too.), by Timothy F. Lull, 1999. Lull is (was?) the President of Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary.

[ChiRho]

He would face north and make a right hand turn and never look back.

Q


Missed this the first time. Headin' East are we? Luther would not do this.

[night2day]

Would he pick one of the specific Lutheran churches, LCMS, ELCA, etc...or would he say, "What happened?"

Or maybe: "Why are you all still naming yourselves after me? I told you I never wanted that!" (He never wanted to stem away from the Catholic church....just point out and have something done with the hersies and abuses going on.)

Seriously (and hypothetically since this is a hypothetical question), he'd probably be upset but not suprised. In his day, people were already taking whatever he taught or spoke for their own use. Problem was, while Luther relied on the scriptures, the others chose their own version of them. Such as in the Peasents' War in which he did not support, start, nor even wish to see take place.

In answer to your question, it rests on which denomination(s) offically and publically rests on the scriptures as the inerrant, infallible, and divinely inspired word of God and...which is exactly what Luther believed and taught going by his many writings the Lutheran churches claim as their confessions. Doesn't mean the denomination(s) don't have their own internal problems of course. But, where they stand theologically as a whole, foundation and all, is basically the chief question.

And the ones which do not wish nor desire to profess the pure unadultered Law and Gospel as written within the scriptures as they are then they have no foundation at all.

*Incidently the term denomination(s) was used only due to the issue the major Lutheran denominations (ELCA, LCMS, and WELS) here in the US do happen to have alter and pulit fellowship with other Lutheran synods globally.

[Qoheleth]

Missed this the first time. Headin' East are we? Luther would not do this.

Why not? Have you read "Union with Christ" or "Christus Victor" ?

Q

[ChiRho]

Why not? Have you read "Union with Christ" or Christus Victor" ?

Q


Not yet. I will now. Quick question, why have you not gone East then?

[MORTANIUS]

I believe Luther would wish to remind people of some of the things he said before he reposed.

Firstly, he was humble enough to tell others not to call the reformed Church "Lutheran" because it was the Holy Spirit that guided him and others back to a sense of orthodoxy, and not himself. He was only an instrument.

He would wonder why certain customs were forgotten, such as making the sign of the cross which he continued to do in his prayers.

I suppose, little things would make him question certain things.

[SPALATIN]

I believe Luther would wish to remind people of some of the things he said before he reposed.

Firstly, he was humble enough to tell others not to call the reformed Church "Lutheran" because it was the Holy Spirit that guided him and others back to a sense of orthodoxy, and not himself. He was only an instrument.

He would wonder why certain customs were forgotten, such as making the sign of the cross which he continued to do in his prayers.

I suppose, little things would make him question certain things.

In the past year I have begun to cross myself when taking communion. I am still a bit self-conscious about it and so I don't do it whenever I pray with others, but by myself I will.

I don't know that he would wonder that if he came back. But I do think that he would be upset to see that those who use his name don't always follow his teaching.

[MORTANIUS]

In the past year I have begun to cross myself when taking communion. I am still a bit self-conscious about it and so I don't do it whenever I pray with others, but by myself I will.

I don't know that he would wonder that if he came back. But I do think that he would be upset to see that those who use his name don't always follow his teaching.

I think its best to follow Luther's example. When we wake up, do something, or about to eat, all of which is done with Prayer.

I don't think there is an absolute rule to how to use the sign of the cross except of course when we pray.

[Qoheleth]

I don't think there is an absolute rule to how to use the sign of the cross except of course when we pray.

Excellent. You are learning to accept tradition as part of the "fullness" of the faith

Q

[MORTANIUS]

Excellent. You are learning to accept tradition as part of the "fullness" of the faith

Q

:confused:

Actually you misunderstand that Lutherans didn't "throw out the baby with the bath water" as Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians say.

Obviously there is a sense of tradition in all things. It is when those traditions go contrary to what can be derived from the Holy Bible.

Luther didn't just decide to do it because it was a fanciful thing. It reinforces the idea of a Trinity (just name one thing among so many others)

[revjpw]

Tradition is a fine thing, as long as it jives with Scripture.

[MORTANIUS]

Tradition is a fine thing, as long as it jives with Scripture.

EXACTLY!!!! :bow:

[Qoheleth]

Actually you misunderstand that Lutherans didn't "throw out the baby with the bath water" as Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians say.

What makes you think I misunderstand Luther or Lutheranism.

My point is, How many Lutherans do you know Cross themselves, Genuflect at Mass, Bow at the name of Jesus and the Invocation of the Trinity and so on. I do.

All of these things are unwritten tradition, that add to the fullness of our faith.

Q

[Qoheleth]

Tradition is a fine thing, as long as it jives with Scripture.

Actually, Lutherans would say this about tradition:

(a) To say that written Tradition is preeminent or greater than oral Tradition is to split Tradition into two . (b) One must distinguish Tradition from tradition. The former refers to the life and working of the Holy Spirit in the church, including the right interpretation of the Scriptures. The latter refers to customs or habits that have grown up over time and so may be discarded; or to pastoral applications of Tradition which may need to be changed as circumstances change.

Chemnitz’s eight definitions of tradition are very helpful in making this distinction.

Q