Salvation

[Jerrysch]

According to the Bible Upon what is a person's salvation based?

[rural_preacher]

The basis of our salvation is Grace. Ephesians chapter 2 says that it is by grace, through faith, not by works. (It also says that we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.)

I would vote if you had "Grace" as one of the choices.


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[Iollain]

Yeah, you can't just accept Jesus as Saviour and keep right on truckin with the world. But there is nothing we can do to earn salvation, only Jesus could obtain that for us.

[ZiSunka]

Amen to that!

John 10:1-18 1 "I assure you, anyone who sneaks over the wall of a sheepfold, rather than going through the gate, must surely be a thief and a robber! 2 For a shepherd enters through the gate. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep hear his voice and come to him. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 After he has gathered his own flock, he walks ahead of them, and they follow him because they recognize his voice. 5 They won't follow a stranger; they will run from him because they don't recognize his voice." 6 Those who heard Jesus use this illustration didn't understand what he meant, 7 so he explained it to them. "I assure you, I am the gate for the sheep," he said. 8 "All others who came before me were thieves and robbers. But the true sheep did not listen to them. 9 Yes, I am the gate. Those who come in through me will be saved. Wherever they go, they will find green pastures. 10 The thief's purpose is to steal and kill and destroy. My purpose is to give life in all its fullness. 11 "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 A hired hand will run when he sees a wolf coming. He will leave the sheep because they aren't his and he isn't their shepherd. And so the wolf attacks them and scatters the flock. 13 The hired hand runs away because he is merely hired and has no real concern for the sheep. 14 "I am the good shepherd; I know my own sheep, and they know me, 15 just as my Father knows me and I know the Father. And I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, too, that are not in this sheepfold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice; and there will be one flock with one shepherd. 17 "The Father loves me because I lay down my life that I may have it back again. 18 No one can take my life from me. I lay down my life voluntarily. For I have the right to lay it down when I want to and also the power to take it again. For my Father has given me this command."

It's not enough to say you believe in Jesus, you have to back that up with actually living for him and following him. Any faith that says it believes in him but just adds him to their worldly life and doesn't undergo a continuing change toward Christ-likeness is not a saving faith.

[Terri]

The basis of our salvation is Grace. Ephesians chapter 2 says that it is by grace, through faith, not by works. (It also says that we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.)

I would vote if you had "Grace" as one of the choices.


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Well now Dear Brother you gain access to grace through faith. (check out RO 5:1 below) So please feel free to vote. ;)

RO 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.

RO 4:16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring--not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham.

[rural_preacher]

Well now Dear Brother you gain access to grace through faith.

I wholeheartedly agree. That was exactly my point. It is through faith that we gain that access; however, the basis for salvation is grace and that is the wording of the poll question..."upon what is a person's salvation based?"

Therefore, without "grace" as one of the choices I cannot vote. If the question were "Through what do we gain access to God's gracious salvation?" I would vote for "faith and nothing else".


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[lnknprk2003]

Faith and nothing else

[daveleau]

Grace through faith. We believe and God reigns down grace. There is no other way to receive Grace than through Faith.

My pastor today told a story that illustrates:

A pastor was met at the Gates of Heaven by an angel. The angel told him that it takes 100 points to get into Heaven. The pastor though "Sweet, I'm in!". The pastor said "I was the pastor of the same church with 1000 in the congregation for 28 years." The angel said "That's GREAT. One point."
The preacher thought "Wow, this is going to be tougher than I thought." He then says "I was married to the same woman for 49 years."
The angel said "That's GREAT. One point."
The preacher then said "I taught Sunday school for 22 years."
The angel said "That's GREAT. One point."
The preacher then said "Good grief. The only way I am going to get in at this rate is by the grace of God!"
The angel said "Grace of God, 97 points. Please come this way."

Works are meaningless in the eyes of God when it comes to Salvation. Once we are Saved, then our life of works begins. BUT, these works have no bearing on Salvation. They affect our rewards in Heaven. Rev 22:12 tells us this. James tells us that faith without works is dead. But, it mentions nothing regarding the bearing on our salvation. We simply can not work or affect change without works. Paul tells us not by works, but by faith. Works do nothing for us, regarding Salvation. It is not a process. It is instantaneous once we make our own choice to follow God and believe Jesus is the Messiah.

[Terri]

Great post Daveleau!! I'd have to say... :amen:

One way I like to think of it myself is that if one was standing at the gates of heaven and was asked why they should be allowed in, the only correct answer is because of Jesus sacrifice. Any other answer will just not do! :)

I've even had one person tell me that they would just say "have mercy on me God." But the answer to that is that God has already had mercy on you through his Son and all you have to do is BELIEVE!! :clap:

[ZiSunka]

A pastor was met at the Gates of Heaven by an angel. The angel told him that it takes 100 points to get into Heaven. The pastor though "Sweet, I'm in!". The pastor said "I was the pastor of the same church with 1000 in the congregation for 28 years." The angel said "That's GREAT. One point."
The preacher thought "Wow, this is going to be tougher than I thought." He then says "I was married to the same woman for 49 years."
The angel said "That's GREAT. One point."
The preacher then said "I taught Sunday school for 22 years."
The angel said "That's GREAT. One point."
The preacher then said "Good grief. The only way I am going to get in at this rate is by the grace of God!"
The angel said "Grace of God, 97 points. Please come this way."


I'd only change it a little.

A pastor was met at the Gates of Heaven by an angel. The angel told him that it takes 100 points to get into Heaven. The pastor though "Sweet, I'm in!". The pastor said "I was the pastor of the same church with 1000 in the congregation for 28 years." The angel said "That's GREAT. One millionth of a point."

The preacher thought "Wow, this is going to be tougher than I thought." He then says "I was married to the same woman for 49 years."
The angel said "That's GREAT. One millionth of a point."

The preacher then said "I taught Sunday school for 22 years."
The angel said "That's GREAT. One millionth of a point."

The preacher then said "Good grief. The only way I am going to get in at this rate is by the grace of God!"

The angel said "Grace of God, 99.999999999997 points. Please come this way."


Our good works aren't even worth a whole point! :D

[Terri]

I wholeheartedly agree. That was exactly my point. It is through faith that we gain that access; however, the basis for salvation is grace and that is the wording of the poll question..."upon what is a person's salvation based?"

Therefore, without "grace" as one of the choices I cannot vote. If the question were "Through what do we gain access to God's gracious salvation?" I would vote for "faith and nothing else".


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I'm just not getting your point RP!

If faith is what we access grace through, wouldn't faith be the base? I mean, the faith does come first. Of course the faith is a gift. But, it still seems that it comes before the grace since we have to have the faith to access the grace. Wouldn't what comes first be the base? :scratch:

[aReformedPatriot]

By grace through faith.

[Sweet Pea]

Grace through Faith

[seebs]

Grace. Given that we don't all necessarily even agree on what "faith" is...

[St.Augustine]

According to the Bible Upon what is a person's salvation based?

Faith and works. "Faith alone saves, but faith alone is not faith." - Martin Luther

[rural_preacher]

I'm just not getting your point RP!

If faith is what we access grace through, wouldn't faith be the base? I mean, the faith does come first. Of course the faith is a gift. But, it still seems that it comes before the grace since we have to have the faith to access the grace. Wouldn't what comes first be the base? :scratch:



Webster's Dictionary - basis: the base, foundation, or chief supporting factor of anything.

We love Him because He first loved us.

God's Grace came long before your faith. You place your faith in the Grace of God. What is God's Grace? The Grace of God is Jesus Christ..."By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ" (I Corinthians 3:10,11). "I always thank God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus" (I Corinthians 1:4).

Some other relevant passages:

John 1:17; Romans 3:24; 5:15-21




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[JM]

According to the Bible Upon what is a person's salvation based?

Grace.

[eldermike]

Given that faith is given as a gift from God, Grace through Faith, is only Grace and more Grace.

[TwinCrier]

Faith and works. "Faith alone saves, but faith alone is not faith." - Martin LutherThe quote you posted clearly disagrees with you, faith alone saves. As for faith alone not being faith, I presumme that means by our fruits, aka works, we show our faith, but what "works" are enough? Certainly a person who is paralyzed can have faith even if they can't do much for others. Works is quite a broad term and unfortunately some people define "works" as "giving money to a church." True faith doesn't always manifest they way some may expect it too.

[St.Augustine]

The quote you posted clearly disagrees with you, faith alone saves. As for faith alone not being faith, I presumme that means by our fruits, aka works, we show our faith, but what "works" are enough? Certainly a person who is paralyzed can have faith even if they can't do much for others. Works is quite a broad term and unfortunately some people define "works" as "giving money to a church." True faith doesn't always manifest they way some may expect it too.

Yours in a common misunderstanding. Faith contains works so works are a part of faith so yes faith alone saves but faith without works is not faith. The contrast is between works of the Law which cannot save and works of the gospel which do. :)

[Gwenyfur]

Grace through faith. We believe and God reigns down grace. There is no other way to receive Grace than through Faith.

My pastor today told a story that illustrates:

A pastor was met at the Gates of Heaven by an angel. The angel told him that it takes 100 points to get into Heaven. The pastor though "Sweet, I'm in!". The pastor said "I was the pastor of the same church with 1000 in the congregation for 28 years." The angel said "That's GREAT. One point."
The preacher thought "Wow, this is going to be tougher than I thought." He then says "I was married to the same woman for 49 years."
The angel said "That's GREAT. One point."
The preacher then said "I taught Sunday school for 22 years."
The angel said "That's GREAT. One point."
The preacher then said "Good grief. The only way I am going to get in at this rate is by the grace of God!"
The angel said "Grace of God, 97 points. Please come this way."

Works are meaningless in the eyes of God when it comes to Salvation. Once we are Saved, then our life of works begins. BUT, these works have no bearing on Salvation. They affect our rewards in Heaven. Rev 22:12 tells us this. James tells us that faith without works is dead. But, it mentions nothing regarding the bearing on our salvation. We simply can not work or affect change without works. Paul tells us not by works, but by faith. Works do nothing for us, regarding Salvation. It is not a process. It is instantaneous once we make our own choice to follow God and believe Jesus is the Messiah.
excellent! :)

[newbeliever02072005]

daveleau Grace through faith. We believe and God reigns down grace. There is no other way to receive Grace than through Faith.

My pastor today told a story that illustrates:

A pastor was met at the Gates of Heaven by an angel. The angel told him that it takes 100 points to get into Heaven. The pastor though "Sweet, I'm in!". The pastor said "I was the pastor of the same church with 1000 in the congregation for 28 years." The angel said "That's GREAT. One point."
The preacher thought "Wow, this is going to be tougher than I thought." He then says "I was married to the same woman for 49 years."
The angel said "That's GREAT. One point."
The preacher then said "I taught Sunday school for 22 years."
The angel said "That's GREAT. One point."
The preacher then said "Good grief. The only way I am going to get in at this rate is by the grace of God!"
The angel said "Grace of God, 97 points. Please come this way."

Works are meaningless in the eyes of God when it comes to Salvation. Once we are Saved, then our life of works begins. BUT, these works have no bearing on Salvation. They affect our rewards in Heaven. Rev 22:12 tells us this. James tells us that faith without works is dead. But, it mentions nothing regarding the bearing on our salvation. We simply can not work or affect change without works. Paul tells us not by works, but by faith. Works do nothing for us, regarding Salvation. It is not a process. It is instantaneous once we make our own choice to follow God and believe Jesus is the Messiah.[/QUOTE]


excellent!


I'll stand in this corner :clap: !

[GreenEyedLady]

Grace, grace Goooooooood Grace, grace that is pardoned and clensed within...............................Grace grace, GOooooooooooooods grace..................

[Jerrysch]

Grace, grace Goooooooood Grace, grace that is pardoned and clensed within...............................Grace grace, GOooooooooooooods grace..................

I looked at your web site, so sad...Didn't know of this problem! My Boys are old now!

[stlsweeti]

Grace through faith. We believe and God reigns down grace. There is no other way to receive Grace than through Faith.

My pastor today told a story that illustrates:

A pastor was met at the Gates of Heaven by an angel. The angel told him that it takes 100 points to get into Heaven. The pastor though "Sweet, I'm in!". The pastor said "I was the pastor of the same church with 1000 in the congregation for 28 years." The angel said "That's GREAT. One point."
The preacher thought "Wow, this is going to be tougher than I thought." He then says "I was married to the same woman for 49 years."
The angel said "That's GREAT. One point."
The preacher then said "I taught Sunday school for 22 years."
The angel said "That's GREAT. One point."
The preacher then said "Good grief. The only way I am going to get in at this rate is by the grace of God!"
The angel said "Grace of God, 97 points. Please come this way."

Works are meaningless in the eyes of God when it comes to Salvation. Once we are Saved, then our life of works begins. BUT, these works have no bearing on Salvation. They affect our rewards in Heaven. Rev 22:12 tells us this. James tells us that faith without works is dead. But, it mentions nothing regarding the bearing on our salvation. We simply can not work or affect change without works. Paul tells us not by works, but by faith. Works do nothing for us, regarding Salvation. It is not a process. It is instantaneous once we make our own choice to follow God and believe Jesus is the Messiah.

I really enjoyed this post Dave.....thanks for sharing it with us. :)

[Kristi1]

I voted ~> Faith and nothing else!! ;)

[mesue]

My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus' blood and righteousness;
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly lean on Jesus' name.
On Christ the solid Rock I stand
All other ground is sinking sand:
All other ground is sinking sand.

Edward Mote

[Xaviere]

The basis of our salvation is Grace. Ephesians chapter 2 says that it is by grace, through faith, not by works. (It also says that we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.)

I would vote if you had "Grace" as one of the choices.


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AMEN ... Grace through Faith ... not by works lest anyone shall boast. :amen:

[Gwenyfur]

My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus' blood and righteousness;
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly lean on Jesus' name.
On Christ the solid Rock I stand
All other ground is sinking sand:
All other ground is sinking sand.

Edward Mote
I'm hearing DMHO about now!!! :clap:

[MbiaJc]

The basis of our salvation is Grace. Ephesians chapter 2 says that it is by grace, through faith, not by works. (It also says that we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.)

I would vote if you had "Grace" as one of the choices.


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:thumbsup:

[Jerrysch]

The basis of our salvation is Grace. Ephesians chapter 2 says that it is by grace, through faith, not by works. (It also says that we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.)

I would vote if you had "Grace" as one of the choices.


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Why not start your own poll?

[PaladinGirl]

Faith and works. ;)

[~Lady Trekki~]

Faith alone

[unimportantbuthisnameis]

I vote faith alone, but works are a result of that faith.

[Lockheed]

I vote faith alone, but works are a result of that faith.

And on that we agree.

[unimportantbuthisnameis]

And on that we agree.

Who would have thought it;)

[Jerrysch]

Faith and works. ;)

What works are necessary for salvation?

[GreenEyedLady]

What works are necessary for salvation?

Works are not nessacary for salvation.
Holly is incorrect.

[eldermike]

There are not many things in scripture as clear as this:

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.



God created you in Christ (saved) to do good works. We are saved for good works, not BY good works. And the other very clear issue is the works you were SAVED to do were also created by Christ!

[rural_preacher]

There are not many things in scripture as clear as this:

Ephesian 2:8-10


God created you in Christ (saved) to do good works. We are saved for good works, not BY good works. And the other very clear issue is the works you were SAVED to do were also created by Christ!

AMEN!!:clap:



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[ZiSunka]

According to the Bible Upon what is a person's salvation based?

God's faithfulness and love, and nothing else.

[Huguenot]

Grace through faith which produces works :)

[Jerrysch]

God's faithfulness and love, and nothing else.

Is there a human responce to this or does "God's faithfulness and love" just select the unaware person who just then becomes saved?

[ZiSunka]

Is there a human responce to this or does "God's faithfulness and love" just select the unaware person who just then becomes saved?

(lambslove shakes her head in sorrow and walks away.) I already answered that like 50 times. :(

[Jerrysch]

(lambslove shakes her head in sorrow and walks away.) I already answered that like 50 times. :(

Sorry to have bothered you.

[ZiSunka]

Sorry to have bothered you.

It's okay. Sometimes I get testy when I have to explain the same thing to the same person over and over and then they forget that I ever told them at all.

But, for the sake of Christian love I will say it again, God offers, we accept or reject.

[Quantum_Man]

By faith alone and nothing else.

[Lockheed]

But, for the sake of Christian love I will say it again, God offers, we accept or reject.



Haven't we all, in sinning against God, rejected Him already?

[ZiSunka]

Haven't we all, in sinning against God, rejected Him already?

In a figurative sense, yes, but thankfully, He has created a way for us to undo the alienation between us when he died on the cross for our sins. When we understand and admit we are sinners, when we believe that he died on the cross to take the punishment for all those sins, when we confess that we believe that and determine to make him our Lord, we are reunited with him and enjoy peace with God through Christ because of our faith. Romans 5:1. :)

It is a mutual relationship, as are all true love relationships.

[Lockheed]

In a figurative sense, yes...

A "figurative sense"? Explain what you mean by "figurative" here. What is Paul saying by saying "one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men"? Consider that he follows it up with "through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners" (Rom 5:18,19ff)

What does it mean that "in Adam all die" (1 Co 15:22, Eph 2:1-4)?

but thankfully, He has created a way for us to undo the alienation between us when he died on the cross for our sins.

So you believe that in Adam we were alienated from God?

What do you mean that He created a way for "us to undo the alienation"? How can a person "undo" a lifetime of sin?

Secondly, isn't our "alienation" from God more of a direct and purposeful rebellion, making us His enemies?

When we understand and admit we are sinners, when we believe that he died on the cross to take the punishment for all those sins, when we confess that we believe that and determine to make him our Lord, we are reunited with him and enjoy peace with God through Christ because of our faith. Romans 5:1.

Doesn't the Bible say that it is Christ who has reconciled us to God (and not us)?
Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Col 1:22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach--
How does a person go from being God's enemy to being His child? What brings about this change of mindset?

It is a mutual relationship, as are all true love relationships.

Really? Aren't we called to love our enemies? Is it some how not a 'love relationship'?

Isn't it true that God loved us even while we were rebellious sinners?

[Diane_Windsor]

The basis of our salvation is Grace. Ephesians chapter 2 says that it is by grace, through faith, not by works. (It also says that we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.)

I would vote if you had "Grace" as one of the choices.


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:thumbsup:

Good answer!

Diane
:)

[Jerrysch]

Just noticed that we have one who answered that they did not know but would like to know, has that person come to any conclusion, as yet?