Your view on birth control?

[TwinCrier]

Still looking for Scripture that supports this :) ...

.....
I'm not talking about "children are a heritage from the Lord" type verses. Nor am I talking about the story of Onan. I am looking for a command from the Lord NOT to use birth control.....Right, you want scripture, just not the ones that directly address the issue. Much like how the specific verse that forbids getting tattoos is dismissed by those who want tattoos. As I said before....
Even if there were a verse that said 'Thou shalt not use any method of contraception.' it would certainly be dismissed as being a misinterpratation of the original Greek.
What is wrong with Christians today that they want the curse of barreness over the blessing of children?

[kidsminister]

Okay...this is the third time that I have jumped into this discussion hoping that someone will enlighten me with Scripture that supports the anti birth control position. And this is the third time that I have been met with a sarcastic comment.

So I am done with this discussion for good this time.

I have better ways I can make use of my time.

[Wolfman66]

Im sorry. I thought the wedding cake joke was pretty funny when I first heard it. Maybe I shouldnt joke? Sorry, I just have to laugh sometimes.

[Macano]

Not only do I think that birth control is not a sin, but I would say that in many cases not using it is irresponsible. I see so many families pump out kids in the area I live in, in the name of the dominant religion here, and yet they cannot afford them. Now our schools our bursting at the seams and our property taxes are ridiculously high, in part to pay for all these kids education that these people shouldn't be having. It is irresponsible to have kids you cannot afford, and it places a burden on society in the form of higher social care costs and taxes. I don't want to have to pay for your kid! Not all people with large familes fall in this category, but most I personally know of do, and they see nothing wrong with it. *sigh* I gotta move out of this state.

[KristiLee]

My husband and I do not use any man made form of birth control. The Bible clearly shows that God is quite capable of making a woman barren and also take away her barrenness: Sarai in Gen 11:30 who later bore Isaac in Gen 21:1-7; Rachel in Gen 29:31 who later bore Joseph in Gen 30:22-24; Manoah's wife in Judges 13:2-3 who later bore Samson in Judges 13:24 and; Elizabeth in Luke 1:7, 36 who later bore John the baptist in Luke 1:57.

So we trust that the Lord will provide and withhold according to His plan and His will. I don't think people should look at this foolishly, and with a self-serving motive as, "using God as birth control." We are also financially fit, love, serve, and trust the Lord Jesus with all our hearts, and live daily praying His will be done.

If you don't have that kind of a relationship with God, I agree with the harmless methods: condoms, sponge, even withdrawing, none are 100%, but it is better than 0%.

I don't believe in anything that can mess with your hormones, or keep you from having your cycle or any method that doesn't require you to change it for 5 years is at all acceptable. If it can do all that to your body, it can't be good for a baby.

Just some of my thoughts! :) God bless!

[Ohiomom2]

Not only do I think that birth control is not a sin, but I would say that in many cases not using it is irresponsible. I see so many families pump out kids in the area I live in, in the name of the dominant religion here, and yet they cannot afford them. Now our schools our bursting at the seams and our property taxes are ridiculously high, in part to pay for all these kids education that these people shouldn't be having. It is irresponsible to have kids you cannot afford, and it places a burden on society in the form of higher social care costs and taxes. I don't want to have to pay for your kid! Not all people with large familes fall in this category, but most I personally know of do, and they see nothing wrong with it. *sigh* I gotta move out of this state.

How do you know these families can't afford their blessings? My husband was asked at work how can we even try for a third when the lady who was asking has four and she can barely afford them and they have two incomes. He told her the Lord will provide and she was shocked by his response. We aren't on welfare and never will be, I will continue to stay at home, we have health insurance, our own home, two vehicles one of which is paid off, food, clothing. Our children do not and will not want for anything. Property taxes and full public schools are not the product of big families. These are the product of politicians who won't pay teachers what they should so they cram students in so they can be taught and property taxes go higher to support road work and other buildings cities feel they must erect. We are a homeschooling, quiverfull family and I hope our neighbors aren't so ignorant as to blame their taxes and school crowding on us, if I misunderstood your comment I apologize. On the other hand I don't feel we should have to pay school taxes on schools that we will never use. Why should we support an institution that we don't hold in high esteem?

[Ohiomom2]

I have seen that people are saying there are little to no side effects on barrier methods such as diapharms and condoms when there is. Condoms can create a yeast infection in a women as well some women may be allergice to latex. If a woman develops a YI she has to go on medication then that hinders the husband and wife from having sex because of treatment. Diaphrams left in place for long periods of time can cause unusual cells to develop in the uterus and cervix in effect causing cancer. Little to no side effect, hmmm I wonder?

[kidsminister]

Im sorry. I thought the wedding cake joke was pretty funny when I first heard it. Maybe I shouldnt joke? Sorry, I just have to laugh sometimes.

Hey! I totally wasn't referring to you...I appreciate a good joke as much as the next person ;) .

The sarcastic comments I was talking about were things like, "Well, gee, I'm so glad you've decided to trust yourself instead of God," or "Isn't it nice that you can twist the Scriptures to make them say what you want them to say?"

Things like that (not EXACTLY those comments...but I am too tired and too lazy to go back and quote the exact ones. I just wanted to give you the jist of what I've seen here!).

I am just tired of the futile argument - of being accused of having no values, or even (as one person implied awhile back) being supportive of abortion! Just for the record, I believe that abortion is NOT an option, and I don't even use BC myself. Other than that my husband and I sort of practice NFP, and not very religiously.

So I'm not even talking about myself when I ask where in the Bible is the use of birth control prohibited. I understand that it says children are a blessing. I understand that Onan was struck dead for "spilling his seed," which has been used as a metaphor for BC, masturbation, and even "proof" that anything between a husband and wife other than full-on intercourse is a sin. So...the only thing I have ever asked on this board is for someone to provide a clear, direct command from God in Scripture that says it is wrong for a couple to practice birth control. BC was around back then. And even if it wasn't, God is all-knowing, and knew that it would be an issue for us. So did He say something or not? If He didn't, then why in heaven's name are there 20+ pages of argument about it on a fundamentalist board?

Just wondering.

[TwinCrier]

Okay, the "clear, direct command from God in Scripture" isn't going to be there. At least not if you insist on dismissing the entire bit about Onan. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there isn't a verse that says Thou shalt not use contraception. It isn't there. What is there, repeatedly is that children are a blessing, a gift, barreness a curse, sex is meant for marriage, and our bodies are the temple of God. Why some continue to insist that God wants them to alter the natural function of the body, the main purpose of sex, with pills and devices that can harm the body is beyond my understanding. I guess what's good enough for the world is now acceptable for the followers of Christ.... well, maybe not.

[jmikey]

Christians shouldn't be worrying about birth control unless they are married and do not want to have children yet. If you're not married sexual acts should be abstained from. Otherwise it's called fornication. It also fits under the category of sexual immorality.

[Ohiomom2]

BC was around back then. And even if it wasn't, God is all-knowing, and knew that it would be an issue for us.
Just wondering.

I am curious as to how you know there was BC in the days of Jesus? If there was BC then why did they have such big families and were able to support them on less than what we have today? He didn't think it would have to be issue probably since more than likely BC wasn't around (I am in no way second guessing God) He may have well known that BC would be developed but was praying that His people would use use common sense and not use it.

[kidsminister]

He didn't think it would have to be issue probably since more than likely BC wasn't around (I am in no way second guessing God) He may have well known that BC would be developed but was praying that His people would use use common sense and not use it.

The God I serve is all-knowing, and has addressed in His Holy Word all of the issues that I need answers for today. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

[Ohiomom2]

You want others to back up their beliefs but when asked to back up your idea that BC was around during the time of Jesus you can't do it. Since we worship the same God (I am assuming that we both view ourselves as Christian) He is all knowing and did tell us a barren womb was a shame so why would any women want to justify making herself barren. He has answered this debate in the Bible, by saying barreness is a consquence of sin and a shame (I am in no way implying that women who are barren due to a physical ailment or other such thing are barren because of sin as I know Christian women who are very devoted to Christ and serve Him in other areas but are still barren and it is those women who are asked to be mothers to all the children and have other ministries for the Lord) as well as adding children are a blessing and heritage and that we should be fruitful and multiply.

[kidsminister]

Okay, the "clear, direct command from God in Scripture" isn't going to be there. At least not if you insist on dismissing the entire bit about Onan. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there isn't a verse that says Thou shalt not use contraception. It isn't there. What is there, repeatedly is that children are a blessing, a gift, barreness a curse, sex is meant for marriage, and our bodies are the temple of God. Why some continue to insist that God wants them to alter the natural function of the body, the main purpose of sex, with pills and devices that can harm the body is beyond my understanding. I guess what's good enough for the world is now acceptable for the followers of Christ.... well, maybe not.

1. I do not "insist on dismissing" the story of Onan. Only pointing out that some people "know for sure" that that story means birth control is a sin. Others "know for sure" that it means masturbation is a sin. Still others "know for sure" that any sexual act between a husband and wife other than actual penetration is a sin.

2. My post was actually clarifiying that I wasn't offended by Wolfman66's joke; that I was just tired of arguing on a fundamentalist board using people's opinions and not actual Scripture. I appreciate the verses you have provided. I don't personally agree with your interpretation of some of them, but at least you (unlike the majority of anti-BC people on this board!) have taken the time to provide something from God's Word, rather than just continue to use your own opinion as gospel truth. Kudos to you ;) ...

3...However,

"I guess what's good enough for the world is now acceptable for the followers of Christ.... well, maybe not."

is the kind of sarcastic remark I was referring to in my last post.

I have said it countless times on this board and will say it one more time: I do not personally use birth control. I went on the pill; it messed me up emotionally; I went off it. Now my husband and I very loosely practice NFP. As in, we try to abstain during ovulation, but if we are "in the mood," we're still going to go for it. If I get pregnant, great. If not, great. Que serra, serra!! Maybe that's TMI, but quite frankly, tough.

It has been implied (not so much by you, TwinCrier, but by others on this board!) that I have no values, that by "supporting" birth control, I am actually supporting the abortion industry, as well as other attacks on my character, simply because I have asked people to provide evidence from God's Word and not just spout off their opinions.

What I see in the light of the kingdom of God is that the world is going to hell and needs Jesus...not my opinion on birth control. My pastor and I were talking about this the other day - why not teach people about Jesus. Give them the truth about the gospel, no holds barred, and trust the Holy Spirit to do His job? It works! I could tell you stories, but they would be completely off topic. Anyway, I digress.

Let's all relax a little...if I could, I'd pour each of you a cappuccino and give you a piece of my homemade biscotti and give you each a cuddly puppy or kitten to pet. Because it's impossible to stay angry or hostile when there's a cute little animal in the room. Seriously. I'm running for President in the next election on the platform, "Puppies for World Peace." My adorable chow/lab mix is going to be my running mate.

Ciao!!

[kidsminister]

You want others to back up their beliefs but when asked to back up your idea that BC was around during the time of Jesus you can't do it. Since we worship the same God (I am assuming that we both view ourselves as Christian) He is all knowing and did tell us a barren womb was a shame so why would any women want to justify making herself barren. He has answered this debate in the Bible, by saying barreness is a consquence of sin and a shame (I am in no way implying that women who are barren due to a physical ailment or other such thing are barren because of sin as I know Christian women who are very devoted to Christ and serve Him in other areas but are still barren and it is those women who are asked to be mothers to all the children and have other ministries for the Lord) as well as adding children are a blessing and heritage and that we should be fruitful and multiply.

Sigh. See my last post.

Can't we all just get along?

No, I don't know FOR SURE, according to the Bible, that BC was around during the time of Jesus. However, I have read historical accounts that seem to imply that the Egyptians and other civilizations used different forms of birth control.

I don't wish to split theological hairs. Have 20 kids if you want. Just raise them all to know Jesus!!

[KristiLee]

:amen: to that!

[e=mv^2]

You want others to back up their beliefs but when asked to back up your idea that BC was around during the time of Jesus you can't do it. Since we worship the same God (I am assuming that we both view ourselves as Christian) He is all knowing and did tell us a barren womb was a shame so why would any women want to justify making herself barren. He has answered this debate in the Bible, by saying barreness is a consquence of sin and a shame (I am in no way implying that women who are barren due to a physical ailment or other such thing are barren because of sin as I know Christian women who are very devoted to Christ and serve Him in other areas but are still barren and it is those women who are asked to be mothers to all the children and have other ministries for the Lord) as well as adding children are a blessing and heritage and that we should be fruitful and multiply.
I am not going to back it up.
There are historic records of Egyptian women using a pessary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pessary) (a vaginal suppository) made of various acidic substances (crocodile dung is alleged) and lubricated with honey or oil, which may have been somewhat effective at killing sperm. However, it is important to note that the sperm cell was not discovered until Anton van Leeuwenhoek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_van_Leeuwenhoek) invented the microscope in the late 17th century, so barrier methods employed prior to that time could not know of the details of conception. Oriental women may have used oiled paper as a cervical cap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervical_cap), and Europeans may have used beeswax for this purpose. The condom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condom) appeared sometime in the 17th century, initially made of a length of animal intestine. It was not particularly popular, nor as effective as modern latex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latex) condoms, but was employed both as a means of contraception and in the hopes of avoiding syphilis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphilis), which was greatly feared and devastating prior to the discovery of antibiotic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic) drugs.
There is one
Although contraceptive techniques had been known in ancient Egypt, Greece, and Rome, the modern movement for birth control began in Great Britain, where the writings of Thomas Robert Malthus (http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0831423.html) stirred interest in the problem of overpopulation. By the 1870s a wide variety of birth control devices were available in English and American pharmacies, including rubber condoms and diaphragms, chemical suppositories, vaginal sponges, and medicated tampons. Easy public access to contraceptive devices in the United States aroused the ire of Anthony Comstock (http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0813136.html) and others, who lobbied Congress until it passed (1873) a bill prohibiting the distribution of these devices across state lines or through the mail. Moreover, in England in 1877, Annie Besant (http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0807289.html) and Charles Bradlaugh (http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0808669.html) were tried for selling The Fruits of Philosophy, a pamphlet on contraceptive methods, written in 1832 by an American, Charles Knowlton. After their famous trial, the Malthusian League was founded. Meanwhile, a variety of contraceptive devices remained available to a large public, usually advertised in veiled but unmistakable language.
Two

Birth Control Timeline (http://my.webmd.com/content/article/71/81244.htm?action=related_link)
3000 B.C.
The condom is invented in Egypt. Ancient drawings clearly depict men wearing condoms - sometimes made of material that may have been animal hide. It's not clear what they were made of -- or whether they were used for sex or ceremonial dress.

1850 B.C.
Meet the pessary. It's the earliest contraceptive device for women. Pessaries are objects or concoctions inserted into the vagina to block or kill sperm. By 1850 B.C., Egyptians used pessaries made of crocodile dung, honey, and sodium carbonate. Crocodile dung is alkaline. But its use, note contraceptive historians Malcolm Potts and Martha Campbell, "perhaps reflects Freudian more than pharmacologic concerns."

600 B.C.
Greek colonists found Celene in North Africa. Soon after, they discover a great treasure: Silphion, reputedly the first oral contraceptive. Silphion was an herb -- thought to be a kind of giant fennel -- that grew only in the area now known as Libya. Despite heroic efforts, it could not be cultivated. Worth its weight in silver, silphion was harvested to extinction by 100 A.D.


Three
A
History and Social Issues of Birth Control (http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761554942_6/Birth_Control.html)

Edit this section (http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/editor/editor.aspx?refid=761554942&s=20)
A variety of birth control methods have been used throughout history and across cultures. In ancient Egypt women used dried crocodile dung and honey as vaginal suppositories to prevent pregnancy. One of the earliest mentions of contraceptive vaginal suppositories appears in the Ebers Medical Papyrus, a medical guide written between 1550 and 1500 bc. The guide suggests that a fiber tampon moistened with an herbal mixture of acacia, dates, colocynth, and honey would prevent pregnancy. The fermentation of this mixture can result in the production of lactic acid, which today is recognized as a spermicide.


four

Would you like for me to continue?

Ok.. Your turn.

[TwinCrier]

Ooh, croc dung and animal intestines, how nice. Almost as tasty as that horse pee we have nowadays. If that doesn't convince you to go off contraceptives, nothing will. So many good things come out of Egypt.

[kidsminister]

Ooh, croc dung and animal intestines, how nice. Almost as tasty as that horse pee we have nowadays. If that doesn't convince you to go off contraceptives, nothing will. So many good things come out of Egypt.

Again with the sarcasm!!

I think that e=m^2 was simply showing that BC was indeed around during the time that the Bible was written, in response to the post that the reason the Bible doesn't mention BC directly is because it didn't exist. Apparently, it did. No one is advocating the use of crocodile dung or animal intestines - it was just a response to a different post.

BTW (a little off topic!), if, when you say "horse pee," you are referring to Premarin for post-menopausal women, that is no longer the case. There is now an artifical means by which they make the medication which produces the same results without the urine. My mother-in-law takes it and was a little creeped out by the idea of ingesting horse pee, and her doctor put her fears to rest :) .

[e=mv^2]

I think that e=m^2 was simply showing that BC was indeed around during the time that the Bible was written, in response to the post that the reason the Bible doesn't mention BC directly is because it didn't exist. Apparently, it did. No one is advocating the use of crocodile dung or animal intestines - it was just a response to a different post.
Exactly. But as I have been called a liar more than once in this thread I figured I would give the evidence at this point.

So many good things come out of Egypt.
Yup.
Mat 2:11-15
(11) And coming into the house, they saw the child with Mary His mother. And they fell down and worshiped Him. And opening their treasures, they presented gifts to Him, gold and frankincense and myrrh.
(12) And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
(13) And when they had departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise and take the young child and His mother and flee into Egypt. And be there until I bring you word, for Herod is about to seek the child to destroy Him.
(14) And he arose and took the young child and his mother by night and departed into Egypt.
(15) And he was there until the death of Herod; so that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the LORD through the prophet, "Out of Egypt I have called My Son."

[TwinCrier]

Cute. But Jesus, like Moses was called out of Egypt because it was a pagan land which was more the point I was going for.

[kidsminister]

Cute. But Jesus, like Moses was called out of Egypt because it was a pagan land which was more the point I was going for.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Jesus and His family fled to Egypt to escape His being killed by Herod.

Not sure what that has to do with the subject at hand...

[e=mv^2]

Cute. But Jesus, like Moses was called out of Egypt because it was a pagan land which was more the point I was going for.
It was a pagan land and there were many many things that were going on there that were bad. We know that because they are condemned in the Bible. We know that there was idolotry and slavery and worshipping of false gods. We know quite alot of the things that were going on based on the account of Moses, who was if you recall very very aware of the practices of the rolyalty which included, GASP!, birth control!
Amazingly enough however, we do not see a comdemnation of the use of birth control even though its use was not only widespread but also very well known.

So why is it that Moses - who was intimately familliar with the goings on in the royalty of the time - condemned so many things and yet forgot to mention that you should not use birth control? He was there - he knew the practices - he wrote down the whole of the law. Why do you suppose that he did not write down the one that Twincrier is ordering everyone to follow?

It is time to stop the pride. It is time to stop the legalism. Where scripture is silent - we should be silent.

[Ohiomom2]

Again with the sarcasm!!

I think that e=m^2 was simply showing that BC was indeed around during the time that the Bible was written, in response to the post that the reason the Bible doesn't mention BC directly is because it didn't exist. Apparently, it did. No one is advocating the use of crocodile dung or animal intestines - it was just a response to a different post.

BTW (a little off topic!), if, when you say "horse pee," you are referring to Premarin for post-menopausal women, that is no longer the case. There is now an artifical means by which they make the medication which produces the same results without the urine. My mother-in-law takes it and was a little creeped out by the idea of ingesting horse pee, and her doctor put her fears to rest :) .

This too may be a bit off subject but I wonder did your mother in law do the research herself on what they put in mediacation. I have been assured that medications such as Nexium will not inhibit pregnancy but while reading the patient insert it does tell that it can inhibit pregnancy. Also most parents don't know what is in the vaccines their kids are getting, I shocked our ped. by telling them they are made with aborted babies. They didn't know this and before I presented my evidence try to tell me otherwise. Now when a dr trys to prescribe something for me I make sure I research it first for myself before trusting them.

[Ohiomom2]

It was a pagan land and there were many many things that were going on there that were bad. We know that because they are condemned in the Bible. We know that there was idolotry and slavery and worshipping of false gods. We know quite alot of the things that were going on based on the account of Moses, who was if you recall very very aware of the practices of the rolyalty which included, GASP!, birth control!
Amazingly enough however, we do not see a comdemnation of the use of birth control even though its use was not only widespread but also very well known.

So why is it that Moses - who was intimately familliar with the goings on in the royalty of the time - condemned so many things and yet forgot to mention that you should not use birth control? He was there - he knew the practices - he wrote down the whole of the law. Why do you suppose that he did not write down the one that Twincrier is ordering everyone to follow?

It is time to stop the pride. It is time to stop the legalism. Where scripture is silent - we should be silent.

If we are going to use Moses as an example perhaps he thought the commandment "Thou shall not murder" to be all ecompassing?

[kidsminister]

This too may be a bit off subject but I wonder did your mother in law do the research herself on what they put in mediacation. I have been assured that medications such as Nexium will not inhibit pregnancy but while reading the patient insert it does tell that it can inhibit pregnancy. Also most parents don't know what is in the vaccines their kids are getting, I shocked our ped. by telling them they are made with aborted babies. They didn't know this and before I presented my evidence try to tell me otherwise. Now when a dr trys to prescribe something for me I make sure I research it first for myself before trusting them.

Um...Premarin is for POST-menopausal women. It's estrogen replacement medication. So there's no chance of preventing pregnancy because pregnancy was already prevented by menopause. My MIL is 59!

I'm sure she did "research" it for herself - She's more fundamentalist than anyone on this board, and does not trust doctors in the slightest. She subscribes to every conservative magazine or newsletter that you could possibly think of, and is always telling my husband and me about some fact that "the liberal media", the government, and/or medical profession is keeping from us.

Back on topic...it is an extreme jump in logic to say that Moses (actually, it was God, but I digress!) said, "Do not murder," and that is related to the issue of BC. While it is argued that all BC pills are abortifacients, other means of birth control are NOT murder. NFP does not kill anyone. Neither do condoms. So is your position, based on that Scripture, that only potential abortifacient methods of BC are wrong, because they could potentially be murder, but that barrier or natural methods are okay?

[e=mv^2]

If we are going to use Moses as an example perhaps he thought the commandment "Thou shall not murder" to be all ecompassing?
Moses was a sinner just like me. The man that put pen to paper writing the law was unable to live by it.

The law is death. Why bring it back?

[e=mv^2]

she's more fundamentalist than anyone on this board, and does not trust doctors in the slightest. She subscribes to every conservative magazine or newsletter that you could possibly think of, and is always telling my husband and me about some fact that "the liberal media", the government, and/or medical profession is keeping from us.

How does paranoia make one more fundamentalist?

Legalism is not a fundamentalist idea and paranoia is not a fundamentalist attribute. Suspicion of others is not a fundamentalist trait. So how is it that this woman is "more fundamentalist?"

[Ohiomom2]

Um...Premarin is for POST-menopausal women. It's estrogen replacement medication. So there's no chance of preventing pregnancy because pregnancy was already prevented by menopause. My MIL is 59!

I'm sure she did "research" it for herself - She's more fundamentalist than anyone on this board, and does not trust doctors in the slightest. She subscribes to every conservative magazine or newsletter that you could possibly think of, and is always telling my husband and me about some fact that "the liberal media", the government, and/or medical profession is keeping from us.

Back on topic...it is an extreme jump in logic to say that Moses (actually, it was God, but I digress!) said, "Do not murder," and that is related to the issue of BC. While it is argued that all BC pills are abortifacients, other means of birth control are NOT murder. NFP does not kill anyone. Neither do condoms. So is your position, based on that Scripture, that only potential abortifacient methods of BC are wrong, because they could potentially be murder, but that barrier or natural methods are okay?

Yes I know what Premarin is. My other dr actually suggested I go on HRT and I am 27 so for me it would prevent pregnancy and I won't go it either. I would have to agree that there is a lot of what the media and government is telling us about medications, hence meds being pulled off the market at times.

I know it was God that handed down that Commandment but I believe someone said Moses and I was refering to that post. No I believe that barrier methods are wrong also, since the other commandment of be fruitful and mulitply as well as having a quiverfull of them would mean that we should not prevent pregnancy in any way.

I know many people do not see it as my husband and I do and that is between them and the Lord and their spouses. Upon my study of Scripture this is my conviction as well as my husband's.

[e=mv^2]

I know it was God that handed down that Commandment but I believe someone said Moses and I was refering to that post.
I was pointing out that Moses was likely very aware of birth control.

No I believe that barrier methods are wrong also
Then why was there no mention of it? Do you think that God forgot to mention it to Moses? Do you think that the law was incomplete?

[TwinCrier]

Again, and hopefully for the last time, Onan is an exact example of birth ontrol, not even one that is physically harmful. If you dismiss bible verses that condemn sin you enjoy, it is still sin. The bible is not ilent on this issue, it screams it loud and clear.
Fertility clnics make big money from tose who insist on micromaagingthis apect of their walk with God. Those cliches like 'let go and let God' or the amous 'WWJD?' get discarded when this issue comes up.

[Silent Enigma]

Wow 29 pages. Looks like we hit a nerve.

For those that oppose any and all birth control, do you offer financial support to those you hope to impart this teaching upon?

[TwinCrier]

Psalms 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

Philippians 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

[twistedsketch]

Meaning God would supply that through YOU or not?

[TwinCrier]

I don't speak for God, you'll have to ask him. Are you saying you have a need that you want me to meet or just getting snarky?

[e=mv^2]

I think that was snark.

Careful tho twin - you are close to saying that poor people are poor because of thier own worthiness. Have you forgotten that the desciples were themselves dependant on the kindness of others?

[Silent Enigma]

I've known a number of "quiver full" families myself. All of them are dependant upon the goodwill of relatives and the state to keep them afloat. I have not seen an exception.

It is rather ironic that those who oppose birth control are often very reliant upon others using birth control--- so that others have the resources to help subsidize their superior beliefs. It's just kind of quirky.

[twistedsketch]

I don't speak for God, you'll have to ask him. Are you saying you have a need that you want me to meet or just getting snarky?
Not snarky, but if people insist on having babies instead of using condoms and get that upset about it when people don't, they should be ready or at least willing to help with the burdens of extra kids.

[e=mv^2]

they should be ready or at least willing to help with the burdens of extra kids.
In the US it does not matter if they are willing to help. If you pay taxes then you are paying to raise someone's kid that they could not afford to have.

Simple truth.

[TwinCrier]

I think that was snark.

Careful tho twin - you are close to saying that poor people are poor because of thier own worthiness. Have you forgotten that the desciples were themselves dependant on the kindness of others?That's why I was asking if there was a need. If anyone here has come on hard times and needs my help, you be sure to let me know.

[TwinCrier]

I've known a number of "quiver full" families myself. All of them are dependant upon the goodwill of relatives and the state to keep them afloat. I have not seen an exception.

It is rather ironic that those who oppose birth control are often very reliant upon others using birth control--- so that others have the resources to help subsidize their superior beliefs. It's just kind of quirky.My experience has been quite the opposite. All the poor people I know who are on wic, get food stamps, and live in trailor parks have 0-2 kids. All the families I know who have 3-9 kids live in a house and provide for their families with little assistance.

[TwinCrier]

Not snarky, but if people insist on having babies instead of using condoms and get that upset about it when people don't, they should be ready or at least willing to help with the burdens of extra kids.I really wish you wouldn't refer to God's children as extra or burdens. It's that whole attitude I am trying to eliminate, especially among those of us who are Christians.

[Mrs. Enigma]

I think children are a blessing. We have 3.
As to the Onan example. That seems like a stretch. He was living in old testament times and the whole purpose of him marrying Tamar was because under the law he was obligated to raise up seed to his deceased brother. He pulled out because the seed would not be raised up for him. He was specifically going against what the law required him to do.
THat seems similiar to saying that we must donate all the money from whatever we sell to God because Annanias was killed. He was killed not because he did not give all he sold, but because he lied about it.
I used to be quiver full and opposed to birth control. Children are a blessing. The Bible says that. But the Bible also talks of a misscarrying womb as a curse.
After misscarrying and almost hemmoraging to death, I think that getting pregnant does not equal the blessing of a baby.
I like the blessings I have and want to put the effort into raising them up as best I can. I also want to be the best wife I can be. I homeschool and stay at home with the kids, so it is definately not that I do not like blessings.
I also do not think it would be a blessing to have to raise your kids on your own cuz your wife hemmorages to death. Yes, God could intervene and get me pregnant again (very easily). I am not aborting babies by taking pills etc.
When I be content with the blessings I have and focus on them, and on respecting my husbands feelings on how many kids he wants- then I am honoring God.
My sister is married to a guy who has 11 siblings and I have 5 siblings, so it is not that I think it is bad to have a large family. You do need a certain personality to handle 10 kids though.

[Silent Enigma]

My experience has been quite the opposite. All the poor people I know who are on wic, get food stamps, and live in trailor parks have 0-2 kids. All the families I know who have 3-9 kids live in a house and provide for their families with little assistance.

That's nifty. I guess each of us have seen the two ends of the spectrum. I knew this one guy who had like 7 kids (maybe 12 by now) and was obsessed against birth control. He didn't like to work too much but he loved to sit around and banter with people about religion. He lived in a bus and would roam around the country stopping at people's places thinking he was a spiritual crusader. Eventually his mom bought him a mobile home in Georgia, tho. Kind of the opposite of the families you know!

[kidsminister]

How does paranoia make one more fundamentalist?

Legalism is not a fundamentalist idea and paranoia is not a fundamentalist attribute. Suspicion of others is not a fundamentalist trait. So how is it that this woman is "more fundamentalist?"

Not saying her paranoia makes her more fundamentalist...just that her views are more fundamentalist than any I've encountered here. And to add to that, she's also paranoid ;) .

[TwinCrier]

That's nifty. I guess each of us have seen the two ends of the spectrum. I knew this one guy who had like 7 kids (maybe 12 by now) and was obsessed against birth control. He didn't like to work too much but he loved to sit around and banter with people about religion. He lived in a bus and would roam around the country stopping at people's places thinking he was a spiritual crusader. Eventually his mom bought him a mobile home in Georgia, tho. Kind of the opposite of the families you know!Not liking to work is a whole different issue, although your description of him sounds like most evangelists.

[fitmom]

Sigh. See my last post.

Can't we all just get along?

No, I don't know FOR SURE, according to the Bible, that BC was around during the time of Jesus. However, I have read historical accounts that seem to imply that the Egyptians and other civilizations used different forms of birth control.

I don't wish to split theological hairs. Have 20 kids if you want. Just raise them all to know Jesus!!

Yes I agree, I have seen documentaries that indicated that birth control was used back in the time of Jesus. I think the reason that that had more kids then is because the methods were not that effective and/or they did not use birth control untill they had many (a wise choice at the time).


My husband and I chose sterilization after we had our two girls. We came to this decision for many reasons, not just one.
I respect Christians who have many children and do not practice BC, and I equally respect Christians who do practice BC. All within the confines of marriage.
It is none of my business, and it is between them and God.

God Bless,J

[twistedsketch]

I really wish you wouldn't refer to God's children as extra or burdens. It's that whole attitude I am trying to eliminate, especially among those of us who are Christians.
Yeah but you've got to admit that kids are hard to raise and some people don't think they're up to the task of raising six kids versus two. Or any for that matter, that's why teenage girls have abortions. The church needs to take the position of being willing and able to help single moms and poor families, especially if birth control is going to be preached against. So that no one can accuse us of being against these people.

And for those who started late in the thread, I hate abortion and would love to see it made illegal.

[Silent Enigma]

Not liking to work is a whole different issue, although your description of him sounds like most evangelists.

That's interesting. Lazy evangelists. You mean those guys that travel around and spend a week at one church, a week at another, and preach a little here n' there?

I also knew another family, pretty similar, big on grand visions but short on practicality (and work!). He had 10 kids and they all lived in his parents house. He was a Mr. Religious I guess.

On the other side my sister-in-law's husband is from a large (12 kid) family, and I've not known them to be moochy. They don't make it on their own, but they're not lazy.

'Course, we've gotten lots of help from people and we've just got 3 kids.

Did you happen to see my wife's post, btw?

[Silent Enigma]

I guess Mrs. Enigma settled it.

Way to go, hon!

[firestar]

I voted anything is acceptable except abortion, and I don't see this as thumbing my nose at God's plan. If it's really God's will for you and your spouse to get pregnant, then you will regardless of what kind of BC you use anyway :shrugs:. yes I *have* heard people who despite the best precautions (pills and condoms) still end up with a baby (I think God has such a sense of humour^_^ ).

[Sabertooth]

What is your view on birth control? Please vote and tell us in here or explain why you voted the way you did. :)

I did not vote on your poll, because even though I believe we are following the ideal, I can't make a case for why we should try to impose it on other couples who have not independently received such a calling and revelation from God, themselves.

There is no grace for this lifestyle unless you are doing so in obedience to the Spirit.

That being said, we have ten children because we told God that we would yield our bodies [Rom 12:1] to Him for however many (or few) lives He wanted to embody. We did not strive FOR pregnancy or AGAINST it. After our tenth, my wife started hemorrhaging, so she got a necessary hysterectomy and that was the end of the line.

[Sabertooth]

Lust control - that is the issue God wants Christians to address.

Spouses are free, even encouraged, to lust for each other, though, certainly, the relationship is to go beyond that.

[Sabertooth]

From a stand point of a man, father, grandfather, and husband, here is my 2 cents.

It seems highly illogical that God would have us be stupid about children. In the modern world, the idea of unrestrained reproduction is personal suicide...

There is no such thing as "unrestrained reproduction," at least not for humans*. No one comes into existence without a purpose, plan and eternal destiny in heaven or hell. Who can a Christian conceive that should not be conceived?

*God clearly ordains us to use such discretion over plants and animals.

[RiverSalado]

I voted "No birth control method is acceptable for Christians." :)

:scratch: :)

[RiverSalado]

I think pretty much any from of birth control within marriage, with the exception of abortion.

[moicherie]

I agree the birth control method which is acceptable for Christians is the one the couple believe God guides them to use. I'm not for imposing what I deem acceptable on others.
I have a necesssary evil attitude to abortion there is not where i am forcing anyone to give birth as a result of rape of other horrible means.

[justcallmejamie]

im cool with birth control

[Erinwilcox]

Answering for my own beliefs, I feel that it is wrong to use birth control. God has commanded men and women to be fruitful and multiply and He has said repeatedly in His Word that children are a blessing from the Lord. Let me ask a question. What would Hannah or Elizabeth have felt concerning birth control? In the Bible, to be barren was a shame. Do you not feel that they would condemn birth control? They wanted children so badly (because they were blessings from God). How is it that in modern culture we feel that children are an inconvenience, an unnecessary bother, or just merely unimportant?

[Svt4Him]

Answering for my own beliefs, I feel that it is wrong to use birth control. God has commanded men and women to be fruitful and multiply and He has said repeatedly in His Word that children are a blessing from the Lord. Let me ask a question. What would Hannah or Elizabeth have felt concerning birth control? In the Bible, to be barren was a shame. Do you not feel that they would condemn birth control? They wanted children so badly (because they were blessings from God). How is it that in modern culture we feel that children are an inconvenience, an unnecessary bother, or just merely unimportant?

Who cares how they felt then, how would they feel if they were right here, having grown up in our culture, with our life experiences, in our social standing, with the same hurts, hopes, teachings? Well, probably like everyone here does. So after you're married and have six to eight kids, then come back and tell me you're still having more.

And why is it that if I only want a certain amount of children, that makes them all of a sudden an unnecessary bother or unimportant?

And are you sure those women wanted babies because they were a blessing from the Lord, or as a social status? Since you made the claim, can you show me the Scripture?

And God has commanded people to be fruitful, He also commanded to sell everything and give it to the poor, then follow Him. So when you've sold everything, where will you and your eight or so kids live? Don't stop at eight though, one lady just had her 16th.

[Erinwilcox]

But where in the Bible does it talk about birth control? Now, where in the Bible does God command men and women to be fruitful and multiply. Also, where does it talk about the Lord opening the womb of the barren and visiting them that they might conceive. Obviously, conception is a blessing from the Lord as well. And, please, notice that I did not say that my views applied to everyone. They were my views as applied to myself and what I would do. Also, Mat 6:33 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat006.html#33) But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.Pro 3:5 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Pro/Pro003.html#5) Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. If I felt that I was obeying God by not using birth control, then I would trust in Him to provide for all of my needs. God rewards obedience with blessings. If God wants me to have sixteen children then I will just have to trust him to provide for sixteen children. Once again, these are my views as pertain to me. I was only answering the poll. Here are the verses that you requested.
Gen 35:11 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen035.html#11) And God said unto him, I [am] God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;


Here are the 6 remaining inexact matches:

Gen 1:22 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen001.html#22) And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

Gen 1:28 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen001.html#28) And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Gen 8:17 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen008.html#17) Bring forth with thee every living thing that [is] with thee, of all flesh, [both] of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.

Gen 9:1 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen009.html#1) And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

Gen 9:7 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen009.html#7) And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.

Gen 28:3 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen028.html#3) And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;
Psa 127:5 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Psa/Psa127.html#5) Happy [is] the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.
Gen 25:21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen025.html#21) And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she [was] barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.

Gen 29:31 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen029.html#31) And when the LORD saw that Leah [was] hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel [was] barren.

Exd 23:26 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Exd/Exd023.html#26) There shall nothing cast their young, nor be barren, in thy land: the number of thy days I will fulfil.

Deu 7:14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Deu/Deu007.html#14) Thou shalt be blessed above all people: there shall not be male or female barren among you, or among your cattle.
Jdg 13:3 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jdg/Jdg013.html#3) And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou [art] barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son.
1Sa 2:21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Sa/1Sa002.html#21) And the LORD visited Hannah, so that she conceived, and bare three sons and two daughters. And the child Samuel grew before the LORD.

[Svt4Him]

But where in the Bible does it talk about birth control? Now, where in the Bible does God command men and women to be fruitful and multiply. Also, where does it talk about the Lord opening the womb of the barren and visiting them that they might conceive. Obviously, conception is a blessing from the Lord as well. And, please, notice that I did not say that my views applied to everyone. They were my views as applied to myself and what I would do. Also, Mat 6:33 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat006.html#33) But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.Pro 3:5 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Pro/Pro003.html#5) Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. If I felt that I was obeying God by not using birth control, then I would trust in Him to provide for all of my needs. God rewards obedience with blessings. If God wants me to have sixteen children then I will just have to trust him to provide for sixteen children. Once again, these are my views as pertain to me. I was only answering the poll. Here are the verses that you requested.
Gen 35:11 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen035.html#11) And God said unto him, I [am] God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;


Here are the 6 remaining inexact matches:

Gen 1:22 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen001.html#22) And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

Gen 1:28 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen001.html#28) And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Gen 8:17 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen008.html#17) Bring forth with thee every living thing that [is] with thee, of all flesh, [both] of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.

Gen 9:1 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen009.html#1) And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

Gen 9:7 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen009.html#7) And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.

Gen 28:3 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen028.html#3) And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;
Psa 127:5 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Psa/Psa127.html#5) Happy [is] the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.
Gen 25:21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen025.html#21) And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she [was] barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.

Gen 29:31 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen029.html#31) And when the LORD saw that Leah [was] hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel [was] barren.

Exd 23:26 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Exd/Exd023.html#26) There shall nothing cast their young, nor be barren, in thy land: the number of thy days I will fulfil.

Deu 7:14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Deu/Deu007.html#14) Thou shalt be blessed above all people: there shall not be male or female barren among you, or among your cattle.
Jdg 13:3 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jdg/Jdg013.html#3) And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou [art] barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son.
1Sa 2:21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Sa/1Sa002.html#21) And the LORD visited Hannah, so that she conceived, and bare three sons and two daughters. And the child Samuel grew before the LORD.

These are not specific commands to all people, they are to a few. But you are trying to tie two things together that aren't related. Is someone who can't have children cursed today? And if these are specific commands, then I also command you to go walk on water and sell everything you have and give it to the poor. Honestly if God tells you to have children and a king will come from them, do it. But if not, and it's not faith, it's sin.

None of these address birth control, and children are a blessing. No one is saying they aren't. But you don't really have authority to tell me how many arrows can fit in my quiver, as God has placed me here, not you. So again, are you going to sell everything and give it to the poor, as I can take a verse like you did to support my case.

[B®ent]

But where in the Bible does it talk about birth control? Now, where in the Bible does God command men and women to be fruitful and multiply. Also, where does it talk about the Lord opening the womb of the barren and visiting them that they might conceive. Obviously, conception is a blessing from the Lord as well. And, please, notice that I did not say that my views applied to everyone. They were my views as applied to myself and what I would do. Also, Mat 6:33 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat006.html#33) But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.Pro 3:5 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Pro/Pro003.html#5) Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. If I felt that I was obeying God by not using birth control, then I would trust in Him to provide for all of my needs. God rewards obedience with blessings. If God wants me to have sixteen children then I will just have to trust him to provide for sixteen children. Once again, these are my views as pertain to me. I was only answering the poll. Here are the verses that you requested.
Gen 35:11 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen035.html#11) And God said unto him, I [am] God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;


Here are the 6 remaining inexact matches:

Gen 1:22 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen001.html#22) And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

Gen 1:28 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen001.html#28) And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Gen 8:17 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen008.html#17) Bring forth with thee every living thing that [is] with thee, of all flesh, [both] of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.

Gen 9:1 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen009.html#1) And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

Gen 9:7 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen009.html#7) And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.

Gen 28:3 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen028.html#3) And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;
Psa 127:5 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Psa/Psa127.html#5) Happy [is] the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.
Gen 25:21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen025.html#21) And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she [was] barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.

Gen 29:31 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen029.html#31) And when the LORD saw that Leah [was] hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel [was] barren.

Exd 23:26 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Exd/Exd023.html#26) There shall nothing cast their young, nor be barren, in thy land: the number of thy days I will fulfil.

Deu 7:14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Deu/Deu007.html#14) Thou shalt be blessed above all people: there shall not be male or female barren among you, or among your cattle.
Jdg 13:3 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jdg/Jdg013.html#3) And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou [art] barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son.
1Sa 2:21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Sa/1Sa002.html#21) And the LORD visited Hannah, so that she conceived, and bare three sons and two daughters. And the child Samuel grew before the LORD.

I agree you you. Well-said. :)

[Erinwilcox]

Svt4Him,

I'm not trying to debate you. I only gave my views. Am I forcing them on you? Or, are you uncomfortable because I backed my beliefs by Scripture? These are my views. I don't want to debate them. I was only sharing them.

[Svt4Him]

Svt4Him,

I'm not trying to debate you. I only gave my views. Am I forcing them on you? Or, are you uncomfortable because I backed my beliefs by Scripture? These are my views. I don't want to debate them. I was only sharing them.

You are not forcing your views on me any more than I am forcing mine on you. Perhaps it makes you uncomfortable that the Scripture you use ignores other Scripture as well, I'm not sure, or perhaps that is something God has spoken to you about, but you can't then use your convictions like they are Scripture. God blessed those people with children, I agree. Children are a blessing, I agree.

[tamtam92]

I didn't vote because i'm not decided on that point. In fact i don't intend to find a solution as i don't think i need one. I just believe that birth control is theoretically useless.

[heatherq17]

I dont think there is anything wrong with being on the pill. But Abortion is another story I feel that its VERY wrong in all ways.

[cshaeffer]

i agree there is nothing wrong with birth control as long as it is being used inside a marriage.....outside marriage sex is not permitted so therefore you should not have to be worrying about controling pregnancy before marriage.....if in marriage i believe that it is the couples choice wheather or not to use birth control. there is no real passage in scripture about it. if there is...let me know

[Ceccia]

But what if, within marraige, the two people have every intention of keeping the emotional, spiritual, and every other aspect of sex but the finances are tight? They'd have every intention of bonding completely, as God intended rather than just treating it like some cheap thrill. The only difference would be they literally cannot afford to support a baby.

Not only that, but what if they just hate kids? I would rather die than have a child, and R. feels the same way. I don't buy into the theory that God wants us to have kids and is going to show me some kind of great blessing through a child. Children make me want to vomit and always have. To a couple that actually wants them, maybe they are a blessing, but to me--no way. My life is challenging and fulfilling enough without that burden.

Financially, we have just enough to provide for ourselves, certainly not enough to raise a child. We could if we went back for second degrees and/or took jobs we hated working 80 hours a week...but why would we do that? Neither of us has any desire to give our lives to caring for a child. We're perfectly content to care for each other, our cats, and our friends and family, and spend time on things that are important to us.

As far as hormonal BC being sinful or murder...ridiculous. If you state that life begins at conception...the pill prevents ovulation. The egg is onyl half of the potential equation; it's not a "life" by any stretch of the imagination. If there is no egg being released, then there is no potential for creating human life. You can't end something that was never created in the first place.

[SoliDeoGloria]

Personally from the principles drawn from Scripture and witness of the entire testimony of Holy Writ, I would subscribe to the traditional Catholic viewpoint that only Natural Family Planning is the ethical way to go (though I am not Catholic).

Yet again I am only human. In an environment where lifestyle is pretty rush-hour and hectic, the quality of life rising and everything else so expensive...to suddenly have so many kids would be very very economically inplausible. I have not enough faith dude.

[jess91877]

Myself personally, I have voted for BC. I have been on the pills for years due to hormonal reasons, even before I became married and active in that way. My body was not producing enough estrogen, the pill contains estrogen which my body needed, so those are the physiological reasons.

As far as a quiver full, and children being a blessing, I fully agree. Personally though, I feel I should not have them and have emotional reasons for not having children. As a children of parents who were abusive I have a tendency to have abusive feelings for children. Because of that, I try to avoid prolonged contact with children. I have surrendered this part of my life to the Lord, but I don't want to have them and risk being nasty like my parents were to myself and my siblings...the dysfunctional family setting is all I know.

I still see it from one generation to the next as my siblings have children, they say they will never be abusive, but the words they say to their children are ten times harsh than any spanking imaginable. They have little messed up lives as a result. I just can't do that to another human life, or risk having that happen.

After much prayer and thought, it still does not weight on my heart to have children...I'm 28, that can change, but I do doubt it.

[crusader4peace]

i think birth control is fine excluding abortion. well times have changed and our earth is too over populated. its better to give 2 kids the best u can offer rather than 7 kids whom u can't provide the best.