My ideal Church

[daverain]

.



The Church is:

anyone who believes upon (or into) Christ.


My ideal 'gathering'

( -NOT- required for SALVATION, by the way)

however would be a 'home group'


(as long there was no 'leadership', but - GOD - )

(With -NO- 'fixed schedule')

(Where people -KNOW- it's -NOT REQUIRED-)

(with a 'maybe I'm hearing the truth, or maybe I'm not' attitude)


Q.)

Where are people -EVER- told to make a 'Sunday Building', and call it a 'church', with some-one who is -NOT- an apostle speaking?

-EVERY- apostle, had 'signs and wonders' present,

-DECLARING- that what they were saying was TRUE

(and that you could -BELIEVE- what they had to say)

Stephen (who was quickly martyred), -ALSO- had 'signs and wonders' following him.

Stephen was among -SEVEN-, who were prayed over by apostles (out of THOUSANDS of other Christians). -ONLY- Stephen (besides the apostles) is mentioned as receiving 'signs and wonders'.

(Stephen's words -ARE- scripture.)


THE BIBLE HAS BEEN WRITTEN.

THERE IS NO MORE MESSAGE.


(Than John 3:16)


Please don't give me: "A perverse and adulterous generation seeks after a sign."

(I said signs -AND- wonders)

(-THAT'S speaking about people who -NEED- a sign to know if God exists, or if JESUS IS TELLING THE TRUTH. I know God exists. I HAVE JESUS, as well.)


The Bible is written.

"It is finished"
-Jesus



Please ask others to:


-CEASE GOING TO 'SUNDAY BUILDINGS'-,

-AND-

-CEASE PAYING CASH-


Then they -MIGHT- see that we're saved by

Christ's shed-precious-blood.






Peace in Christ.




.

[michaeldimmickjr]

.



The Church is:

anyone who believes upon (or into) Christ.


My ideal 'gathering'

( -NOT- required for SALVATION, by the way)

however would be a 'home group'


(as long there was no 'leadership', but - GOD - )

(With -NO- 'fixed schedule')

(Where people -KNOW- it's -NOT REQUIRED-)

(with a 'maybe I'm hearing the truth, or maybe I'm not' attitude)


Q.)

Where are people -EVER- told to make a 'Sunday Building', and call it a 'church', with some-one who is -NOT- an apostle speaking?

-EVERY- apostle, had 'signs and wonders' present,

-DECLARING- that what they were saying was TRUE

(and that you could -BELIEVE- what they had to say)

Stephen (who was quickly martyred), -ALSO- had 'signs and wonders' following him.

Stephen was among -SEVEN-, who were prayed over by apostles (out of THOUSANDS of other Christians). -ONLY- Stephen (besides the apostles) is mentioned as receiving 'signs and wonders'.

(Stephen's words -ARE- scripture.)


THE BIBLE HAS BEEN WRITTEN.

THERE IS NO MORE MESSAGE.


(Than John 3:16)


Please don't give me: "A perverse and adulterous generation seeks after a sign."

(I said signs -AND- wonders)

(-THAT'S speaking about people who -NEED- a sign to know if God exists, or if JESUS IS TELLING THE TRUTH. I know God exists. I HAVE JESUS, as well.)


The Bible is written.

"It is finished"
-Jesus



Please ask others to:


-CEASE GOING TO 'SUNDAY BUILDINGS'-,

-AND-

-CEASE PAYING CASH-


Then they -MIGHT- see that we're saved by

Christ's shed-precious-blood.






Peace in Christ.




.

Why do I get the feeling you have something personal against churches? This is the second post you've made, at least that I've seen against them and against pastors, etc. When Jesus said "it is finished," He was talking about all the prophecies being fulfilled about Himself. Do you not acknowledge the books after Matthew, Mark, Luke or John? Paul talks about Church quite a few times, even telling us how we should conduct it. He may not mention having it in a building, but why focus on something that should be obvious? You say have it in a home, which is fine. Most homes cannot accomodate the amounts of people who want to gather in the name of Jesus. Why create a stumbling block for yourself over a material thing like a building? Stop worring about your needs and focus on Jesus, the author and perfector of your faith! It doesn't matter where we gather anyways, Jesus tells us in Matthew 18:20 that where we gather in His name, He will be there. If you need scriptures backing what I say I will be happy to give them to you. The subject you chose shows me where your heart is, you said my ideal church, I think we need to take the focus off what we want and find out what His ideal church is. Praise God!

Your Brother in Christ,

Michael

[daverain]

.




These modern day DEAD DRY BUILDINGS:
drag Christ's Name through the mud, as it were...



Paul was an -APOSTLE- (with signs and wonders following).

The Bible has been written.

The Message -HAS- been given.

Christ's Sacrifice saves us


( -NOT- going to buildings and paying cash.)

*Overturn the tables.


Peace in Christ



.

[holyrokker]

Isn't a house a building?

Are you saying that believers should gather together only outdoors??

[peacechild4]

Daverain..I have been thinking along the same lines lately.. I just cannot get much at all from the whole church scene.. I feel so disheartened. The body of Christ worries so much about the workings of the body... which is not the bodies job.. the head (which is Christ) is supposed to be what controls the body.. We seem to have a lot of headless bodies running around out there..

I want to learn what Jesus meant when He said..

John 4:24
"God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

[michaeldimmickjr]

.




These modern day DEAD DRY BUILDINGS:
drag Christ's Name through the mud, as it were...



Paul was an -APOSTLE- (with signs and wonders following).

The Bible has been written.

The Message -HAS- been given.

Christ's Sacrifice saves us


( -NOT- going to buildings and paying cash.)

*Overturn the tables.


Peace in Christ



.

You're ignoring my questions to you. :) Show me Biblical support for your stand. If something doesn't line up with God's Word then it's just man's opinion.

Your Brother in Christ,

Michael

[Ginny]

Please ask others to:
-CEASE GOING TO 'SUNDAY BUILDINGS'-,
-AND-
-CEASE PAYING CASH-
Then they -MIGHT- see that we're saved by
Christ's shed-precious-blood.
Peace in Christ.


I can't believe you are asking us to tell others to not got to church as we know it today. If something resembles a modern day church, then they should not go....but if it has 3 bdrms 2 bath and a garage it would be okay?

If it is not the building but the body, then what does it matter where they meet? And if they are not an apostle, like you said earlier...then what difference would it make to meet in a home and have someone give a Bible lesson there?

There is no valid response w/ opposition in regards to the offering issue if God directs (key words here) people to give freely with what GOD HAS GIVEN THEM monetarily.

It seems through your posting that you have had a bad experience with your idea of what church should not be.

[Ginny]

P.S.,

I guess we should throw the book of 1 TImothy away where we read through God breathed words how deacons/ overseers should conduct themselves.

There is no biblical explanation for this reasoning or for the suggestion of meeting in a home vs. church as we know it.

[- DRA -]

.

Please ask others to:

-CEASE GOING TO 'SUNDAY BUILDINGS'-,

-AND-

-CEASE PAYING CASH-

Then they -MIGHT- see that we're saved by

Christ's shed-precious-blood.

Peace in Christ.

.

We are to have authority from the Lord for what we say and do (Colossians 3:17). We have authority for the local church to assemble (Hebrews 10:25). While it is possible for a smaller church to assemble in someone's home, it is NOT practical and may be impossible for a larger group to do this. The command for the church to assemble authorizes a place large enough for the church to assemble -- just as the command for Noah to build the ark of gopherwood would have authorized his use of the necessary tools to build it.

BTW, the local church where I attend also meets on Wednesday nights. Therefore, by your description are we a "Sunday and Wednesday Building Church?"

Christians are ordered (commanded) to give on the first day of the week (1 Corinthians 16:1-2). What do you suggest we do -- NOT give? :eek:

[- DRA -]

.

The Church is:

anyone who believes upon (or into) Christ.



Dave,

You bailed out prematurely on previous discussions about what it takes to be saved.

How do we get "into" and "put on" Christ according to Galatians 3:26-27?

. . . Denny

[daverain]

.




I can't believe you are asking us to tell others to not got to church as we know it today.



If you read my words, you'll see that The Church are: Those who believe -upon- (or into) Christ.

Please don't imply that I'm 'not going to church' (by not going to Sunday Building). I am part of The Church.





.

[daverain]

When Jesus said "it is finished," He was talking about all the prophecies being fulfilled about Himself.



When Jesus said "It is finished.", He was talking about

paying for our sins.


Peace in Christ.

(T.B.C.)

[daverain]

Isn't a house a building?

Are you saying that believers should gather together only outdoors??


My emphesis is that people -NOT- view 'gathering' as a -requirement- for salvation.

Leadership other than - GOD - needs to go as well: "Do -NOT- call -anyone- your leader, for ONE is to be your Leader." -Jesus

(Non-Christians do view 'going to building/paying cash', as a requirement for salvation.)


.

[daverain]

Paul talks about Church quite a few times, even telling us how we should conduct it.

Why create a stumbling block for yourself

Paul talks about groups of Christians (with non-Christians among them).

-THOSE- churches, had -REAL APOSTLES- (all with 'signs and wonders' following) to oversee the teachings (which always got messed up: Read Galatians, to see how The Galatians did this.)

I have Jesus, so No 'stumbling block' can -EVER- keep me from Him.


Peace in Christ.

.

[michaeldimmickjr]

When Jesus said "It is finished.", He was talking about

paying for our sins.


Peace in Christ.

(T.B.C.)

Yes, that was part of it. There was a lot more involved than just that. He meant all the prophecies about Himself.

Your Brother in Christ,

Michael

[michaeldimmickjr]

My emphesis is that people -NOT- view 'gathering' as a -requirement- for salvation.

Leadership other than - GOD - needs to go as well: "Do -NOT- call -anyone- your leader, for ONE is to be your Leader." -Jesus

(Non-Christians do view 'going to building/paying cash', as a requirement for salvation.)


.

I have never heard anyone, ever, say that church is a requirement for salvation but you. How's that for irony? You keep dodging what Paul tells us about some are called, by God to be pastors. I can give you the scriptures again if you would like. How do you think this is helping your Brothers & Sisters in Christ? Paul tells us to avoid arguments such as these. Jesus instructs us to spread the Good News not our own personal opinions. Once again, I challenge you to back up your claims with scripture.

Your Brother in Christ,

Michael

[michaeldimmickjr]

Paul talks about groups of Christians (with non-Christians among them).

-THOSE- churches, had -REAL APOSTLES- (all with 'signs and wonders' following) to oversee the teachings (which always got messed up: Read Galatians, to see how The Galatians did this.)

I have Jesus, so No 'stumbling block' can -EVER- keep me from Him.


Peace in Christ.

.

I've read Galatians. Do you think that the Galatians were the only people to mess up? I think not.

I can tell you have issues against the Church, yet you say it's not a stumbling block. You have issues with tithing, but it's not a stumbling block?

These two things are a reoccuring theme in your posts. But they're not stumbling blocks, no.

Your Brother in Christ,

Michael

[michaeldimmickjr]

My emphesis is that people -NOT- view 'gathering' as a -requirement- for salvation.

Leadership other than - GOD - needs to go as well: "Do -NOT- call -anyone- your leader, for ONE is to be your Leader." -Jesus

(Non-Christians do view 'going to building/paying cash', as a requirement for salvation.)


.

You contradict yourself by saying that non-christians do view it as a requirement for salvation, yet your telling Christians that they in fact view it as a requirement for salvation.

Your Brother in Christ,

Michael

[michaeldimmickjr]

.




If you read my words, you'll see that The Church are: Those who believe -upon- (or into) Christ.

Please don't imply that I'm 'not going to church' (by not going to Sunday Building). I am part of The Church.





.

I want to see scripture, not your words.

Your Brother in Christ,

Michael

[daverain]

Dear Michael, did you have a -specific- question?

(In the mean time: Please re-read my words.T.B.C.)

[michaeldimmickjr]

Dear Michael, did you have a -specific- question?

(In the mean time: Please re-read my words.T.B.C.)

Yes, my question is can you support your belief system against Church & Tithing with scripture?

Your Brother in Christ,

Michael